Article: BREAKING: Red Sox Sign Alex Bregman to 3-Year Contract... With Opt-Outs

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Not trash cans- just other methods, like the ones the Sox used.

You mean methods like the ones the Yankees used in that unsealed letter? 

[Hugh2]

I think reporting the principal value and not the NPV is very misleading, although talking about such things may be boring to most fans. 

Still, I think most people would understand it a lot better if it happened to them.  Imagine your boss coming up to you and saying instead of paying you your $100,000 salary that you're going to get $40,000 this year and $60,000 ten years from now. 

Everyone understands that's a pay cut.  Everyone.  

Granted when the story broke there was no mention of deferred money so we just didn't know.  And we still don't know what the exact cash flows look like, but it is being reported that the AAV of the contract is 31.7

Anyone who understands how the math of TVM works can decipher without the details that SIGNIFICANT cash is deferred in this deal, meaning Bregman is going to be physically paid MUCH less than $40 million this year.  Probably somewhere around $20 million with those AAV.  Maybe even less. 

To each their own, but if you're getting paid $18 million dollars this year, and then $5 million ten years from now.  I don't not find it accurate to say you're getting paid $40 million dollars this year. 

I don't combine my net income from 8 years and go off and tell girls I get paid over a million dollars a year. 

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

False? You asked the last time they had a $30 million dollar man.

They had him, but wouldn't pay to keep him. 

And we all knew someday soon after, they'd pay others -- who weren't as good -- more than that.

We are talking about what the team is paying people. 

[Hugh2]

8 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

False? You asked the last time they had a $30 million dollar man.

They had him, but wouldn't pay to keep him. 

And we all knew someday soon after, they'd pay others -- who weren't as good -- more than that.

We are talking about what the team is paying people.  Contracts. 

 

Didn't mean to double post.  My internet sux

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Who cares about the money? Is it yours? 

It is my money that I spend on NESN and tickets, parking, concessions and souvenirs to take my family to a Fenway experience.

And I'm glad they spent it on Bregman instead of O'Neill. 

[Old Red]

23 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The CBT number is much more important that the flat contract number that has no implications on how the Sox operate as a business. 

As usual going off on a different tangent, and not even what I was talking about. I said it’s the $40M part that is getting talked about on the street. This is just a very small section of the street, and many times oblivious to what goes on in other parts of town.

[mvp 78]

27 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

It is my money that I spend on NESN and tickets, parking, concessions and souvenirs to take my family to a Fenway experience.

And I'm glad they spent it on Bregman instead of O'Neill. 

When they don't spend it on payroll, were you getting a discount? 

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, Old Red said:

As usual going off on a different tangent, and not even what I was talking about. I said it’s the $40M part that is getting talked about on the street. This is just a very small section of the street, and many times oblivious to what goes on in other parts of town.

See, we're all over here talking normally and you're over on your own tangent all together trying to make a point that nobody cares about. If you don't want to talk about CBT and its implications fine, but then don't plan on having any sort of adult conversation surrounding the Sox payroll. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

When they don't spend it on payroll, were you getting a discount? 

No, but I'm finally no longer a student.

The Red Sox didn't offer student discounts when I went to college in Boston in the Seventies.

They didn't even have $1.50 bleacher seats any more once they signed Bill Campbell for a million dollars!

[Old Red]

22 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

See, we're all over here talking normally and you're over on your own tangent all together trying to make a point that nobody cares about. If you don't want to talk about CBT and its implications fine, but then don't plan on having any sort of adult conversation surrounding the Sox payroll. 

Adult conversation?🤭. I hardly ever talk about CBT, because i don’t care about it. You guys are the ones constantly talking about it like you know what’s in the heads of JH on down, and what they will do, and where they are at in regards to the CBT. I read it, but I really don’t care. I still don’t get what going off on a tangent is, or payroll talk either when all I’ve mentioned is that the talk on the street is pretty much all about the $40M figure, and not what it means regarding the CBT.Saying nobody cares means only the small fraction here, and not out on all the different tv, and radio venues, and of course the local BK.

[Bellhorn04]

Sometimes have to agree with the old schoolers like D. Galehouse that baseball has gotten WAY too analytical.  I mean, the Sox just acquired an excellent ballplayer and finally proved they really are serious about competing, and yet there are a lot of negatory comments (and not just here) about the deal, mostly because of roster fit and analytics stuff.

 

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Adult conversation?🤭. I hardly ever talk about CBT, because i don’t care about it. You guys are the ones constantly talking about it like you know what’s in the heads of JH on down, and what they will do, and where they are at in regards to the CBT. I read it, but I really don’t care. I still don’t get what going off on a tangent is, or payroll talk either when all I’ve mentioned is that the talk on the street is pretty much all about the $40M figure, and not what it means regarding the CBT.Saying nobody cares means only the small fraction here, and not out on all the different tv, and radio venues, and of course the local BK.

The $40 million dollar figure is the "word out on the street" because that was the first number reported. 

It doesn't really represent what he's actually being paid this year.  

I can forgive people for not caring about the CBT, but we all love the Sox and that's why we are here to talk about them.  We bring up the CBT because it matters, and while we are NOT in JH head we know precisely how these actions will affect the RED SOX according to the CBT.  By talking about the CBT

We know how much more they will pay in tax.

We know how much they have to spend to lose draft picks.

These things are known.  And whether or not you or anyone wants to admit that bringing up the CBT is relevant we all share are opinions on what the Sox should do, or are doing.  We've all made comments about John Henry be being cheap, wanting, or not wanting to do something.  We've all assumed to be in John Henrys head a time or two. 

You might not care about it, but the CBT is very relevant and it's something I don't think we can ignore if we want to have a spirited, intellectual debate about the Red Sox.   It's too large to ignore. 

 

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Sometimes have to agree with the old schoolers like D. Galehouse that baseball has gotten WAY too analytical.  I mean, the Sox just acquired an excellent ballplayer and finally proved they really are serious about competing, and yet there are a lot of negatory comments (and not just here) about the deal, mostly because of roster fit and analytics stuff.

 

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't really see anyone in here against the deal?

I do know there are Red Sox fans who do not like it. 

[mvp 78]

31 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

No, but I'm finally no longer a student.

The Red Sox didn't offer student discounts when I went to college in Boston in the Seventies.

They didn't even have $1.50 bleacher seats any more once they signed Bill Campbell for a million dollars!

Kind of steep for what they did to Bill Campbell. They definitely road him hard and put him back wet in '77.

 

I was fortunate enough to live in Boston from 97-07 and mostly within walking distance of Fenway. Being able to get Pedro tickets the day of the game (without a dumb app) was always fun. 

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Sometimes have to agree with the old schoolers like D. Galehouse that baseball has gotten WAY too analytical.  I mean, the Sox just acquired an excellent ballplayer and finally proved they really are serious about competing, and yet there are a lot of negatory comments (and not just here) about the deal, mostly because of roster fit and analytics stuff.

 

I think he's a good player. I just want him at 3B rather than 2B so that one of the best Sox prospects we've ever seen has a chance to take over at 2B. I have no problem with the contract at all. Glad it's only for 3 years. 

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't really see anyone in here against the deal?

I do know there are Red Sox fans who do not like it. 

Seems like more "old school types" are against it to me? 

[notin]

48 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

When they don't spend it on payroll, were you getting a discount? 

Cash back offer.  You didn’t get yours last year?

[notin]

9 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Sometimes have to agree with the old schoolers like D. Galehouse that baseball has gotten WAY too analytical.  I mean, the Sox just acquired an excellent ballplayer and finally proved they really are serious about competing, and yet there are a lot of negatory comments (and not just here) about the deal, mostly because of roster fit and analytics stuff.

 

I predicted Bregman, but I’m not a huge Bregman fan.

But I like this deal.  First of all, despite my frugal tendencies, I have always said the years are more dangerous than the dollars.  Three years?  I’m in.

Second, it’s good to see SOME spending.

Third, while he reportedly is slated for 2b, it’s not etched in stone and he might take over 3b and help a porous defense.  The Sox have significant position player depth right now, enough to withstand injuries without immediately resorting to Dominic Smith types.

Would I still like another bullpen arm and a platoon partner for Abreu with a semi-decent glove? Absolutely, but this is a much bigger step in the right direction…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

False? You asked the last time they had a $30 million dollar man.

They had him, but wouldn't pay to keep him. 

And we all knew someday soon after, they'd pay others -- who weren't as good -- more than that.

We also paid Devers $30M.

[notin]

27 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Adult conversation?🤭. I hardly ever talk about CBT, because i don’t care about it. You guys are the ones constantly talking about it like you know what’s in the heads of JH on down, and what they will do, and where they are at in regards to the CBT. I read it, but I really don’t care. I still don’t get what going off on a tangent is, or payroll talk either when all I’ve mentioned is that the talk on the street is pretty much all about the $40M figure, and not what it means regarding the CBT.Saying nobody cares means only the small fraction here, and not out on all the different tv, and radio venues, and of course the local BK.

Well, that’s not really true.

You might not use the CBT acronym, but you (like most) express payroll concerns, which is the exact same thing on a less technical level.  If the Sox pay Player X less money, they can spend more on Player Y.  It’s all the same thing, just one is more accountant-y.  

 

Of course lately, the Sox have eschewed Players X and Y and gone directly for Player Z on a one year deal, two years if Z is recovering from TJ.

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, notin said:

Cash back offer.  You didn’t get yours last year?

Maybe they sent it to my old address in MA? 

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

We also paid Devers $30M.

$30M for someone to play a kids game?!?!?!? Are you friggin' kiddin' me dood? 

[Hugh2]

16 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Seems like more "old school types" are against it to me? 

I don't really know who specifically is against it but I know the type. 

Unless they sign a specific player, who is always very good, and only at a specific price that said player would never sign, they will be unhappy.  

For example. 

If the Sox signed Soto to $770 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed Corbin Burnes to $215 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed Blake Snell to $187 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed Max Fried to $223 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed William Adames for $187 million dollars it would be too much.

It's funny......who decides what is too much and not too much? 30 million is too much for a player but 20 million wouldn't be according to whom?

Then they turn around and don't want to argue the details, like WAR, Defense, stats, potential, the Luxury Tax etc. etc.  I think some people just like to complain.

Lets hope they have less to complain about this year. 

[notin]

23 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think he's a good player. I just want him at 3B rather than 2B so that one of the best Sox prospects we've ever seen has a chance to take over at 2B. I have no problem with the contract at all. Glad it's only for 3 years. 

I think Bregman will eventually find his way to 3b and Campbell will get his reps. 

[notin]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I don't really know who specifically is against it but I know the type. 

Unless they sign a specific player, who is always very good, and only at a specific price that said player would never sign, they will be unhappy.  

For example. 

If the Sox signed Soto to $770 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed Corbin Burnes to $215 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed Blake Snell to $187 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed Max Fried to $223 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed William Adames for $187 million dollars it would be too much.

It's funny......who decides what is too much and not too much? 30 million is too much for a player but 20 million wouldn't be according to whom?

Then they turn around and don't want to argue the details, like WAR, Defense, stats, potential, the Luxury Tax etc. etc.  I think some people just like to complain.

Let’s hope they have less to complain about this year. 

“I want the Sox to spend!!”

“I want the Sox to spend!!”

“I want the Sox to spend!!”

“Not on that guy!!”

 

I criticize the spending as much as anyone, at least until recently.  But it’s not like tickets get cheaper if payroll is down.  And haven’t some been calling for a Fenway Boycott until they spend?  Your prayers have been answered…

[Hugh2]

22 minutes ago, notin said:

I predicted Bregman, but I’m not a huge Bregman fan.

But I like this deal.  First of all, despite my frugal tendencies, I have always said the years are more dangerous than the dollars.  Three years?  I’m in.

Second, it’s good to see SOME spending.

Third, while he reportedly is slated for 2b, it’s not etched in stone and he might take over 3b and help a porous defense.  The Sox have significant position player depth right now, enough to withstand injuries without immediately resorting to Dominic Smith types.

Would I still like another bullpen arm and a platoon partner for Abreu with a semi-decent glove? Absolutely, but this is a much bigger step in the right direction…

No faith in Refsnyder?

[Old Red]

58 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

The $40 million dollar figure is the "word out on the street" because that was the first number reported. 

It doesn't really represent what he's actually being paid this year.  

I can forgive people for not caring about the CBT, but we all love the Sox and that's why we are here to talk about them.  We bring up the CBT because it matters, and while we are NOT in JH head we know precisely how these actions will affect the RED SOX according to the CBT.  By talking about the CBT

We know how much more they will pay in tax.

We know how much they have to spend to lose draft picks.

These things are known.  And whether or not you or anyone wants to admit that bringing up the CBT is relevant we all share are opinions on what the Sox should do, or are doing.  We've all made comments about John Henry be being cheap, wanting, or not wanting to do something.  We've all assumed to be in John Henrys head a time or two. 

You might not care about it, but the CBT is very relevant and it's something I don't think we can ignore if we want to have a spirited, intellectual debate about the Red Sox.   It's too large to ignore. 

 

There all different levels of fans so when I say the $40M figure is what’s talked about most out on the street it’s, because that’s the first figure reported, and the only figure that some care about. Not everyone is in to all the CBT talk, or even care how everything is broken down. Like I said different levels of fans have different levels of interest in each, and every point. or lack of. That’s what not everyone understands, or wants to. Different levels have different needs whether it’s CBT, stats, or anything else. What’s good for one might not be for another, and vice versa, and no one is going to change.

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Seems like more "old school types" are against it to me? 

This “ old school type “ isn’t against it at all. I think it’s an overpayment, but I  like the signing. Like I heard one fan say yesterday it’s not like the Red Sox signed  Mike Schmidt in his prime, or Manny Ramirez, so my enthusiasm is just tempered down some than most.

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

I don't really know who specifically is against it but I know the type. 

Unless they sign a specific player, who is always very good, and only at a specific price that said player would never sign, they will be unhappy.  

For example. 

If the Sox signed Soto to $770 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed Corbin Burnes to $215 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed Blake Snell to $187 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed Max Fried to $223 million dollars it would be too much

If the Sox signed William Adames for $187 million dollars it would be too much.

It's funny......who decides what is too much and not too much? 30 million is too much for a player but 20 million wouldn't be according to whom?

Then they turn around and don't want to argue the details, like WAR, Defense, stats, potential, the Luxury Tax etc. etc.  I think some people just like to complain.

Lets hope they have less to complain about this year. 

I would have only been bothered by Snell and Adames just because I don't like those two players. The contracts seem fine if someone else wants to take a chance on them though. 

Sox paid a high AAV premium in order to keep the years low. Seems like a fair tradeoff! 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

No faith in Refsnyder?

I think his numbers vs RHP won't be as good this year as they were in '24.