Article: Rafael Devers May Actually Play First Base, Eventually

[notin]

1 hour ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Seems like you are fairly negative about Casas' value.  He has a career .800 OPS and 2.0 War in just 251 games and less than 1000 plate appearances.  Don't forget that Casas was a first round pick in 2018.  He made it to the majors from HS in four years while playing in a Major Market.  Kurtz progressed rapidly mostly because he's in Oakland.  Oakland likes bargains and giving them a guy like Casas and maybe someone like Abreu would be enough plus Anthony could replace Abreu so both teams win in the deal.  A 2 for 1 with both players from Boston being well above average and pre-arb makes sense.  Casas has been the 1B of the future since he was drafted so an injury doesn't mean he still isn't the future in Boston unless he is traded away.  Also, while Mayer was drafted 4th as well, he's more injury prone than Casas AND he's never performed as well as Casas in the minors.  Mayer has yet to live up to his ratings. 

You are right they don't need a SS because theirs is light years better than Mayer but they could use their depth at 1B to allow Casas to replace Kurtz long term and then they would add a lefty bat in Abreu who is a GG corner outfielder.  I think Kurtz could be had for those two.  It fits their financial situation better because they are swapping two pre-arb players for one pre-arb AND they have a couple of starting outfielders who are late in their arbitration years.   FYI... Soderstrom is also a pre-arb guy with more experience than Kurtz so I would think he is less likely to be traded thanks to his bat being more proven.

I can't speak for Oakland but their depth does match nicely with our needs so maybe something can be done to make both teams happy.

2.0 bWAR in 251 games isn’t that good.  For comparison, Romy Gonzalez has 1.3 bWAR in only 106 games.

 

Plus Casas is arbitration next year.  Kurtz will still be making the league minimum…

[Duran Is The Man]

On 5/10/2025 at 12:49 PM, TedYazPapiMookie said:

My question for the Red Sox organization is WHO takes responsibility for moving Devers to 1B when he goes down for the rest of season with a shoulder injury or any kind of injury related to him playing a position, he is NOT familar with?  Seriously, this single move could destroy any chance of making the playoffs but going outside to get a legitimate 1B wouldn't ruin the season if he gets hurt.  It just costs a little bit more money to get another 1B.  We have two outstanding hitters on the team in Duran and Devers.  This team can't lose either and still compete for the playoffs.  

My suggestion if this move gets made is that ONE person is held accountable when he gets hurt and is fired for taking such a huge risk for no reason.

 

LOLOL...seriously?

 

[harmony]

37 minutes ago, notin said:

2.0 bWAR in 251 games isn’t that good.  For comparison, Romy Gonzalez has 1.3 bWAR in only 106 games.

 

Plus Casas is arbitration next year.  Kurtz will still be making the league minimum…

Nick Kurtz has six more years of team control while Triston Casas has only three years of control.

Casas is likely to be tendered a contract for 2026 but it's no guarantee.

Casas indeed was a first-round selection with the 26th pick of the 2018 draft but Kurtz was the fourth overall pick of the 2024 draft.

[Maxbialystock]

On 5/10/2025 at 3:55 PM, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Gimme a break.

He could just as easily be injured running the bases or swinging the bat.

Not really.  I agree he could get injured running the bases or swinging the bat, but a possible injury while fielding is additive, not separate.  

If you look at the Sox individual batting stats, you will see Devers is the only Sox player who has been in all 42 games.   That's the value added of a good DH bat--he never gets tired.  In addition, staying as the DH could extend his value to the team.  David Ortiz turned 40 before his last season--in which he played 151 games with 626 plate appearances and a little ol' OPS of 1.021.   

[Maxbialystock]

On 5/10/2025 at 1:45 PM, notin said:

Trade Ceddane Rafaela (-2.4) and Nazzan Zanatello (2.2) for Andrew Vaughn (-4.5) and Jordan Leasure (4.7) Fills a bullpen role, the 1b role and opens LF for Roman Anthony.

The White Sox get a GG center fielder who can play anywhere else until July when the inevitable trade of Luis Robert takes place.  And really if they don’t like Zanatello, I’m open to a dozen other options…

 

 

Love to see Anthony in LF, but right now I'm fine with Duran in LF and Rafaela in CF.  I may change my mind by the All-Star break or later.

More to the point, I see absolutely no reason to make a deal to replace Casas.  When he was hurt his WAR was -0.8.  Losing him didn't hurt one bit.  Sabol has played 2 games at 1b and the Sox won both of them.  And Gonzalez's WAR is +0.4.  

Alternatively, Anthony or Mayer could be asked if they want to take a shot at 1b for Worcester in hopes of getting to Boston.   Both are lefty bats and both are 6'3".  

[Maxbialystock]

3 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Seems like you are fairly negative about Casas' value.  He has a career .800 OPS and 2.0 War in just 251 games and less than 1000 plate appearances.  Don't forget that Casas was a first round pick in 2018.  He made it to the majors from HS in four years while playing in a Major Market.  Kurtz progressed rapidly mostly because he's in Oakland.  Oakland likes bargains and giving them a guy like Casas and maybe someone like Abreu would be enough plus Anthony could replace Abreu so both teams win in the deal.  A 2 for 1 with both players from Boston being well above average and pre-arb makes sense.  Casas has been the 1B of the future since he was drafted so an injury doesn't mean he still isn't the future in Boston unless he is traded away.  Also, while Mayer was drafted 4th as well, he's more injury prone than Casas AND he's never performed as well as Casas in the minors.  Mayer has yet to live up to his ratings. 

You are right they don't need a SS because theirs is light years better than Mayer but they could use their depth at 1B to allow Casas to replace Kurtz long term and then they would add a lefty bat in Abreu who is a GG corner outfielder.  I think Kurtz could be had for those two.  It fits their financial situation better because they are swapping two pre-arb players for one pre-arb AND they have a couple of starting outfielders who are late in their arbitration years.   FYI... Soderstrom is also a pre-arb guy with more experience than Kurtz so I would think he is less likely to be traded thanks to his bat being more proven.

I can't speak for Oakland but their depth does match nicely with our needs so maybe something can be done to make both teams happy.

Oakland has no one remotely as valuable as Abreu.  Plus losing Casas is no big deal.  His WAR was -0.8.  

[TedYazPapiMookie]

4 hours ago, harmony said:

Nick Kurtz has six more years of team control while Triston Casas has only three years of control.

Casas is likely to be tendered a contract for 2026 but it's no guarantee.

Casas indeed was a first-round selection with the 26th pick of the 2018 draft but Kurtz was the fourth overall pick of the 2024 draft.

By adding Abreu Oakland lands two pre-arb players.  Did you even read what I wrote?

If you don't like Casas then it's easy to understand why you think he's worth a lot less than Kurtz but he's an excellent player who hasn't been able to stay healthy like Mayer.  The big difference is Mayer played many years as the fourth pick in the draft and was very average, nothing special.  In 2024 he FINALLY had his first season that resembles what a first rounder should be.  Casas outperformed Mayer all through his comparable seasons in the minors.  So to suggest Kurtz is so special because he was the fourth pick is like suggesting Mayer is and he hasn't been except for one season.  Abreu has been an excellent surprise so to couple them and give the As two guys for one that are young, most people would comprehend why it would be a good deal.  Only a Casas hater would respond like you have.  That's your choice but Casas and Kurtz don't vary that much in talent displayed so far.  Like other first round picks you can call them locks when they aren't.  Recent history shows that Holliday was higher ranked than Kurtz and has flopped so far.  Henderson was also a higher pick and had a great year like Kurtz might have this year and he's struggling now.  The hyperbolic expectations of first round picks significantly overstate the true value of players early in their career.

Sorry that you think so little of Casas.  Other than getting injured, he's done good things for Boston.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

2 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Oakland has no one remotely as valuable as Abreu.  Plus losing Casas is no big deal.  His WAR was -0.8.  

So you agree that Abreu and Casas is a fair trade for Kurtz?  Or are you saying the opposite of the other guy who hates Casas and says it's not enough for Kurtz?  

[harmony]

7 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

By adding Abreu Oakland lands two pre-arb players.  Did you even read what I wrote?

Sorry that you think so little of Casas.  Other than getting injured, he's done good things for Boston.

Assuming Triston Casas is tendered a contract for 2026, Casas will never play  another MLB game as a pre-arb player. Casas will enter the 2026 season with three-plus years of MLB experience.

The Athletics might very well trade Nick Kurtz for Wilyer Abreu and Triston Casas despite Casas' limited trade value.

Baseball Trade Values assigns Kurtz a surplus value of $17.5 million, Abreu $62.3 million and Casas $0.

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades?page=1&q=casas

The A's would likely balk at adding Tyler Soderstrom's $43.7 million value to even out the deal.

[drewski6]

On 5/10/2025 at 11:01 AM, Bellhorn04 said:

Seems like Cora was just floating possible stuff out there, stuff that we latched onto hard the way we do.

Bregman played no 2B in spring games.

Because Devers shoulder hadnt improved enough to warrant putting him in the field.

[drewski6]

On 5/10/2025 at 11:55 AM, notin said:

And I think Devers could refuse in ways that were more understandable.  Like “i dont know how to play first base” or something like that.

But his whole “do they expect me to play every position” sounded too much like a contrived plea for sympathy in a situation where no one was ever going to sympathize, excluding those who have created entire scenarios detailing what Devers was promised and is therefore dutifully owed…

Like becoming a DH even counts as "learning a new position"  - what self-centered spin

[drewski6]

11 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Love to see Anthony in LF, but right now I'm fine with Duran in LF and Rafaela in CF.  I may change my mind by the All-Star break or later.

More to the point, I see absolutely no reason to make a deal to replace Casas.  When he was hurt his WAR was -0.8.  Losing him didn't hurt one bit.  Sabol has played 2 games at 1b and the Sox won both of them.  And Gonzalez's WAR is +0.4.  

Alternatively, Anthony or Mayer could be asked if they want to take a shot at 1b for Worcester in hopes of getting to Boston.   Both are lefty bats and both are 6'3".  

Anthony throws right, though.  Not that I care, Im with you.

[drewski6]

Im with Moon, this has to end with Roman Anthony in the big club. I dont care how you do it, or how much you have to move guys around. Or just slap a 1b glove on Roman, dont care. Get his bat up here, figure it out.

Dont care if the defensive alignment shifts every night either. Thats just baseball in 2025.

Some nights put Bregman at first, some nights Romy, some nights Anthony, some nights Campbell. Whatever. Doesnt have to be done this way, but it wouldnt be crazy for 2025. Keeping guys sharp at multiple positions is a good thing.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

12 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Not really.  I agree he could get injured running the bases or swinging the bat, but a possible injury while fielding is additive, not separate.  

If you look at the Sox individual batting stats, you will see Devers is the only Sox player who has been in all 42 games.   That's the value added of a good DH bat--he never gets tired.  In addition, staying as the DH could extend his value to the team.  David Ortiz turned 40 before his last season--in which he played 151 games with 626 plate appearances and a little ol' OPS of 1.021.   

The amount of injuries players have suffered from playing 1b is pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

And what ortiz did has no bearing on what devers may or may not do.

[mvp 78]

Roman is not moving to 1b. Nobody is trading a valuable 1b this early in the season. 

The two teams that stink have Andrew Vaughn and Michael Toglia playing 1b. All the other teams believe they are still in it. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

On 5/10/2025 at 5:17 PM, notin said:

Are the Red Sox on that list? Cause Devers isn’t getting traded…

And what's to say that the diva doesn't request a trade?

Red Sox-Rafael Devers Potential Breakup Addressed By Insider

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

And what's to say that the diva doesn't request a trade?

Red Sox-Rafael Devers Potential Breakup Addressed By Insider

There is a very near zero percent chance that the Red Sox would make a move this season involving Devers, even with the drama of the season so far.

I mean, that's just what the bad article says? I don't think anyone in their right minds would call Bob NIghtengale an insider either. 😎

[notin]

12 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Love to see Anthony in LF, but right now I'm fine with Duran in LF and Rafaela in CF.  I may change my mind by the All-Star break or later.

More to the point, I see absolutely no reason to make a deal to replace Casas.  When he was hurt his WAR was -0.8.  Losing him didn't hurt one bit.  Sabol has played 2 games at 1b and the Sox won both of them.  And Gonzalez's WAR is +0.4.  

Alternatively, Anthony or Mayer could be asked if they want to take a shot at 1b for Worcester in hopes of getting to Boston.   Both are lefty bats and both are 6'3".  

I think the plan involves keeping both Anthony and Mater in their current positions, as both are top tier defenders.  Mayer will likely be held back until Story has his annual injury.

Grissom, on the other hand, has no real defensive home and might get a chance.  As Grissom is already on the 40 man roster plus has options, it’s a very easy change to undo with no collateral damage (like no one DFAd to get him on the roster).

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

There is a very near zero percent chance that the Red Sox would make a move this season involving Devers, even with the drama of the season so far.

I mean, that's just what the bad article says? I don't think anyone in their right minds would call Bob NIghtengale an insider either. 😎

I'm fully aware of what the article says. What's to say he doesn't request a trade and the sox don't honor it until the offseason?

Why is it a "bad" article, because you don't agree with it?

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

I'm fully aware of what the article says. What's to say he doesn't request a trade and the sox don't honor it until the offseason?

Why is it a "bad" article, because you don't agree with it?

1. It's just quoting a Bob Nightengale article from USA Today. That's 50% of the article. 

2. Nightengale is NOT an insider, making the article clickbait. 

3. This sentence tells me that the whole article is probably AI generated: It would be an absolute shock if the Red Sox ever even considered a request, but something like this does mean something when it comes from an insider of Nightengale's caliber and not just some person on social media making mock trades.

4. The article adds nothing. Just summarizes Bob Nightengale's thoughts and says "wow, this baseball INSIDER said this so we have to listen to him." Nightengale's piece isn't behind a paywall, so what's the point of this article aside from the clickbait?

That's why this and all of the msn articles posted here are worthless. 

[mvp 78]

22 minutes ago, notin said:

I think the plan involves keeping both Anthony and Mater in their current positions, as both are top tier defenders.  Mayer will likely be held back until Story has his annual injury.

Grissom, on the other hand, has no real defensive home and might get a chance.  As Grissom is already on the 40 man roster plus has options, it’s a very easy change to undo with no collateral damage (like no one DFAd to get him on the roster).

Grisson his surviving as a bad ball hitter in AAA. He can't hit velo (anything above 94). He isn't athletic. He probably shouldn't be wasting a roster spot and could be dealt when they need Roman or Mayer. 

[Hitch]

33 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

And what's to say that the diva doesn't request a trade?

Red Sox-Rafael Devers Potential Breakup Addressed By Insider

You love a clickbait link. Why do you waste your time on this crap?

[notin]

10 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

By adding Abreu Oakland lands two pre-arb players.  Did you even read what I wrote?

If you don't like Casas then it's easy to understand why you think he's worth a lot less than Kurtz but he's an excellent player who hasn't been able to stay healthy like Mayer.  The big difference is Mayer played many years as the fourth pick in the draft and was very average, nothing special.  In 2024 he FINALLY had his first season that resembles what a first rounder should be.  Casas outperformed Mayer all through his comparable seasons in the minors.  So to suggest Kurtz is so special because he was the fourth pick is like suggesting Mayer is and he hasn't been except for one season.  Abreu has been an excellent surprise so to couple them and give the As two guys for one that are young, most people would comprehend why it would be a good deal.  Only a Casas hater would respond like you have.  That's your choice but Casas and Kurtz don't vary that much in talent displayed so far.  Like other first round picks you can call them locks when they aren't.  Recent history shows that Holliday was higher ranked than Kurtz and has flopped so far.  Henderson was also a higher pick and had a great year like Kurtz might have this year and he's struggling now.  The hyperbolic expectations of first round picks significantly overstate the true value of players early in their career.

Sorry that you think so little of Casas.  Other than getting injured, he's done good things for Boston.

I’m sure the Athletics would love Abreu.  Ive suggested deals for Soderstrom involving him.  Casas? He’s just not good trade bait.  I mean, you tried to pass of his career bWAR of 2.0 in a season and a half worth of games as an accomplishment;  it’s not.  That’s utility infielder production.

I have doubts Oakland moves Kurtz, and other doubts about how useful he’ll really be in 2025 anyway.  
 

I could see moving Abreu, but I’d actually rather not.  He’s becoming a star player before us. And moving him to get Anthony in the lineup - while acceptable - might also be a step down.

The Sox should get a stopgap 1b.  No one is trading for Casas right now.  Like Casas or not, BTV gives him a surplus value of $0.  For comparison, Nick Kurtz has a surplus value of $44.1 million.  (And Abreu has a surplus value of $64.5million, suggesting  a straight up trade of Abreu for Kurtz is a MASSIVE overpay by Boston).

 

Casas will likely be offered arbitration next year and try again to be the starting 1b in Boston.  Kurtz will start in (Sacramento? Vegas?) for minimum wage for his current low budget team.  And Boston will explore the rental market for a stopgap 1b to fill out the year  Josh Bell? Wilmer Flores? Ty France? Mitch Garver?  Andrew Vaughn? Someone unexciting, but an upgrade nonetheless…

 

Edited May 12, 2025 by notin

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

8 minutes ago, Hitch said:

You love a clickbait link. Why do you waste your time on this crap?

It's just articles related to the thread topic.

[Hitch]

It'll be interesting to see how things continue to play out, especially with Devers having a bit of a statement weekend. 

I'm a little surprised to see how quickly certain parts of the fanbase has turned on him. He did himself no favours with his latest interview, but it's like we've learned nothing from the Duran situation. These guys are not robots and Devers was handled spectacularly bad by the FO and Cora in the leadup to and after the Bregman signing. He was lied to, when all this could have been handled far far better. Yes, he's also not handled it well himself, despite the fair grievances he's got with how it all played out, but this is a guy that has turned up every year, played hurt, got his head down and done what he could for the team, never complained outside of the the way this saga played out. He's not come out of this great, but some of the stuff being aimed at him is pretty unsavory. 

I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't end up playing the position now. Though we really could do with it as we ain't getting anything worth a damn in a trade at this point, he's definitely not getting traded, and Grissom doesn't appear to be the answer as yet. 

[Hitch]

1 minute ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

It's just articles related to the thread topic.

Sure, but you must be able to tell when some of it is worthless? What's the point of brining something in that is obviously fake nonsense? You may as well just make the argument yourself. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

13 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

1. It's just quoting a Bob Nightengale article from USA Today. That's 50% of the article. 

2. Nightengale is NOT an insider, making the article clickbait. 

3. This sentence tells me that the whole article is probably AI generated: It would be an absolute shock if the Red Sox ever even considered a request, but something like this does mean something when it comes from an insider of Nightengale's caliber and not just some person on social media making mock trades.

4. The article adds nothing. Just summarizes Bob Nightengale's thoughts and says "wow, this baseball INSIDER said this so we have to listen to him." Nightengale's piece isn't behind a paywall, so what's the point of this article aside from the clickbait?

That's why this and all of the msn articles posted here are worthless. 

No more worthless than anyone else's opinion on the subject.

Yet there's 8 pages to this thread. Do you consider this thread worthless?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

3 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Sure, but you must be able to tell when some of it is worthless? What's the point of brining something in that is obviously fake nonsense? You may as well just make the argument yourself. 

Exactly how is it "fake nonsense"?

Are you saying that there's zero chance that the diva asks for a trade?

[Hitch]

Just now, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Exactly how is it "fake nonsense"?

Are you saying that there's zero chance that the diva asks for a trade?

Well I'm talking about the continued links you post - some so obviously AI generated, I'm asking what's the point? If you don't know how to spot them, fair enough, but if you do, again, what's the point?

As for this particular post - it literally added absolutely nothing that hasn't been said in here, and offered zero substance. Each to their own, but I don't know exactly what we're supposed to be getting from it? Other than tired. 

As for if he'll ask for a trade - I seriously doubt it. But it's always a possibility. 

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Hitch said:

It'll be interesting to see how things continue to play out, especially with Devers having a bit of a statement weekend. 

I'm a little surprised to see how quickly certain parts of the fanbase has turned on him. He did himself no favours with his latest interview, but it's like we've learned nothing from the Duran situation. These guys are not robots and Devers was handled spectacularly bad by the FO and Cora in the leadup to and after the Bregman signing. He was lied to, when all this could have been handled far far better. Yes, he's also not handled it well himself, despite the fair grievances he's got with how it all played out, but this is a guy that has turned up every year, played hurt, got his head down and done what he could for the team, never complained outside of the the way this saga played out. He's not come out of this great, but some of the stuff being aimed at him is pretty unsavory. 

I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't end up playing the position now. Though we really could do with it as we ain't getting anything worth a damn in a trade at this point, he's definitely not getting traded, and Grissom doesn't appear to be the answer as yet. 

Leading up to the signing, Cora kept saying that he wanted Bregman to be the 2b. They sign Bregman and he's brought in as a 3b. Cora clearly hadn't spoken to Devers about a position change. At the time of signing, Cora and Breslow need to get their heads together and come up with a communication plan for Devers. It seems like they never did. While I'm sure Breslow is a smart guy, he can be an absolute dumbass sometimes when it comes to communicating. Bloom was like that too.