Dustin May trade regret?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bill "Spaceman" Lee for PAPI? 

Granted, it was decades before he became BIG (he was only three at the time of the trade).

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, tawest said:

More like the Sale to Atlanta for Grissom. Or the Betts to Dodgers for Verdugo, Wong and Downs. Nothing to show for Grissom or Downs and a thankfully a short stint for Verdugo in Boston. Connor had a pretty solid year last year but hasn't found that success this year. 

We also got Fitts & Weissert for Dugo.

[notin]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

We also got Fitts & Weissert for Dugo.

But the thread says we traded away Betts, Sale and Tibbs.  Three very similar deals, too…

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, notin said:

But the thread says we traded away Betts, Sale and Tibbs.  Three very similar deals, too…

Maybe he really thought it was "Tolle."

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Maybe he really thought it was "Tolle."

Doubt it.  Sox42 said it was Tolle, but I think he was just confusing short names.  But even trading Tolle, inadviable as it might be in this case, shouldn’t be classified the same as trading Betts…

[moonslav59]

Just now, notin said:

Doubt it.  Sox42 said it was Tolle, but I think he was just confusing short names.  But even trading Tolle, inadviable as it might be in this case, shouldn’t be classified the same as trading Betts…

It would make more sense if the mistake was this and not a mix up in names.

[tawest]

5 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

We also got Fitts & Weissert for Dugo.

Yep, and both have had positive mound experiences to date. Consistency is key.

[jad]

8 hours ago, notin said:

Clearly. And it worked.  You’ve already forgotten either that Xander and Eovaldi were not traded away or that we were talking about the Sox making bad deadline trades, a topic that doesn’t apply to Sale or Mookie.  
 

But at least you remembered Eovaldi was in another good one…

I haven't forgotten anything.  I just don't  see any significant difference between trading a guy away for nothing or not resigning them at market value.  But apparently, some fans see a CRUCIAL difference here, such that they can claim there is no relation between Betts and Devers and Bogaerts and Nate and Chris  and the Babe of course and every other guy they've managed to get rid of,  and therefore there is absolutely nothing to see here.  Plus, think of what we've gotten back:   a pedophile photographer, a public wanker, a guy who gets pinch-hit for by a .250 hitter, plus all all all that cash.

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, jad said:

I haven't forgotten anything.  I just don't  see any significant difference between trading a guy away for nothing or not resigning them at market value.  But apparently, some fans see a CRUCIAL difference here, such that they can claim there is no relation between Betts and Devers and Bogaerts and Nate and Chris  and the Babe of course and every other guy they've managed to get rid of,  and therefore there is absolutely nothing to see here.  Plus, think of what we've gotten back:   a pedophile photographer, a public wanker, a guy who gets pinch-hit for by a .250 hitter, plus all all all that cash.

Who are these "some fans?"

[FredLynn]

On 8/7/2025 at 9:42 AM, mvp 78 said:

No, I think May sucks and hated the trade when it was made. I don't think Breslow and Bailey think that though. 

I think Breslow threw stool at the wall and wanted to see if it stuck. Just like bums like Boohler etc. This team would be a solid favorite to win at least a pennant if he had done his job and gotten a #2 SP, which is what the need was for the team. He failed. Meanwhile the Mariners have solidified their pen and gotten Suarez and Naylor to compliment a fine pitching staff. They will finish well ahead of the Sox.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

I think Breslow threw stool at the wall and wanted to see if it stuck. Just like bums like Boohler etc. This team would be a solid favorite to win at least a pennant if he had done his job and gotten a #2 SP, which is what the need was for the team. He failed. Meanwhile the Mariners have solidified their pen and gotten Suarez and Naylor to compliment a fine pitching staff. They will finish well ahead of the Sox.

He did get Gio, last year and Crochet, Chapman & Bregman, this year.

$21M on Buehler blew up, so of course that is all you see and write about.

Not many GMs go 10 for 10.

[FredLynn]

11 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He did get Gio, last year and Crochet, Chapman & Bregman, this year.

$21M on Buehler blew up, so of course that is all you see and write about.

Not many GMs go 10 for 10.

I am referring to deadline acquisitions. Yes, he did well to obtain those three during the offseason. It just seems like either you go for it at the deadline (ie improve your chances of making a deep run into Oct) or you are sellers. He sat on the fence two years in a row. Matz has looked decent and may slightly improve our chances; May isn't likely to help. Meanwhile Seattle significantly improved their chances by getting Suarez and Naylor to go along with a very good pitchng staff. I expect they will finish ahead of us.

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

I am referring to deadline acquisitions. Yes, he did well to obtain those three during the offseason. It just seems like either you go for it at the deadline (ie improve your chances of making a deep run into Oct) or you are sellers. He sat on the fence two years in a row. Matz has looked decent and may slightly improve our chances; May isn't likely to help. Meanwhile Seattle significantly improved their chances by getting Suarez and Naylor to go along with a very good pitchng staff. I expect they will finish ahead of us.

In general, it's much less costly to make winter deals- not deadline ones. I had wished we had done more, but I'm more than okay with the full body of work from Brez.

We had about 10-12 SP'er depth and needed every one of them, including the one he traded away (Priester.)

We could have used a 1Bman and a better pitcher(s) than M & M, but gross overpays are just that.

BTW, SEA has traditionally had very good pitching staff, and their home field makes them look even better, but this year, they do not.

19th in fWAR, 16th in FIP & 18th in ERA-, all behind the Sox. How can their GM be that short-sighted????

[FredLynn]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

In general, it's much less costly to make winter deals- not deadline ones. I had wished we had done more, but I'm more than okay with the full body of work from Brez.

We had about 10-12 SP'er depth and needed every one of them, including the one he traded away (Priester.)

We could have used a 1Bman and a better pitcher(s) than M & M, but gross overpays are just that.

BTW, SEA has traditionally had very good pitching staff, and their home field makes them look even better, but this year, they do not.

19th in fWAR, 16th in FIP & 18th in ERA-, all behind the Sox. How can their GM be that short-sighted????

Breslow screwed up at the TD two years in a row. I think that’s pretty obvious. Had he done his job and obtained a #2 SP we likely would have been the favorites in the AL. I’d give him an overall grade of C. Not good enough.

i didn’t realize the Ms pitching numbers weren’t as good as usual-but it’s clear that they significantly improved their team while Breslow did basically nothing. Even he was disappointed. You’re disappointed and so am I. 
He let the players and the fans down.

[moonslav59]

8 hours ago, FredLynn said:

Breslow screwed up at the TD two years in a row. I think that’s pretty obvious. Had he done his job and obtained a #2 SP we likely would have been the favorites in the AL. I’d give him an overall grade of C. Not good enough.

i didn’t realize the Ms pitching numbers weren’t as good as usual-but it’s clear that they significantly improved their team while Breslow did basically nothing. Even he was disappointed. You’re disappointed and so am I. 
He let the players and the fans down.

I think his effort, last deadline, was almost at the level needed. Many of us wanted him to sell, so one could argue he did more than he should/could have done.

The fact that Garcia, Sims and Paxton failed does not make Brez look any better, but he did try, and he did get Jansen. This year, we had a better chance at making the playoffs and going further, and he did less. I'm not arguing Brez did well at the deadline- I just don't tend to choose one of many areas someone does not do well at. (Plus, maybe M & M do better than expected- just as the pitchers we got last summer did worse.)

I think Brez is going about things the right way, in the overall view. Building depth and quality during the winter is the best strategy. Continually grossly overpaying every deadline, as you seem to suggest is a better strategy, is not a good philosophy, IMO. Are there time you need to throw caution to the wind and go against your overall view? Probably, yes, and I do wish Brez had done more. I'm choosing not to hard on it and talk about little else but that one area of his body of work.

He built up a staff that quite honestly should not have needed a deadline deal. He overpaid but did not grossly overpay, this past winter to do just that. The Buehler deal does look like a gross overpay, now, but the Dodgers did offer him the QO. Chapman & Wilson were steals. Bregman was worth it. 

He's built up a solid everyday player group of players that are young, mostly inexpensive and under team control for 3, 4, 5 or more years, except for Bregman and Refsnyder. The farm is solid and now has hopes that pitchers will start falling from the trees.

I agree that obtaining a #2, like Ryan would have made us the AL favorites, and that is no small thing to ignore or sweep under the rug, just because Brez did well, up to the deadline, but GM need to balance the now with the long game. If he fails to land a solid #2, this winter, I will be as critical as you are in this area. We don't know exactly what MIN wanted. If it was Duran or Abreu plus Tolle, I'm not going to blame Brez for saying no. I MIGHT have said yes, butwith extreme reservations. Even if I heard they insisted on Duran or Abreu plus Arias and Sandlin, I would not roast him for saying no, despite me thinking it was a clear yes offer.

You do mention some good things, but it always seems like it's an aside or minimal afterthought. The fact is we are better than we have been since at least 2021 and more leikly 2018, and our extended future looks way better than it did in 2018, when the pending "cliff" was being heavily debated.

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think his effort, last deadline, was almost at the level needed. Many of us wanted him to sell, so one could argue he did more than he should/could have done.

The fact that Garcia, Sims and Paxton failed does not make Brez look any better, but he did try

Yeah, thanks for trying! Great job out there! Everyone gets a trophy now! 

🏆👨‍💼

[mvp 78]

Lucas Sims

'22 9.45 ERA, 5.87 xFIP

'23 3.10 ERA, 5.53 xFIP

'24 4.38 ERA, 5.33 xFIP

'25 13.86 ERA, 7.69 xFIP

This is a guy we're trading for and relying on for meaningful innings? 

Paxton hadn't been able to stay healthy. That he dropped dead after signing here was the least surprising thing ever. Sox couldn't trade him in '23 because he got injured before the deadline. It's like relying on a Cybertruck to take you on the Oregon Trail. 

Garcia was a low leverage guy and had some bad luck. Jansen was a backup catcher with a waning bat. 

These are four guys that aren't going to light a fire under your team and push you through a stretch run. They are the definition of mediocre. 

[Bellhorn04]

13 hours ago, jad said:

I haven't forgotten anything.  I just don't  see any significant difference between trading a guy away for nothing or not resigning them at market value.  But apparently, some fans see a CRUCIAL difference here, such that they can claim there is no relation between Betts and Devers and Bogaerts and Nate and Chris  and the Babe of course and every other guy they've managed to get rid of,  and therefore there is absolutely nothing to see here.  Plus, think of what we've gotten back:   a pedophile photographer, a public wanker, a guy who gets pinch-hit for by a .250 hitter, plus all all all that cash.

They didn't re-sign Pedro Martinez either.  Or Jason Bay.  Or Ellsbury.  Why are you leaving out the guys who did crappy after we let them go?  The answer is pretty obvious.

For the record I abhorred the Betts trade but I liked the Devers trade.  Completely different situations IMHO.

One size doesn't fit all.

 

[moonslav59]

22 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Yeah, thanks for trying! Great job out there! Everyone gets a trophy now! 

🏆👨‍💼

He failed in 2024. I said that. Who came even close to awarding him a trophy?

He tried on the Sale trade, too, and failed. No trophy there, too.

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

They didn't re-sign Pedro Martinez either.  Or Jason Bay.  Or Ellsbury.  Why are you leaving out the guys who did crappy after we let them go?  The answer is pretty obvious.

For the record I abhorred the Betts trade but I liked the Devers trade.  Completely different situations IMHO.

One size doesn't fit all.

Letting Derek Lowe leave was dumb though! I'm not going to get involved with the 20/20 hindsight stuff and whatever. 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

He failed in 2024. I said that. Who came even close to awarding him a trophy?

He tried on the Sale trade, too, and failed. No trophy there, too.

I don't know what he was trying to do there. After years of wanting Bloom to make some moves, Breslow went out and made a horrific one right off the bat. A lot of us were desperate to root for him at that point. 

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I think his effort, last deadline, was almost at the level needed. Many of us wanted him to sell, so one could argue he did more than he should/could have done.

The fact that Garcia, Sims and Paxton failed does not make Brez look any better, but he did try, and he did get Jansen. This year, we had a better chance at making the playoffs and going further, and he did less. I'm not arguing Brez did well at the deadline- I just don't tend to choose one of many areas someone does not do well at. (Plus, maybe M & M do better than expected- just as the pitchers we got last summer did worse.)

I think Brez is going about things the right way, in the overall view. Building depth and quality during the winter is the best strategy. Continually grossly overpaying every deadline, as you seem to suggest is a better strategy, is not a good philosophy, IMO. Are there time you need to throw caution to the wind and go against your overall view? Probably, yes, and I do wish Brez had done more. I'm choosing not to hard on it and talk about little else but that one area of his body of work.

He built up a staff that quite honestly should not have needed a deadline deal. He overpaid but did not grossly overpay, this past winter to do just that. The Buehler deal does look like a gross overpay, now, but the Dodgers did offer him the QO. Chapman & Wilson were steals. Bregman was worth it. 

He's built up a solid everyday player group of players that are young, mostly inexpensive and under team control for 3, 4, 5 or more years, except for Bregman and Refsnyder. The farm is solid and now has hopes that pitchers will start falling from the trees.

I agree that obtaining a #2, like Ryan would have made us the AL favorites, and that is no small thing to ignore or sweep under the rug, just because Brez did well, up to the deadline, but GM need to balance the now with the long game. If he fails to land a solid #2, this winter, I will be as critical as you are in this area. We don't know exactly what MIN wanted. If it was Duran or Abreu plus Tolle, I'm not going to blame Brez for saying no. I MIGHT have said yes, butwith extreme reservations. Even if I heard they insisted on Duran or Abreu plus Arias and Sandlin, I would not roast him for saying no, despite me thinking it was a clear yes offer.

You do mention some good things, but it always seems like it's an aside or minimal afterthought. The fact is we are better than we have been since at least 2021 and more leikly 2018, and our extended future looks way better than it did in 2018, when the pending "cliff" was being heavily debated.

Either you go for it (try to build the kind of team capable of a deep run in the playoffs) or you should sell. Breslow did neither. What this team needed was a #2 SP, a 1B man, and probably a backup catcher. Breslow FAILED to get any of them. There’s simply no other way to look at it. Yes, we can wait until the winter AGAIN to fortify the roster, but as a fan waiting until the winter is getting very very old. The cry of the incompetent is “just wait til next year” is all too familiar to old Sox fans. 
While Breslow has had some undeniable successes this trade deadline was another disappointing FAILURE. Maybe the other teams were asking too much but the bottom line is that he FAILED while other teams succeeded in fortifying their rosters. And we’re stuck with M&Ms.

Not ok.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't know what he was trying to do there. After years of wanting Bloom to make some moves, Breslow went out and made a horrific one right off the bat. A lot of us were desperate to root for him at that point. 

It was obvious, last deadline: 

Priority 1: Do not trade away any very promising prospect or young player for an iffy here and now strategy.

Priority 2: Trade a bunch of borderline or Rule 5 prospects to get the best players possible to meet the needs of the pitching staff and catcher.

Paxton, Simms and garcia all failed. Brez failed at upgrading the staff. He did okay with the Jansen addition.

IMO, he learned a lesson: load up on pitching depth during the winter, when it is easier and less costly, in terms of trade capital needed to offer, so you get to a point where you don't need to trade for 3 pitchers in July, when costs are usually absurdly high.

He did okay, there, but then he traded Priester- another mistake to add to the Sale trade and Buehler signing. Brez has made several mistake- some of them very big, and some of them had some logic attached to them, at the time. That's not saying he deserves a trophy for trying, but failing. 

He's had many more successes in his major choices. You can choose to mention them or not. I think we all are rooting for management to continue the improvement to the point where we are immediate contenders as well as keeping a bright future. Balancing the two is not an easy task, and I think the pressure from the top has been to make the extended future the top priority, despite talking out of the sides of their mouths..

[mvp 78]

Glad he learned the all important lesson "make moves in the offseason too." 

[moonslav59]

On 8/11/2025 at 2:37 PM, mvp 78 said:

Glad he learned the all important lesson "make moves in the offseason too." 

Too bad you don't get it.

[moonslav59]

The hindsight crowd is gonna love this thread.

[Bellhorn04]

8 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

The hindsight crowd is gonna love this thread.

This thread is just another catchall trainwreck so far.  Which is fine.

May stepped up last night, so good for him and good for Breslow.  Hopefully this trade pays off.  I wasn't excited when I heard about it, but I don't think it was a panic move.  I have a bit of faith in Breslow.

[Bellhorn04]

On 8/10/2025 at 8:54 PM, moonslav59 said:

Who are these "some fans?"

Much the same as the "hindsight crowd". 😉

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

This thread is just another catchall trainwreck so far.  Which is fine.

May stepped up last night, so good for him and good for Breslow.  Hopefully this trade pays off.  I wasn't excited when I heard about it, but I don't think it was a panic move.  I have a bit of faith in Breslow.

I think they wanted Ryan AND May. I believe May was in the works ahead of the Ryan deal and was going to get done anyway. It wasn't a "panic move" IMO. 

I'm glad he had a great start last night. The dude has shown a lot of promise in the past. I'm just not confident that the Sox are able to rely on him down the stretch. I'm just seeing a guy similar to Buehler where there will be a great game or two followed by a blowout or two. Having two of those guys in the rotation isn't ideal to me. 

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think they wanted Ryan AND May. I believe May was in the works ahead of the Ryan deal and was going to get done anyway. It wasn't a "panic move" IMO. 

I'm glad he had a great start last night. The dude has shown a lot of promise in the past. I'm just not confident that the Sox are able to rely on him down the stretch. I'm just seeing a guy similar to Buehler where there will be a great game or two followed by a blowout or two. Having two of those guys in the rotation isn't ideal to me. 

It's not ideal, no,  but I think most rotations have a couple guys like that.