Would you move Rafaela into the infield to make room for Anthony?

[Bellhorn04]

17 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Not looking to pick a fight with anyone. Even old hippies with cranky joints still favor peace.

Answering the question: No. I'd move Abreu to another team for a legitimate pitcher.

For a club like the Red Sox with a mostly mediocre defense and pitching staff, I need to keep my best defensive player in the middle of the action in centerfield (staring down at the other top D man, Narvaez).

It's likely Anthony comes up and isn't as good as Abreu this season. But If this Boston team is serious about making the playoffs, it needs more good pitching -- in the rotation and bullpen.

And the outfield surplus obviously presents the best trade chips...

And yet I shudder a bit at the thought of our lineup right now with no Bregman and no Abreu.

 

[Old Red]

24 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And yet I shudder a bit at the thought of our lineup right now with no Bregman and no Abreu.

 

No doubt the lineup is not as good without Bregman, and then it would depend what kind of production Anthony would give to offset Abreu. No doubt the Red Sox need some starting pitching to can go more than 5 innings to give the BP a break. With Bregman, and Abreu in the lineup the Red Sox have hovered around the 500 mark as it is.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

No doubt the lineup is not as good without Bregman, and then it would depend what kind of production Anthony would give to offset Abreu. No doubt the Red Sox need some starting pitching to can go more than 5 innings to give the BP a break. With Bregman, and Abreu in the lineup the Red Sox have hovered around the 500 mark as it is.

And we're .500 with Crochet and Chapman pitching great.  Doesn't mean we want to try playing without them. 

[FredLynn]

16 hours ago, dgalehouse said:

How do they calculate a WAR of 1.8 ? I have no idea. Do you know ? I heard that the geeks scrutinize every pitch of every game. Can that be true ? It sounds kind of insane. And did Rafaela's WAR drop a percentage point with his error and 0-4 today ? I guess baseball has passed me by , but I would still promote Anthony and use Rafaela as a sub. 

I’d definitely move Rafaela. He’s JBJ reincarnated. In this game you have to be able to hit the baseball no matter how good your D is, unless the rest of the team are mashers. And the rest of this team are definitely not mashers.

Bench him

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, notin said:

How is not benching Rafaela to play Anthony a “roster construction” issue?  

Roster construction has been keeping Mayer, and Anthony down in Woo, because Brez doesn’t know how to manipulate the roster to get them to Boston. It took an injury to Bregman to get Mayer in Boston otherwise he’d still be a Woo with Anthony. Masa is still in exile collecting his $18M, because Raffy now has his spot at DH. Once again roster construction. Everyone has been clamoring for Anthony, and Mayer for some time, because they are deemed to be ready, but Brez it seems doesn’t know how to get them there. Call it what you want.

 

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And we're .500 with Crochet and Chapman pitching great.  Doesn't mean we want to try playing without them. 

I get what you’re saying, but the difference is trading Abreu for some badly needed pitching, and replacing Abreu with Anthony may make the team better. Of course that would depend if there was any trade out there for Abreu in the first place that would be worth it to do it. 

[Bellhorn04]

Well, we have 2 of the big 3 on the big team now, so we can certainly focus our complaining on Anthony now.

🙃

[notin]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Not looking to pick a fight with anyone. Even old hippies with cranky joints still favor peace.

Answering the question: No. I'd move Abreu to another team for a legitimate pitcher.

For a club like the Red Sox with a mostly mediocre defense and pitching staff, I need to keep my best defensive player in the middle of the action in centerfield (staring down at the other top D man, Narvaez).

It's likely Anthony comes up and isn't as good as Abreu this season. But If this Boston team is serious about making the playoffs, it needs more good pitching -- in the rotation and bullpen.

And the outfield surplus obviously presents the best trade chips...

Would you trade Anthony and Mayer for Skenes?

[notin]

15 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Well, we have 2 of the big 3 on the big team now, so we can certainly focus our complaining on Anthony now.

🙃

I just don’t see how bringing up Anthony fixes anything.  The Sox can put an OF of Duran/Anthony/Abreu out there but they weaken the defense and still have to start one of Toro or Sogard, and the pitching doesn’t improve.  And the only change is they upgrade the offense from the guy batting 8th? 
 

I suppose they could move Rafaela to 2b and Campbell  to 1b.  But that’s asking a lot of players to play new positions mid-season, and we saw how cranky just one can get.

Not to mention having 3 rookies in the lineup is fairly unpredictable…

[Old Red]

33 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And we're .500 with Crochet and Chapman pitching great.  Doesn't mean we want to try playing without them. 

If the Red Sox are still floundering around the 500 mark come trade deadline Chapman could be good trade bait to like he’s been before.

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

I just don’t see how bringing up Anthony fixes anything.  The Sox can put an OF of Duran/Anthony/Abreu out there but they weaken the defense and still have to start one of Toro or Sogard, and the pitching doesn’t improve.  And the only change is they upgrade the offense from the guy batting 8th? 
 

I suppose they could move Rafaela to 2b and Campbell  to 1b.  But that’s asking a lot of players to play new positions mid-season, and we saw how cranky just one can get.

Not to mention having 3 rookies in the lineup is fairly unpredictable…

When Bregman comes back Mayer will most likely move to 2B if they go through with the KC experiment at 1B. Surprisingly I agree with the rest.🤫

[cp176]

44 minutes ago, Old Red said:

No doubt the lineup is not as good without Bregman, and then it would depend what kind of production Anthony would give to offset Abreu. No doubt the Red Sox need some starting pitching to can go more than 5 innings to give the BP a break. With Bregman, and Abreu in the lineup the Red Sox have hovered around the 500 mark as it is.

I don’t see that they have much to lose here by bringing Anthony up and playing him.  If he produces like he very possibly will, Rafaela either moves to the infield or becomes another defensive specialist.  As for the pitching, with the current Red Sox approach, I’m not sure you are going to find many blue chippers who can go 6,7, or deeper on an 85 pitch limit.  Unless something changes, they are a .500 team at best.

[Old Red]

20 minutes ago, cp176 said:

I don’t see that they have much to lose here by bringing Anthony up and playing him.  If he produces like he very possibly will, Rafaela either moves to the infield or becomes another defensive specialist.  As for the pitching, with the current Red Sox approach, I’m not sure you are going to find many blue chippers who can go 6,7, or deeper on an 85 pitch limit.  Unless something changes, they are a .500 team at best.

Everyone just assumes that RAF Man is going to be the odd man out, and either gets benched, moves to the IF, or is platooned, and that may be how it ends up. It sounds simple enough, but I think if the Red Sox were going to go that route they would have done it already. 

[notin]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Roster construction has been keeping Mayer, and Anthony down in Woo, because Brez doesn’t know how to manipulate the roster to get them to Boston. It took an injury to Bregman to get Mayer in Boston otherwise he’d still be a Woo with Anthony. Masa is still in exile collecting his $18M, because Raffy now has his spot at DH. Once again roster construction. Everyone has been clamoring for Anthony, and Mayer for some time, because they are deemed to be ready, but Brez it seems doesn’t know how to get them there. Call it what you want.

 

It’s a safe bet Mayer wasn’t called up until Cora wanted him and Anthony is staying down because Cora doesn’t.    To say Anthony is being held down because Breslow doesn’t know how to get him in the lineup seems silly; he’s being held down because the OF is working.  Was Breslow supposed to put together a roster with glaring weaknesses at positions played by top prospects?

The “everyone” that’s clamoring are the fans.  Fans might pay the bills, but they have no idea how to run the team.  These are people who often think the backup QB is better, every prospect is an improvement, and their old Little League coach (aka Brett’s dad)  knew more than every MLB manager.  Is anyone in the Sox FO pressuring Breslow to get Anthony on the roster, because that’s what you’re making it sound like is happening…

[notin]

14 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Everyone just assumes that RAF Man is going to be the odd man out, and either gets benched, moves to the IF, or is platooned, and that may be how it ends up. It sounds simple enough, but I think if the Red Sox were going to go that route they would have done it already. 

The problem is Cora likes what Rafaela brings.  He did say he wants him in CF “as often as possible.”  If he still feels that way - and Rafaela has given him no reason not to - I don’t think he’s the odd man out..,

[Bellhorn04]

It's definitely a conundrum how to fit Anthony into the outfield.

If you were really desperate to do it and you don't want to trade Duran or Abreu, you could platoon Duran and Rafaela in center and work from there.  Rafaela could also get some starts in the IF.  Duran could play left when Anthony gets a rest. 

Then you would need Anthony to make all the juggling worth it.  

[notin]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

If the Red Sox are still floundering around the 500 mark come trade deadline Chapman could be good trade bait to like he’s been before.

If they’re still floundering at the .500 mark in July, they’re technically still in it…

[dgalehouse]

The question is, is Rafaela's defense enough to offset his relatively light hitting?  Roman Anthony is looking like a special talent. A very possible star.  He needs to be in the Sox outfield ASAP.  There is no reason to wait any longer.    

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, notin said:

I just don’t see how bringing up Anthony fixes anything.  

My scenario would improve the Sox by making room for Anthony by trading Abreu for another decent MLB pitcher. Anthony might not match Abreu's production, but we all know Sox will be dead by summer if they don't fortify the mound staff.

Unfortunately, a significant trade is unlikely to happen until late-July, when all-in clubs are ready to deal. Until then, the best Brez can hope for, even for Abreu, is probably just a pitching prospect.

But I wouldn't trade two MLB top-10 position player prospects, including the #1-rated overall, for one starting pitcher -- not even Skenes. Not in 2025... arm injuries are too frequent nowadays, especially with younger guys. Teams may think they have six years of control of a pitcher, but front offices realistically hope that's five (and not four).

I wonder if Andrew Bailey would even trade a guy like Josh Reddick for himself today? By age 27 Bailey had 5.9 WAR for Oakland before being dealt to Boston. He pitched until age 33 and finished his career with the same 5.9 WAR.

Reddick was a part-timer in Boston where he earned 1.6 WAR by age 24. After the trade he played another decade, hit 32 home runs once, earned a Gold Glove, and even won a trash-can ring in Houston. He finished with 25 WAR.

[Bellhorn04]

4 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

The question is, is Rafaela's defense enough to offset his relatively light hitting?

That's the kind of question that WAR numbers actually try to answer.  Far from perfect but better than nothing.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

15 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

The question is, is Rafaela's defense enough to offset his relatively light hitting?

Yes. Remember, this is a team that just averaged almost 7 runs per game in a four-game series vs. Baltimore -- and still lost half of them.

Rafaela makes bad pitching mediocre, with spectacular catches on long drives, and laser throws to nail baserunners trying to advance on liners beyond his reach. According to my stats, he's a plus-25 ET (Eye Test).

[notin]

2 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Yes. Remember, this is a team that just averaged almost 7 runs per game in a four-game series vs. Baltimore -- and still lost half of them.

Rafaela makes bad pitching mediocre, with spectacular catches on long drives, and laser throws to nail baserunners trying to advance on liners beyond his reach. According to my stats, he's a plus-25 ET (Eye Test).

I get what you’re trying to say about their offense  relative to their pitching, but that’s a misleading representation.  While they did average roughly 7 runs per game, they only scored as many as 7 in one of those games…

[vegasbob]

14 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

With regard to Rafaela, no chance he should move.  Neither should Duran.  The only questionable outfielder is the platoon player Abreu.  Compare the three on offense

Measure the consistency of the players using 2025 splits

Duran hit .287 in the last 28 days and .284 in the last 365 days

Rafaela hit .241 in the last 28 days and .258 in the last 365 days

Abreu hit .244 in the last 28 days and .248 in the last 365 days

EXCEPT - Rafaela plays against RH and LH pitchers and Abreu platoons

Abreu has had 22 at bats versus LH pitchers and has hit .227 and if they are the starter then .176

Abreu has had 145 at bats versus RH pitchers and has hit .262 and if they are the starter then .267

Obviously, Abreu must stay as a platoon player at best.  He's hitting .208 in May.

Rafaela is hitting .270 in May and Duran is hitting .250 in May.

Because Rafeala is by by far the best outfielder defensively and Abreu is the weakest it's just a matter of time before Abreu goes to the bench or gets traded.  Only an injury to Duran or Rafaela will slow Abreu's decent to the fourth outfielder.

Leave Mayer at 3B and hope he can field better than in the minors, leave Story at SS, leave Campbell at 2B and go get a real 1B who actually has power.  If Anthony is a power hitter then maybe he should be the 1B so Abreu can stay in the line-up against RH pitchers and Refsnyder can play versus LH pitchers.  Hopefully, Bregman recovers quicker than the last time he had this injury.  Without him, this team is a .500 team at best.

 

 

I agree with you on this  assessment.   Of all the people who should be grabbing a 1Bman mitt, it should be Anthony . Give him the practice time in Worcester that Campbell is getting now.   

One , Anthony's fielding upside is apparently not huge, like many Fenway LF'ers.   Two, I don't know yet if Campbell will  be an asset during the remainder of this season .  His ability to adapt his hitting to how he's being pitched will determine that.  The need for a power hitting 1Bman is clear and present.  Yes, Casas will likely be back at ST and be  evaluated, but I think Breslow would move him on to another team at the first request.   Anthony should be considered at 1B .

As others have said,  all of this is so much talk as long as the starters can't finish 5 innings and the relievers are arm weary and of limited effectiveness in late May.

Given Casas' and now Bregman's injuries , look at the lineup.  Heavy reliance on rookies and platoon guys. 

Shout out to Narvaez for singlehandedly curing one deficiency by himself. 

[notin]

16 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

My scenario would improve the Sox by making room for Anthony by trading Abreu for another decent MLB pitcher. Anthony might not match Abreu's production, but we all know Sox will be dead by summer if they don't fortify the mound staff.

Unfortunately, a significant trade is unlikely to happen until late-July, when all-in clubs are ready to deal. Until then, the best Brez can hope for, even for Abreu, is probably just a pitching prospect.

But I wouldn't trade two MLB top-10 position player prospects, including the #1-rated overall, for one starting pitcher -- not even Skenes. Not in 2025... arm injuries are too frequent nowadays, especially with younger guys. Teams may think they have six years of control of a pitcher, but front offices realistically hope that's five (and not four).

I wonder if Andrew Bailey would even trade a guy like Josh Reddick for himself today? By age 27 Bailey had 5.9 WAR for Oakland before being dealt to Boston. He pitched until age 33 and finished his career with the same 5.9 WAR.

Reddick was a part-timer in Boston where he earned 1.6 WAR by age 24. After the trade he played another decade, hit 32 home runs once, earned a Gold Glove, and even won a trash-can ring in Houston. He finished with 25 WAR.

Of course, but the last two Sox position players ranked this high were Yoan Moncada and Andrew Benintendi.  While neither flopped, the two have combined for 30.5 bWAR over roughly 19 seasons.  It’s tough to pull the trigger, but it’s also the safer move.  Especially since Abreu is panning out quite nicely and, as you said, Anthony might even be a step down…

[notin]

5 minutes ago, vegasbob said:

I agree with you on this  assessment.   Of all the people who should be grabbing a 1Bman mitt, it should be Anthony . Give him the practice time in Worcester that Campbell is getting now.   

One , Anthony's fielding upside is apparently not huge, like many Fenway LF'ers.   Two, I don't know yet if Campbell will  be an asset during the remainder of this season .  His ability to adapt his hitting to how he's being pitched will determine that.  The need for a power hitting 1Bman is clear and present.  Yes, Casas will likely be back at ST and be  evaluated, but I think Breslow would move him on to another team at the first request.   Anthony should be considered at 1B .

As others have said,  all of this is so much talk as long as the starters can't finish 5 innings and the relievers are arm weary and of limited effectiveness in late May.

Given Casas' and now Bregman's injuries , look at the lineup.  Heavy reliance on rookies and platoon guys. 

Shout out to Narvaez for singlehandedly curing one deficiency by himself. 

Anthony is a top tier defensive outfit fielder with no infield experience.  Why move him to first, especially with Casas as an unknown for the future?

Why not Duran to the infield?  He played their all through college, which makes him the most experienced of the four outfielders.  Also,despite his speed, Hes clearly the worst defensive outfielder on the team not named Refsnyder…

[vegasbob]

39 minutes ago, notin said:

If they’re still floundering at the .500 mark in July, they’re technically still in it…

That will remain technically true until mid September most likely .  But absent a couple of 10 game win streaks between now and then, this team is digging a deep hole  at the 1/3rd mark.  Many factors which I may list later...or not since they are all in clear sight, even to the Eye-Testers.

[dgalehouse]

57 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

That's the kind of question that WAR numbers actually try to answer.  Far from perfect but better than nothing.

Max is always citing the WAR figure. He said Rafaela is a 1.8.  When I asked him where that number came from, he disappeared. I admit that I have no idea what 1.8 means, other than I guess it means it's better than 1.6. I do know this much: Anthony is hitting .321, with an OPS of .971 in AAA.  Rafaela is hitting .220, with an OPS barely above .600 with Boston. 

[Bellhorn04]

23 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

Max is always citing the WAR figure. He said Rafaela is a 1.8.  When I asked him where that number came from, he disappeared. I admit that I have no idea what 1.8 means, other than I guess it means it's better than 1.6.

It means the answer to your question about Rafaela's defense offsetting his light hitting is yes.

An average WAR for an everyday player over a full season is about 2.0.

[dgalehouse]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It means the answer to your question about Rafaela's defense offsetting his light hitting is yes.

An average WAR for an everyday player over a full season is about 2.0.

The answer is yes according to who and what ? I wrote that I heard this analyst/ analysts ( not at all geeks) actually watches every pitch of every game to arrive at his conclusion of WAR. Notin got upset and said that is not how it is done at all. How do they do it ? I am thoroughly confused. How does one player get 1.8, while another only gets 1.5 ? All I know is that I would take Roman Anthony ahead of Cedanne Rafaela in the Sox lineup. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, notin said:

I get what you’re trying to say about their offense  relative to their pitching, but that’s a misleading representation.  While they did average roughly 7 runs per game, they only scored as many as 7 in one of those games…

Isn't it obvious why I typed that? You confirmed the point I've been making since last season about this Red Sox offense -- 3rd in the AL in runs scored and runs per game -- both this year and last year.

Statistically, the Sox may be highly ranked, but consistently they are just rank -- as in "bad-smelling, having an offensive rancid odor" (pun via vocabulary.com).