Mariners (Woo) vs Red Sox (Crochet): 4/24/25, 1:35pm

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Bregman is the Sox best everyday player and it isn't even close. Where would this mediocre team be without him? Last place I suspect.

Nevers won't be Chris Davis bad, but he'll be bad enough.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, harmony said:

The Mariners were never likely to trade from their starting rotation given their lack of pitching depth and the pedestrian ERA+ of 106 posted by the staff last year.

Well, the rumor was Casas for Castillo, but BOS wanted to include Yoshi. Had the deal not included Yoshi, the savings on the trade would have allowed SEA to sign a good starting pitcher.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Bregman is the Sox best everyday player and it isn't even close. Where would this mediocre team be without him? Last place I suspect.

Nevers won't be Chris Davis bad, but he'll be bad enough.

We will remember this.

[Old Red]

17 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Never.

I wouldn't mind seeing him 4th, but not as a demotion, but for more RBIs. (I also see RHBs Campbell or Bregman as a good fits for the 2 slot.)

Oh no not a demotion! As if being relegated to just being a DH only wasn’t the biggest demotion as it is.🤭

[Bellhorn04]

11 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

That very well may be part or most of the issue.

Others seem to think the shoulder issue is continuing into this season.

That would include me.  It's the most logical explanation for his continued struggles since mid-August.  

[Bellhorn04]

Raffy's OBP of .331 is higher than his SLG of .327.  Unusual.

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Raffy's OBP of .331 is higher than his SLG of .327.  Unusual.

Leading the league will do that for you on one side, and leading the league in K’s helps the other side.

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

That would include me.  It's the most logical explanation for his continued struggles since mid-August.  

You may be right, but i wouldn’t necessarily combine the end of last season when we knew he was hurt to the beginning of this season. He’s definitely swinging hard, but I think his ego has taken a big hit in all of this too.

[Bellhorn04]

There's just no way he's 100%.  A healthy Devers does not slug .327.

Of course with all the fuss about him switching to DH I can understand why people are grasping at that straw too.  

Whichever it is, it's a grim situation.  We're paying $50 million to 2 DHs, one who's doing little and one who's not playing at all.

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

There's just no way he's 100%.  A healthy Devers does not slug .327.

Of course with all the fuss about him switching to DH I can understand why people are grasping at that one too.  

Whichever it is, it's a grim situation.  We're paying $50 million to 2 DHs, one who's doing little and one who's in the minors.

Yes this version of roster construction is not working out to well at the moment. Who knows, but Masa may have better stats as a DH than Raffy if he wasn’t off in exile working on his throwing (wink, wink) to get back into the OF mix. 

[mvp 78]

13 hours ago, Old Red said:

You mean KC in CF today where he almost had a Major run in.

When Cora has a team of veterans, he doesn't seem to get as cute with the roster. I think he's good at managing people. I like his in game moves. I wonder if he's getting handed the lineups from someone else. 

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

When Cora has a team of veterans, he doesn't seem to get as cute with the roster. I think he's good at managing people. I like his in game moves. I wonder if he's getting handed the lineups from someone else. 

It’s possible, but I can’t see Cora as being the type that would be the manager under those conditions of not being able to make out his own lineup.

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Yes this version of roster construction is not working out to well at the moment. Who knows, but Masa may have better stats as a DH than Raffy if he wasn’t off in exile working on his throwing (wink, wink) to get back into the OF mix. 

The offensive lineup is a very weird construction. There are two DH's. There aren't openings for the two spots you have the best prospects in baseball. He should have either traded Casas or Masa as well as Duran or Rafaela. The roster would make more sense. I think having two open spots for 3 prospects can let you rotate them in (especially when Campbell is a 2b/OF guy). 

The pitching has been ok. I think they should have left Dobbins on the roster and not pitched Newcomb again. I don't know what they'll do with Gio because he's looking like butt in MiLB. 

[mvp 78]

Just now, Old Red said:

It’s possible, but I can’t see Cora as being the type that would be the manager under those conditions of not being able to make out his own lineup.

His lineups stink then. 

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The offensive lineup is a very weird construction. There are two DH's. There aren't openings for the two spots you have the best prospects in baseball. He should have either traded Casas or Masa as well as Duran or Rafaela. The roster would make more sense. I think having two open spots for 3 prospects can let you rotate them in (especially when Campbell is a 2b/OF guy). 

The pitching has been ok. I think they should have left Dobbins on the roster and not pitched Newcomb again. I don't know what they'll do with Gio because he's looking like butt in MiLB. 

It sounds like they tried to unload Casas, and Masa to Seattle, but that fell through. I mentioned trading off Duran at his high point at the end of last season, but got a lot of pushback from the big Duran fans on here. Brez has his hands, and plate full on what to do now with Mayer, and Anthony chafing at the bit, and getting itchy down at Woo to come up to Boston.

[Hitch]

Yeah he very clearly did try to trade Casas and Masa. The problem was, he tried to packaging them together in almost every deal by most reports. 

[Bellhorn04]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

His lineups stink then. 

Was your main issue with yesterday's lineup Campbell being in CF?

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

Yeah he very clearly did try to trade Casas and Masa. The problem was, he tried to packaging them together in almost every deal by most reports. 

The other problem is that they didn't have much trade value.  Masa's contract is deep underwater and he was injured to boot.  Casas had an injury-plagued season and he's yet another should-be DH. 

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Was your main issue with yesterday's lineup Campbell being in CF?

Yes for me. Keep his ass at 2B if that’s going to be his position. He needs all the work he can get there. RAF Man has at least been getting some hits lately, and needs to play every day IMO. He had two hits in a game a few games back, and Cora took him out the next game.

[Bellhorn04]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Yes for me. Keep his ass at 2B if that’s going to be his position. He needs all the work he can get there. RAF Man has at least been getting some hits lately, and needs to play every day IMO. He had two hits in a game a few games back, and Cora took him out the next game.

I have a pretty strong feeling that metrics people are dictating a lot of the lineup stuff, and the metrics people do not subscribe to the theory of hot hitters.  A guy could be 6 for his last 8, but if he's not the best matchup for today's starting pitcher, he's out of the lineup. 

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I have a pretty strong feeling that metrics people are dictating a lot of the lineup stuff, and the metrics people do not subscribe to the theory of hot hitters.  A guy could be 6 for his last 8, but if he's not the best matchup for today's starting pitcher, he's out of the lineup. 

And I would give an Iron Sheik response to that. Spit Pewey.

[mvp 78]

22 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Was your main issue with yesterday's lineup Campbell being in CF?

Yes. I think he's not a great fielder to begin with, at least it's not his strength. He needs to stay at one position and develop it while he's learning to be a MLBer. 

With a guy like Mayer, I think you could float him between 2b/SS/3b because he's a naturally gifted fielder. Anthony, I just plop him at LF and never move him again. 

[mvp 78]

15 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I have a pretty strong feeling that metrics people are dictating a lot of the lineup stuff, and the metrics people do not subscribe to the theory of hot hitters.  A guy could be 6 for his last 8, but if he's not the best matchup for today's starting pitcher, he's out of the lineup. 

I don't know, it doesn't seem like he's moved the lineup a bunch. You think they would have made more maneuvers if they were strictly going by metrics. 

[Hitch]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Yes. I think he's not a great fielder to begin with, at least it's not his strength. He needs to stay at one position and develop it while he's learning to be a MLBer. 

With a guy like Mayer, I think you could float him between 2b/SS/3b because he's a naturally gifted fielder. Anthony, I just plop him at LF and never move him again. 

Agreed on all counts. 

If we're bringing up Anthony to play left field, we have Duran who has proven to be a very good CFer.  Leave Campbell where he is. Let Rafaela be utility for this year if need be. 

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Agreed on all counts. 

If we're bringing up Anthony to play left field, we have Duran who has proven to be a very good CFer.  Leave Campbell where he is. Let Rafaela be utility for this year if need be. 

It's three LHB starting OFers, enough to platoon Rafaela somewhere. If he's also backing up IF instead of Hamilton, I'm fine with it. 

[Hugh2]

I understand why some people don't want players switching positions, but I'm more open to it than most. 

For the longest time a team would never entertain a player pitching and hitting, and while someone like Ohtani may be rare, one reason for that is just the sheer fact that once a player goes pro he only focuses on ONE side of the ball. 

Players coming up thru the minors are increasingly playing multiple positions and moving around the diamond.  That type of two way player might be much more common than someone like Ohtani who is a unicorn.  I'd believe that some players might benefit from staying put more than others, but if a team feels a guy has the right mindset to move around the diamond, I'm very open to this becoming more of a norm. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Oh no not a demotion! As if being relegated to just being a DH only wasn’t the biggest demotion as it is.🤭

Moving him to DH was the right thing to do. Having Bregman play 3B was the right thing to do. Promoting Campbell and playing him at 2B was the right thing to do, although playing him in CF over Rafaela had some merit.

Modern line up philosophy says the best hitter bats second, and Devers has something like 4 of our top 5 OPS seasons over the last 4 seasons, so starting him there made sense. The "new" philosophy also highly values the 4 slot, especially for your power guy, so having Devers bat 4th is not really a demotion, and he has hit there very often in his career.

Other than batting 2nd (1660 PAs)

1157 batting 4th

556 hitting 5th

390 6th

319 3rd

144 7-8-9

If he really wants to play in the field, pick up a 1Bman's mitt and take some practice there. Show Cora he is as good as the worst defensive 1Bman in MLB, today (Casas.)

[mvp 78]

15 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I understand why some people don't want players switching positions, but I'm more open to it than most. 

For the longest time a team would never entertain a player pitching and hitting, and while someone like Ohtani may be rare, one reason for that is just the sheer fact that once a player goes pro he only focuses on ONE side of the ball. 

Players coming up thru the minors are increasingly playing multiple positions and moving around the diamond.  That type of two way player might be much more common than someone like Ohtani who is a unicorn.  I'd believe that some players might benefit from staying put more than others, but if a team feels a guy has the right mindset to move around the diamond, I'm very open to this becoming more of a norm. 

I'd be open to it if Campbell was average to above average at these positions. Right now, it's a work in progress. 

[Old Red]

13 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I understand why some people don't want players switching positions, but I'm more open to it than most. 

For the longest time a team would never entertain a player pitching and hitting, and while someone like Ohtani may be rare, one reason for that is just the sheer fact that once a player goes pro he only focuses on ONE side of the ball. 

Players coming up thru the minors are increasingly playing multiple positions and moving around the diamond.  That type of two way player might be much more common than someone like Ohtani who is a unicorn.  I'd believe that some players might benefit from staying put more than others, but if a team feels a guy has the right mindset to move around the diamond, I'm very open to this becoming more of a norm. 

2B has been a Big need for several seasons outside of the year Story played there. Campbell is the 2B now, and he needs all the work he can get there, it surely does him no good as a 2B playing the OF. RAF Man said last year he took him a few games to adjust going back between SS, and CF last year. Just, because guys can play more than 1 position doesn’t mean they have to, or they are better for it, or the team either for that matter outside of injuries happening, and a move is needed because of it. 

[Bellhorn04]

24 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I understand why some people don't want players switching positions, but I'm more open to it than most. 

For the longest time a team would never entertain a player pitching and hitting, and while someone like Ohtani may be rare, one reason for that is just the sheer fact that once a player goes pro he only focuses on ONE side of the ball. 

Players coming up thru the minors are increasingly playing multiple positions and moving around the diamond.  That type of two way player might be much more common than someone like Ohtani who is a unicorn.  I'd believe that some players might benefit from staying put more than others, but if a team feels a guy has the right mindset to move around the diamond, I'm very open to this becoming more of a norm. 

We've also seen recent examples of the moving around thing not working very well at all.

If you've got a guy like Ben Zobrist or, on a smaller scale, Brock Holt, it works, but I don't think guys who can actually do this well are all that plentiful.  Let's see some names, I say!