Article: Rafael Devers May Actually Play First Base, Eventually

[notin]

30 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I think what has sailed is the long-term extension.

That’s great.  It also wasn’t what I asked…

[mvp 78]

52 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He's on the 40 and not the 60 Day IL.

He has options, so what is the manipulation? And what for?

Keeping a DH in AAA on rehab because he can’t throw is roster manipulation. They haven’t used an option.

Raffy can’t throw either.

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

That’s great.  It also wasn’t what I asked…

That was MY original point.

[moonslav59]

22 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Keeping a DH in AAA on rehab because he can’t throw is roster manipulation. They haven’t used an option.

Raffy can’t throw either.

Minor league roster manipulation? LMAO!

[Old Red]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Minor league roster manipulation? LMAO!

What would you call it? To say he can’t play, because he can’t throw in the outfield is completely BS. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

3 hours ago, Jasonbay44 said:

It’s s***** articles. It’s like being too lazy to have an opinion or anything so you shared someone else’s opinion. What is the point? The article said a whole lot of nothing and was about as useful as buzzfeed articles written by a random blogger. 

I share my thoughts often, what are you babbling about?

I post the articles to help generate discussion, if you don't like them you can certainly skip them. Nobody is forcing you to read them.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

You did Get me, but why would you want a guy with an 80 game OPS like that?

Because that's typically the type of guy available this time of year.

[Maxbialystock]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

It all blows over and Devers plays 1B at some point down the road. 50/50 he plays this season. 

Why should he play 1b this season?  Since when is having the best DH in the AL a bad idea?  

Neither Ortiz or JDM was ever asked to play a field position full time.   Because he was a DH, Ortiz was still a terrific hitter at age 40, his final season (2016)--151 games and an OPS of 1.061.  

And why is everyone insisting that we need a great hitting firstbaseman when the injured Casas was having a horrible season?  Gonzalez is the answer for 1B.  It's that simple.  

And let's not forget that some combination of Cora and Breslow lied to Devers in spring training.  To me the amazing right now, Mon, May12,   is that playing Bregman at 3b and Devers at DH is working like gangbusters.  Bregman has been fantastic and now so is Devers.  Why oh why mess with success?  

I'll tell you why.  Bregman wants Yoshida to DH because otherwise he is unplayable and getting paid a lot of money.  What pisses me off is that management won't admit that and instead has done all it can to make Devers the bad guy.  

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Devers was told he was going to be the long term 3b. Any proof of that?

Then he's told to throw away his glove that he's going to be DH and won't play the field again. Any proof of that? 

 

[Maxbialystock]

18 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

 

No proof, per se, but a lot agreement that Cora told him he would not need his glove anymore.  He was also told before the Bregman trade that 3b was his forever.  

Frankly, I think right now is just about perfect--Bregman at 3b and Devers the DH.  I do not understand the rush to move him to 1b when he is hitting so well at the DH.  Plus, as I keep saying, Gonzalez is a good fix at 1b.  I also keep saying management wants Yoshida to DH because he's being paid a lot of money to nothing.   

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

1 hour ago, Maxbialystock said:

 He was also told before the Bregman trade that 3b was his forever.  

 

Got a link?

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, Old Red said:

What would you call it? To say he can’t play, because he can’t throw in the outfield is completely BS. 

I would call it silly to call it that.

What's the manipulation? Are they trying to keep open a roster slot on the AAA roster flor Binelas, and for what? It's not like he needs to be kept on the 40 man AAA roster, or we lose him.

I do agree the whole idea of having him work on his D without being on a minor league club as the DH, while he does it is mystifying or "BS" as you call it, but I see no purpose in doing this as a manipulation of a roster slot.

Maybe, I'm missing some rule or reason why it benefits the team by doing this, and if someone points it out, I'll be happy to apologize for calling the "manipulation" aspect "silly."

[Old Red]

51 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I would call it silly to call it that.

What's the manipulation? Are they trying to keep open a roster slot on the AAA roster flor Binelas, and for what? It's not like he needs to be kept on the 40 man AAA roster, or we lose him.

I do agree the whole idea of having him work on his D without being on a minor league club as the DH, while he does it is mystifying or "BS" as you call it, but I see no purpose in doing this as a manipulation of a roster slot.

Maybe, I'm missing some rule or reason why it benefits the team by doing this, and if someone points it out, I'll be happy to apologize for calling the "manipulation" aspect "silly."

Why Masa hasn’t been DH in Boston since opening day is, because of roster construction. Why Masa hasn’t been DH for Woo, or anyone else we are not being told. I’m sure there is a reason, but the Red Sox are keeping everyone in the dark. Call it what you want.

[moonslav59]

33 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Why Masa hasn’t been DH in Boston since opening day is, because of roster construction. Why Masa hasn’t been DH for Woo, or anyone else we are not being told. I’m sure there is a reason, but the Red Sox are keeping everyone in the dark. Call it what you want.

I have no issues with saying that Yoshida does not fit the roster. Yes, it was poor roster "construction" when we signed him.

My point was about the term "roster manipulation." Nobody has explained how that fits this situation.

That term implies something like a fantom IL stint to open a roster slot, keeping a prospect off the 40 to gain an extra year and keep a roster slot open for someone you don't want to lose or to keep roster depth. I'm sure there are other examples, but I don't see any that apply here.

Yoshida has options. Playing on the big club, AAA club or not playing at all has not affected the 40 man or 26 man roster, so what is this so-called "manipulation."

I'm also not sure why the fact that they aren't DH'ing him in AAA while he works on his D is "BS," either, but I won't wait for you to explain.

It seems strange and questionable. I just don't see how roster manipulation or BS fits the situation.

We could have dealt with the roster construction over the winter, but chose not to do it. Calling that BS could make sense, if that's what you meant.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

14 hours ago, notin said:

I’m sure the Athletics would love Abreu.  Ive suggested deals for Soderstrom involving him.  Casas? He’s just not good trade bait.  I mean, you tried to pass of his career bWAR of 2.0 in a season and a half worth of games as an accomplishment;  it’s not.  That’s utility infielder production.

I have doubts Oakland moves Kurtz, and other doubts about how useful he’ll really be in 2025 anyway.  
 

I could see moving Abreu, but I’d actually rather not.  He’s becoming a star player before us. And moving him to get Anthony in the lineup - while acceptable - might also be a step down.

The Sox should get a stopgap 1b.  No one is trading for Casas right now.  Like Casas or not, BTV gives him a surplus value of $0.  For comparison, Nick Kurtz has a surplus value of $44.1 million.  (And Abreu has a surplus value of $64.5million, suggesting  a straight up trade of Abreu for Kurtz is a MASSIVE overpay by Boston).

 

Casas will likely be offered arbitration next year and try again to be the starting 1b in Boston.  Kurtz will start in (Sacramento? Vegas?) for minimum wage for his current low budget team.  And Boston will explore the rental market for a stopgap 1b to fill out the year  Josh Bell? Wilmer Flores? Ty France? Mitch Garver?  Andrew Vaughn? Someone unexciting, but an upgrade nonetheless…

 

You and I have a different perspective on the state of the Red Sox team.  Boston isn't ready for any big playoff run.  There is a decent chance they won't make the playoffs if just about anything goes wrong related to injuries.  The ownership is shaky on whether they would repair any injuries versus send the GM to KMART to seek a player like a 1B.  If Crochet goes down, season over.  If Devers goes down season over.  So my perspective is more of optimism for the future.  That's why Kurtz makes sense because he's a better all around player than Soderstrom to play 1B and he creates a window for success along with many other players that could all gel during one 3 to 5 year stretch.  If you pass on Kurtz because he won't be much different than a healthy Casas or Mayer or Anthony from a hitting perspective that's fair but in 2026 he'll be much better and by 2027 he might be an all-star which can also be said for Campbell and Anthony.  

As we talk about the team today, Abreu is in one of his hot streaks.  He has enormous cold streaks as well so Duran, Rafaela and Anthony look like the future outfield to me despite Cora really liking Abreu.  The outfield depth that Boston has needs to be cashed in during an opportunity to trade and improve the future.  Abreu and Kurtz in a deal really makes the prospect of 2026 and beyond more exciting.  I have no idea how Oakland looks at Kurtz or Abreu so maybe it can't happen but a good GM should be able to find out and add the appropriate extra piece to get Kurtz.  Then all Boston will need is a catcher of the future since Teel is gone.  The first pick this year has 3 very capable catchers of the future so that need might be filled with their first pick.  The plugging of the holes at 1B and Catcher and the addition of Anthony in 2025 should make Boston a very exciting team in 2026 and beyond.  And if Mayer can figure out how to stay healthy and perform at his 2024 level not all the other previous years, Boston will have excellent infield and outfield depth in 2026.

 

[TedYazPapiMookie]

15 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

The amount of injuries players have suffered from playing 1b is pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

And what ortiz did has no bearing on what devers may or may not do.

Why a round peg in a square hole especially after watching 8 seasons of butchery at 3B?  Why not simply find a 1B, maybe a 1B for the future so when Casas comes back all those that don't like him can watch him get packaged in a deal to get us something else we might need at that point in time.

Devers has been observed by Boston scouts, front office personnel, multiple managers and GMs over the 14 years since he was discovered in the Dominican Republic by one of Theo's scouts.  NEVER during that time has he been an adequate fielder.  He's been below league average his entire career.  Who suggests such a bad defender to take over a different position?  That's completely illogical.  Let the guy play DH and never look back on the 8 MLB seasons that he hurt the Red Sox by playing 3B.  

Heck, watch Bregman play 3B ONE DAY and you'll see how much better he is than Devers.  Being loyal to a player is great but you can't hurt the team so he can feel good about himself.  We did that for 8 seasons.  Think about the satisfaction the pitching staff must be feeling knowing that Bregman can catch all those balls Devers never even got his glove on, let alone the ones that bounced off the heel of his glove, his foot, his hand or got thrown past the 1B!!!

 

[Hitch]

17 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Leading up to the signing, Cora kept saying that he wanted Bregman to be the 2b. They sign Bregman and he's brought in as a 3b. Cora clearly hadn't spoken to Devers about a position change. At the time of signing, Cora and Breslow need to get their heads together and come up with a communication plan for Devers. It seems like they never did. While I'm sure Breslow is a smart guy, he can be an absolute dumbass sometimes when it comes to communicating. Bloom was like that too. 

In my experience, the ultra smart analytical men from your Yale's, Oxford's, and the like, all have lower emotional intelligence. You can tell when you're in a room with a Bloom/Breslow quite quickly. Not that they're bad people or anything, just a little detached. Everyone has blind spots. 

[Hitch]

17 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Umm, there's 8 pages that pretty much haven't added anything new. Why do you bother to continue to read and comment on this thread if that's the way you feel?

So what's your argument? That because posters in this thread are not always making up new suppositions that you're well within your rights to post articles that are put together by AI that offer exactly nothing? 

I mean, sure, knock yourself out. I can think of better ways to waste time.

[Hitch]

15 hours ago, vegasbob said:

 

Raffy's ego got bruised when the Red Sox management cumulatively "told' him he wasn't good enough at 3rd base, and signed Bregman.  I always felt he  had a diva attitude but covered it with his strong hitting skills until the shoulder injuries August/Sept 2024.

Why have you always felt he's had a diva attitude? What has he done outside of this season? I can't think of one thing. I can remember all the times he's played hurt however. 

[mvp 78]

 

13 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Why should he play 1b this season?  Since when is having the best DH in the AL a bad idea?  

I wouldn't move Raffy off of DH. I'm just saying what I think the Sox will do.

[mvp 78]

11 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I would call it silly to call it that.

What's the manipulation? Are they trying to keep open a roster slot on the AAA roster flor Binelas, and for what? It's not like he needs to be kept on the 40 man AAA roster, or we lose him.

I do agree the whole idea of having him work on his D without being on a minor league club as the DH, while he does it is mystifying or "BS" as you call it, but I see no purpose in doing this as a manipulation of a roster slot.

Maybe, I'm missing some rule or reason why it benefits the team by doing this, and if someone points it out, I'll be happy to apologize for calling the "manipulation" aspect "silly."

moon, you have a long history of being willfully obtuse. We can point out stuff to you all day long and you'll just ignore it like all of the other times. 

Masa is as healthy as Raffy. Masa is in IL limbo because they just don't believe in him as a player and can't figure out what to do with him. It's the most passive aggressive thing the Sox have done in a long time. "Well, I didn't sign him, so just send him to WOO to rehab or whatever."

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

4 hours ago, Hitch said:

So what's your argument? That because posters in this thread are not always making up new suppositions that you're well within your rights to post articles that are put together by AI that offer exactly nothing? 

I mean, sure, knock yourself out. I can think of better ways to waste time.

AI? It was Bob Nightengale? Is he a robot?

[Old Red]

21 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

moon, you have a long history of being willfully obtuse. We can point out stuff to you all day long and you'll just ignore it like all of the other times. 

Masa is as healthy as Raffy. Masa is in IL limbo because they just don't believe in him as a player and can't figure out what to do with him. It's the most passive aggressive thing the Sox have done in a long time. "Well, I didn't sign him, so just send him to WOO to rehab or whatever."

Moon is always so worried about how something is perceived. Bottom line Masa could be the DH in Boston right now, but he is not. Masa could have been the DH in Boston on opening day, but he was not. Masa could be the DH in Woo, or anywhere else right now, but he is not. You can call the why, and why not anything you want, but it still comes out to the same thing that Masa is in exile collecting his $18M.

[Hitch]

18 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

AI? It was Bob Nightengale? Is he a robot?

Yeah, that article wasn't written by Bob Nightengale. 

This explains a lot. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

13 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

Why should he play 1b this season?  Since when is having the best DH in the AL a bad idea?  That's debatable, Rice has the higher OPS

Neither Ortiz or JDM was ever asked to play a field position full time.   Because he was a DH, Ortiz was still a terrific hitter at age 40, his final season (2016)--151 games and an OPS of 1.061.  What ortiz did at 40 has zero bearing on what devers does.

And why is everyone insisting that we need a great hitting firstbaseman when the injured Casas was having a horrible season?  Gonzalez is the answer for 1B.  It's that simple.  

And let's not forget that some combination of Cora and Breslow lied to Devers in spring training.  To me the amazing right now, Mon, May12,   is that playing Bregman at 3b and Devers at DH is working like gangbusters.  Bregman has been fantastic and now so is Devers.  Why oh why mess with success?  

I'll tell you why.  Bregman wants Yoshida to DH because otherwise he is unplayable and getting paid a lot of money. Why does bregman want yoshi to DH? What pisses me off is that management won't admit that and instead has done all it can to make Devers the bad guy.  

 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

7 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Yeah, that article wasn't written by Bob Nightengale. 

This explains a lot. 

Who cares who wrote it? It was regarding quotes from Nightengale.

And if you hate AI articles, you're in for a rude awakening. I bet at least half of what you read has AI in it and that's only going to increase as time goes by.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

12 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Moon is always so worried about how something is perceived. Bottom line Masa could be the DH in Boston right now, but he is not. Masa could have been the DH in Boston on opening day, but he was not. Masa could be the DH in Woo, or anywhere else right now, but he is not. You can call the why, and why not anything you want, but it still comes out to the same thing that Masa is in exile collecting his $18M.

Shades of rusney castillo.

[moonslav59]

32 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

moon, you have a long history of being willfully obtuse. We can point out stuff to you all day long and you'll just ignore it like all of the other times. 

I always try to answer any and all questions directed to me.

Why not just explain how the word "roster manipulation" fits the Yoshida situation.

He's on the 40. He's not on the 26. We chose not to 60 day IL him (so far.)

It is a mystery why he's not DH'ing on some farm team as he works on building up his arm strength, even if just to add value for a trade, but where is any roster manipulation taking place?

Maybe, I'm nit-picking the term, but I don't see how keeping him off any minor league roster, while he has options is accomplishing anything or allowing us to keep someone else or whatever the "manipulation" is gaining us. If you just explain it, I agree.

Not answering is what seems obtuse, to me.

[Hitch]

39 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

moon, you have a long history of being willfully obtuse. We can point out stuff to you all day long and you'll just ignore it like all of the other times. 

Masa is as healthy as Raffy. Masa is in IL limbo because they just don't believe in him as a player and can't figure out what to do with him. It's the most passive aggressive thing the Sox have done in a long time. "Well, I didn't sign him, so just send him to WOO to rehab or whatever."

I'm not sure that's strictly true. This was Masa's comments 6 days ago - I think there is genuine issue there. 

 

"When I stretch out to 120 feet, that’s when I kind of feel the pain,” Yoshida said. “I’m going to have to let it sit and see how I feel...That’s something that I kind of have to be dealing with throughout the year. At least this year I will have to deal with the pain...

"As far as the hitting, no problem...“But I’m not recovering or making the progress at the pace that I wanted to. Let’s put it that way.”

[moonslav59]

37 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Masa is as healthy as Raffy. Masa is in IL limbo because they just don't believe in him as a player and can't figure out what to do with him. It's the most passive aggressive thing the Sox have done in a long time. "Well, I didn't sign him, so just send him to WOO to rehab or whatever."

This is befuddling, for sure. At least Rusney got to keep playing, and yes, his case was "roster manipulation."

Are they trying to get Yoshida to quit? (Ain't happening.")

I can't see how Yoshida is gaining any trade value by not demonstrating he can still hit. Maybe some team would want him as a DH only player, so the arm is not needed. While any trade would involve pennies on the dollar, it makes sense to move on from him. A 60 day IL stint only prolongs the choice.

Unless we see Devers as a longer term 1B option, we have our DH for more years than our Yoshida control years. Yoshida is not and should not ever play OF for the Sox as long as we still have Duran, Abreu, Anthony, Campbell, Rafaela and Refsnyder. He's like 6th or 7th on the depth chart, depending on it being a lefty or righty pitcher.