Red Sox sign Alex Bregman

[notin]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think we've made too much of the splits stuff.  O'Neill was 3rd on the team in offensive WAR, that was my main beef about losing and not replacing him.

I backtracked in my head and simplified that answer.

The splits stuff was often cited as a reason the Sox needed him.  Left-handed splits only, of course.

On baseball-reference (the site that actually has oWAR), O’Neill was fourth in oWAR, just behind Connor Wong.  O’Neill was 0.5 oWAR ahead of David Hamilton, who had 150 less PA…

[notin]

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

FanGraphs has Offensive RAR.  Not much difference.  You just divide by 10 to get the WAR.

 

 

The sites differ greatly on the oWAR values for O’Neill’s and Wong…

 

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, notin said:

The sites differ greatly on the oWAR values for O’Neill’s and Wong…

 

Yeah, lots of differences.  O'Neill was second in OPS.  Most of it came from crushing lefties.  

I just thought they needed to get another bat, basically.  And they did.  

 

[notin]

5 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, lots of differences.  O'Neill was second in OPS.  Most of it came from crushing lefties.  

I just thought they needed to get another bat, basically.  And they did.  

 

I wanted that bat to play 3rd and hit right-handed and not be Nolan Arenado at all or be Alex Bregman for the next 6-7 years.

 

Ok so I was rather picky, but they nailed my wish list, even if they danced around that last part, and probably won’t play Bregman at third for a while…

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, notin said:

Total bases tell more about a hitter.  RBIs depend on other hitters.

 

And if you like RBIs, O’Neill should be a guy you want to move.

I don’t really care that much to know more about a hitter, but if I do I’ll dig deeper. Like I’ve already repeated HR, and RBI show up on the scoreboard in real time. I wasn’t a O’Neil fan either. To many K’s, and not as good in the field as advertised when he can stay on the field.

[Deja Doh]

I like Bregman.  I had named him a get while most of you were twiddling your thumbs. $120 mil for 3 years, though, seems excessive when Pete Alonso, who I also liked, was inked for $54 mil over 2 years.  We should have been all over that.  How about an outfielder?  We have Duran, maybe Abreu and who else.  Rafaela can't get on base (maybe he can play short when Story gets hurt again).  Yoshida has played OF 88 times in 2 years, so he's a DH.  

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, Deja Doh said:

I like Bregman.  I had named him a get while most of you were twiddling your thumbs. $120 mil for 3 years, though, seems excessive when Pete Alonso, who I also liked, was inked for $54 mil over 2 years.  We should have been all over that.  

Except it's not really $120 million, it's more like $95 million because of the deferrals.

[FredLynn]

17 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

Devers did not have surgery on his shoulders this offseason, if the shoulders are barking at him again in 2025 and Campbell has a great start in Worcester, devers may become a full time dh regardless of his desires!!! 

I don't get this business of pouting (and I am not saying that Devers is pouting yet) when a player is told that the team needs him to play a different position than he thinks he should be playing. A player should be willing to play wherever the team most needs him. Its not about HIM: its about the team.

[Bellhorn04]

As far as the opt-outs go, when you look at the other offers he declined and the deferrals he agreed to and so on, it sure looks like Bregman REALLY wanted to play in Boston, which is kind of nice for a change, no?

[moonslav59]

11 hours ago, vjcsmoke said:

I really thought this was all faked interest. But they actually pulled the trigger. He's an instant upgrade on defense and a right handed bat. Too bad he has to play 2nd base and not his best position at 3rd base.

But it feels far too late to trade Casas at this point. Might as well see if the can bloom into a power bat. Then he might be worth even more next offseason.

So Devers 3rd, Bregman 2nd, and Casas 1st looks like our infield.

Story -might- play SS if the man of glass can can avoid getting hurt and missing 3/4 of the season yet again.

I'm hoping Marcelo Mayer is ready soon so we can have a real player at shortstop.

PS It sounds like Alex Cora might have been doing some hard pushing to get Bregman on the Sox.

Article: https://www.si.com/mlb/red-sox/boston-red-sox-news/red-sox-manager-alex-cora-wants-this-119-million-free-agent-badly-per-insider-jackson3

Your claim that Bregman is an "instant upgrade" on defense is dubious, at best, as long as he plays 2B over DHam-Romy or maybe even Campbell.

It will instantly improve the defense, the second he plays 3B.

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

As far as the opt-outs go, when you look at the other offers he declined and the deferrals he agreed to and so on, it sure looks like Bregman REALLY wanted to play in Boston, which is kind of nice for a change, no?

Yes on the nice change. He obviously didn’t want to go to Detroit, and Cora most likely had something to do with him coming to Boston. He’s here now, and how long he stays we’ll worry about that after this season. 

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Your claim that Bregman is an "instant upgrade" on defense is dubious, at best, as long as he plays 2B over DHam-Romy or maybe even Campbell.

It will instantly improve the defense, the second he plays 3B.

The fact that Cora thinks Bregman can play 2B well means nothing?

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The fact that Cora thinks Bregman can play 2B well means nothing?

Cora said they talked about Bregman being a 2B years ago when Cora was in Houston, but Altuve was there, and said he thought Bregman would be an excellent 2B.

[Bellhorn04]

“He should be OK,” Cora said of Bregman shifting to second. “We actually had that conversation [about playing second] in ‘17. We made some adjustments at third base. Where he was playing, he was feeling uncomfortable. At the end, it paid off for him."

“He’s a Gold Glover defender at third. But I always envisioned him playing in the middle of the diamond. He can adjust. He has the baseball IQ to do that. People might think the double play might be an issue, but I don’t think so. I think he can do whatever.”

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The fact that Cora thinks Bregman can play 2B well means nothing?

It. sadly, means everything. I never said otherwise.

His sample size at 2b means nobody knows, if he is an upgrade on D over DHam and Romy at 2B. We do know they both looked pretty good on D, last year, at 2B. Campbell may or may not be better than Bregman on D.

WE DO KNOW Bregman is was better at 3B D than Devers. To me, even if Bregman plays decent to GG D at 2B, doesn't change the fact that our defense would be way better with Bregman at 3B and a combo of DHam-Romy or Campbell at 2B than Devers at 3B and Bregman at 2B.

Does anyone, even Cora, doubt this?

This choice is made to keep Devers as happy as possible. Let's not sugarcoat that. It's not the first time this sort of thing has been done in MLB history, and it's not claiming there no value attached to keeping your best players happy. It's something Cora had to weigh, and he made his choice, apparently. Of course, it's based on the opinion that Bregman can play plus defense at 2B. Cora knows Bregman better than any of us, but that is just one aspect of the choice being made.

I'm liking the Bregman signing more and more as I dive into the data, like his numbers at Fenway and his immense leadership abilities, but it seems clear to me, his value is maximized by playing 3B. The value of Devers increases, when he is at DH or 1B, but this assumes he's not pouting and having his offense decline, as a result. I don't view Devers as a pouter, so I do see the issue like some do, and maybe how Cora sees the issue.

Maybe Cora talked to Devers and walked away thinking he cannot move him off 3B. In that sense, he certainly knows more than we do.

I'm still a big Cora supporter, and deep down, I think Bregman will end up at 3B, just like Story ended up at SS.

I'm most happy about seeing JH deciding to break the cycle of cheapness.

I don't see Bregman as the savior vs LHPs or as the "big bat" we needed, but his offense is a plus. I've repeated the .795 OPS since 2020 often enough, but I also point out the .795 comes to a 120 OPS+, so that is very nice.

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

“He should be OK,” Cora said of Bregman shifting to second. “We actually had that conversation [about playing second] in ‘17. We made some adjustments at third base. Where he was playing, he was feeling uncomfortable. At the end, it paid off for him."

“He’s a Gold Glover defender at third. But I always envisioned him playing in the middle of the diamond. He can adjust. He has the baseball IQ to do that. People might think the double play might be an issue, but I don’t think so. I think he can do whatever.”

So, Campbell to the OF, along with Anthony to replace one or two of our best hitters, so we can keep our corner IF defense the worst in MLB, and perhaps MLB history.

That is obviously oversimplifying the situation, but is it false?

[Bellhorn04]

Sample size isn't everything.  Bregman has the body and skill set to be a good middle infielder.

Some guys can play multiple infield positions.  Jose Iglesias for example.

[Randy Red Sox]

1 hour ago, notin said:

I wanted that bat to play 3rd and hit right-handed and not be Nolan Arenado at all or be Alex Bregman for the next 6-7 years.

 

Ok so I was rather picky, but they nailed my wish list, even if they danced around that last part, and probably won’t play Bregman at third for a while…

I like the signing and think overall it was a successful offseason. Actually looking forward to the season for the first time in several years.  Now just get Crochet extended.

[notin]

1 hour ago, Deja Doh said:

I like Bregman.  I had named him a get while most of you were twiddling your thumbs. $120 mil for 3 years, though, seems excessive when Pete Alonso, who I also liked, was inked for $54 mil over 2 years.  We should have been all over that.  How about an outfielder?  We have Duran, maybe Abreu and who else.  Rafaela can't get on base (maybe he can play short when Story gets hurt again).  Yoshida has played OF 88 times in 2 years, so he's a DH.  

Alonso clogs up the 1b/DH situation even further. Bregman at least has middle infield experience, albeit mostly in college and the lower minors.  And I stand by my next prediction for Bregman, which is he will eventually take over 3b, either pushing Devers into the 1b/DH mix or if Devers gets hurt.

The Sox OF is fine.  Rafaela is not much of a hitter, but an elite defensive OF.  And we also still have Roman Anthony…

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, Campbell to the OF, along with Anthony to replace one or two of our best hitters, so we can keep our corner IF defense the worst in MLB, and perhaps MLB history.

That is obviously oversimplifying the situation, but is it false?

notin may not be wrong when he predicts Bregman starts at 2B but doesn't end there.

I'm interested to see how it shakes out.  At the moment, I'm happy with the move and I'm confident that Breslow and Cora have thought this out.  They've probably known for at least 2 months that this was a real possibility. 

[notin]

1 minute ago, Randy Red Sox said:

I like the signing and think overall it was a successful offseason. Actually looking forward to the season for the first time in several years.  Now just get Crochet extended.

And this from someone who’s been a heavy critic since November.  Your objectivity is noted…

[Bellhorn04]

For all we know there are other teams interested in trading for Yoshida but want to see if he's healthy first.  

[Randy Red Sox]

Just now, notin said:

And this from someone who’s been a heavy critic since November.  Your objectivity is noted…

Sadly i have a been a pretty big critic for a few years now but this offseason has been a success and I am excited for the season to start. i think Bregman is going to mash at Fenway.

[notin]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Sample size isn't everything.  Bregman has the body and skill set to be a good middle infielder.

Some guys can play multiple infield positions.  Jose Iglesias for example.

It’s odd that many think Bregman can’t handle 2b, but none of us know him or have watched him as much as Cora, who thinks the opposite.

Im deferring to Cora here, but these things do have a way of working out…

[notin]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

For all we know there are other teams interested in trading for Yoshida but want to see if he's healthy first.  

The Sox should hold Yoshida.  He can hit.  And right now he is part of their depth, which is a good thing.  Or they could trade him, watch injuries kick in, and be forced to sign some Jake Lamb type so he can take meaningful at bats…

[notin]

9 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

notin may not be wrong when he predicts Bregman starts at 2B but doesn't end there.

I'm interested to see how it shakes out.  At the moment, I'm happy with this move and I'm confident that Breslow and Cora have thought this out.  They've probably known for at least 2 months that this was a real possibility. 

I’m also looking at the Dodgers.

They have a Gold Glove 2b in CF and a Gold Glove RF at SS.  And they have a player who was a rookie last year that posted an .886 OPS in the NLCS, but whose starting position next year appears to be RF for the Oklahoma City Comets.

Playing good defenders out of position and hording depth above your best prospects? Fans might not like the Sox doing it, but it’s the Dodger way…

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

The Sox should hold Yoshida.  He can hit.  And right now he is part of their depth, which is a good thing.  Or they could trade him, watch injuries kick in, and be forced to sign some Jake Lamb type so he can take meaningful at bats…

Probably so.  I think I'm trying to make moon feel a little better, because I'm already worried moon's brain is going to melt a little each time he sees Devers at third.

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

notin may not be wrong when he predicts Bregman starts at 2B but doesn't end there.

I'm interested to see how it shakes out.  At the moment, I'm happy with the move and I'm confident that Breslow and Cora have thought this out.  They've probably known for at least 2 months that this was a real possibility. 

If everyone is healthy, and the current roster stays as is, and Bregman starts the year at 2B I don’t see him moving off 2B. Now any injuries, or changes in the roster, and all bets are off. It would be great for a change to not have any revolving door at 2B, or SS, and have mostly FT players at each position. The suspects time will come at some point.

[notin]

50 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

As far as the opt-outs go, when you look at the other offers he declined and the deferrals he agreed to and so on, it sure looks like Bregman REALLY wanted to play in Boston, which is kind of nice for a change, no?

Cora factor.

If he wanted Boston, he had his chance back in 2012 when the Sox drafted him and his best buddy Blake Swihart was already in the organization.  But he opted for LSU instead…

[notin]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

If everyone is healthy, and the current roster stays as is, and Bregman starts the year at 2B I don’t see him moving off 2B. Now any injuries, or changes in the roster, and all bets are off. It would be great for a change to not have any revolving door at 2B, or SS, and have mostly FT players at each position. The suspects time will come at some point.

Injuries will be a factor, since they are every year.  And roster changes are even more frequent.

Essentially you said Bregman will play second base until he doesn’t.  Hard to argue with that…