Red Sox: Off Season 2024-2025

[mvp 78]

How can we say that without knowing what they offered him?

 

They were quick to sign Bello and Rafaela to overpays. Hard to believe the Casas deal was an underpay.

[mvp 78]

Except many are asking for Devers to move to his position, implying a Casas trade or a move to DH and a Yoshi trade.

 

You've asked for Devers to move to his position since Devers was in AA.

[mvp 78]

The "many" are just us wild ass guessers, not guys who actually work for the team.

 

Yes, the closest we've ever gotten was SFF given an off the books Uber ride to Larry Lucchino.

 

As TalkSox historian, I mention the lore so that in case I get hit by a bus, it's not lost to history.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Lots of good young outfielders. At least a few promising shortstops coming. But there's no first baseman in the pipeline close to Casas. He's a keeper.

 

As a methodical cerebral batter, it's not hard to imagine Casas becoming a consistent Joey Votto type player.

 

(had to bring up Votto -- who just retired... saw him in Woo last month, pinch-hitting and running the bases with no socks on... then my son saw him on the street and got his autograph; Joey wearing Bermuda shorts and sandals, walking to his hotel, instead of taking the team bus).

[moonslav59]

The "many" are just us wild ass guessers, not guys who actually work for the team.

 

You don't think they ever discussed moving the bad defender, Devers to another position?

 

Personally, I don't think it happens for another 3-4 years, like when Casas's control ends, but Devers would be a plus defender at 1B in a short time. (Casas is not a plus defender at 1B, so win-win situations should be discussed.)

[moonslav59]

Lots of good young outfielders. At least a few promising shortstops coming. But there's no first baseman in the pipeline close to Casas. He's a keeper.

 

As a methodical cerebral batter, it's not hard to imagine Casas becoming a consistent Joey Votto type player.

 

(had to bring up Votto -- who just retired... saw him in Woo last month, pinch-hitting and running the bases with no socks on... then my son saw him on the street and got his autograph; Joey wearing Bermuda shorts and sandals, walking to his hotel, instead of taking the team bus).

 

When Casas sees his control years go, he will sign with someone else, and Devers will move to 1B. Book it.

 

I seriously doubt we trade Casas, and we aren't getting an ace for him, anyway, so he's not going anywhere.

 

Now, maybe a Casas + a top 4 prospect might get an ace with 3-5 years of control, but who knows?

[Hugh2]

Hugh, all you have to do is change the 2023/24 in your signature line to 2024/25 and you're good to go.

 

I'll just keep it there until I'm right and claim victory!!!

[moonslav59]

I'll just keep it there until I'm right and claim victory!!!

 

Just do it before Jan 1st!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

When Casas sees his control years go, he will sign with someone else, and Devers will move to 1B. Book it.

 

I seriously doubt we trade Casas, and we aren't getting an ace for him, anyway, so he's not going anywhere.

 

Now, maybe a Casas + a top 4 prospect might get an ace with 3-5 years of control, but who knows?

 

The more I look, the more I just don't see many pitchers with longterm ace status around anymore -- too much velo, too much torque, too much sweep, too many injuries.

 

The smart money and prospect capital -- instead of blowing it on one temporary All-Star arm -- may be to spread it around to stockpile proven big league pitchers...

 

Depth. It isn't that deep.

[jgar658]

I will say it again.

 

The Red Sox need a top of the line bullpen. They can still win with average No.3 starters because they have plenty of hitting.

I do not see the hitting going away anytime soon.

 

Every time the bullpen does a decent job we win.

We need stellar defense in SS and 2b. Raphie and Casas have to be tolerated in 1b and 3b.

[Bellhorn04]

They were quick to sign Bello and Rafaela to overpays. Hard to believe the Casas deal was an underpay.

 

I can understand him having higher demands than those two, after a debut season in which he proved himself as an MLB hitter.

[mvp 78]

Lots of good young outfielders. At least a few promising shortstops coming. But there's no first baseman in the pipeline close to Casas. He's a keeper.

 

As a methodical cerebral batter, it's not hard to imagine Casas becoming a consistent Joey Votto type player.

 

(had to bring up Votto -- who just retired... saw him in Woo last month, pinch-hitting and running the bases with no socks on... then my son saw him on the street and got his autograph; Joey wearing Bermuda shorts and sandals, walking to his hotel, instead of taking the team bus).

 

Blaze Jordan - hit for power when he was 17 and then lost it

Drew Ehrhard - old signee who has hit the ball very well in a small sample, older brother of new draftee Zach, older than Casas, did I mention OLD?

Nathan Hickey - just demoted to AA, which is always a great sign

Bryan Gonzalez - big body, big power, this is the first year he's shown signs of life since COVID season

Andruw Mussett - who the hell knows, bat may not be good enough for 1b, should try to stick at catcher

Brooks Brannon - always injured, in-game performance is not impressive at all

Freili Encarnacion - originally signed as a SS, but had to move elsewhere and is now at 1B because LOL, only 19 but hasn't hit anywhere

Justin Gonzales - the only real 1B prospect, is 17 and in the DSL, probably wouldn't be here until 2029

[mvp 78]

I will say it again.

 

The Red Sox need a top of the line bullpen. They can still win with average No.3 starters because they have plenty of hitting.

I do not see the hitting going away anytime soon.

 

Every time the bullpen does a decent job we win.

We need stellar defense in SS and 2b. Raphie and Casas have to be tolerated in 1b and 3b.

 

If they committed to Raffy and Casas at 1B and 3B, but went all out for defense at 2B and SS there'd be a HUGE improvement in the defense. A better SS makes Devers' job so much easier.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Blaze Jordan - hit for power when he was 17 and then lost it

Drew Ehrhard - old signee who has hit the ball very well in a small sample, older brother of new draftee Zach, older than Casas, did I mention OLD?

Nathan Hickey - just demoted to AA, which is always a great sign

Bryan Gonzalez - big body, big power, this is the first year he's shown signs of life since COVID season

Andruw Mussett - who the hell knows, bat may not be good enough for 1b, should try to stick at catcher

Brooks Brannon - always injured, in-game performance is not impressive at all

Freili Encarnacion - originally signed as a SS, but had to move elsewhere and is now at 1B because LOL, only 19 but hasn't hit anywhere

Justin Gonzales - the only real 1B prospect, is 17 and in the DSL, probably wouldn't be here until 2029

 

Bleccchhh!

 

Move Mayer to first base today! Or whatever day he plays again...

[mvp 78]

Bleccchhh!

 

Move Mayer to first base today! Or whatever day he plays again...

 

He's actually a decent SS. Moving him to 1B would be wild at this point.

[moonslav59]

The more I look, the more I just don't see many pitchers with longterm ace status around anymore -- too much velo, too much torque, too much sweep, too many injuries.

 

The smart money and prospect capital -- instead of blowing it on one temporary All-Star arm -- may be to spread it around to stockpile proven big league pitchers...

 

Depth. It isn't that deep.

 

Then, trade a mess of prospects for a mess of sightly above average pitchers known for eating innings.

[moonslav59]

Blaze Jordan - hit for power when he was 17 and then lost it

Drew Ehrhard - old signee who has hit the ball very well in a small sample, older brother of new draftee Zach, older than Casas, did I mention OLD?

Nathan Hickey - just demoted to AA, which is always a great sign

Bryan Gonzalez - big body, big power, this is the first year he's shown signs of life since COVID season

Andruw Mussett - who the hell knows, bat may not be good enough for 1b, should try to stick at catcher

Brooks Brannon - always injured, in-game performance is not impressive at all

Freili Encarnacion - originally signed as a SS, but had to move elsewhere and is now at 1B because LOL, only 19 but hasn't hit anywhere

Justin Gonzales - the only real 1B prospect, is 17 and in the DSL, probably wouldn't be here until 2029

 

No Bobby DEE!

[harmony]

Would BTV accept one of Kirby or Gilbert?

 

We could add EValdez and Wikelman.

 

A trade of George Kirby or Logan Gilbert is doubtful unless in the unlikely event the Mariners sign Seattle native Blake Snell, who reportedly wanted to pitch in his hometown.

 

This poster will make his first trip to Seattle this year to attend Saturday's matchup of Kirby and Snell.

[moonslav59]

A trade of George Kirby or Logan Gilbert is doubtful unless in the unlikely event the Mariners sign Seattle native Blake Snell, who reportedly wanted to pitch in his hometown.

 

This poster will make his first trip to Seattle this year to attend Saturday's matchup of Kirby and Snell.

 

I wonder why the talk of SEA trading a top pitcher ever gets started, but it seems to happen every year.

 

Maybe the fact that their GM makes 365 trades a year has something to do with it.

 

Could they trade Castillo and sign Snell?

[mvp 78]

I wonder why the talk of SEA trading a top pitcher ever gets started, but it seems to happen every year.

 

Maybe the fact that their GM makes 365 trades a year has something to do with it.

 

Could they trade Castillo and sign Snell?

 

They have a "surplus" of pitching and a lack of offense. Seems easier to grab offensive guys in FA IMO.

 

The problem is that their stadium isn't conducive to putting up offensive stats and wouldn't be a deterrence in enticing short term position players.

[Maxbialystock]

The more I look, the more I just don't see many pitchers with longterm ace status around anymore -- too much velo, too much torque, too much sweep, too many injuries.

 

The smart money and prospect capital -- instead of blowing it on one temporary All-Star arm -- may be to spread it around to stockpile proven big league pitchers...

 

Depth. It isn't that deep.

 

Too bad it's me saying this, but I think you've made a heckuva point, especially that brilliant phrase, "temporary All-Star arm." That's Sale, Price, Beckett, Lackey, and a whole bunch of great arms who didn't pitch for the Sox.

 

There are of course significant exceptions--like Verlander--but that's the point: they are exceptions and absolutely not the rule.

 

I also like your notion that there is strength in numbers: that is, acquire pitching depth. I think that is exactly what has happen this season to the Sox lineup players, who constitute half the team. I call them the no-names, which really means underpaid. Casas, Wong, Abreu, Hamilton, and Duran are all @ $750K. Rafaela is $1.25M. That's 2/3 of the Sox starting lineup for $6M. The two big righty bats, Ref and O'Neill, are @ $1.85M and $5.85M. Lurking @ Worcester are Mayer, Teel, Anthony, and Campbell. Plus let's not forget that DFA'd Smith and McGuire definitely contributed to this Sox team.

 

I hasten to add that I think Devers ($30M) and Yoshida ($18.6M) are pretty close to earning their pay, but they are just two of 9.

 

The rotation started out like a house afire, and then stumbled badly after the ASG, but I think Houck, Bello, Crawford, Pivetta, and Criswell are right now borderline adequate. Including Pivetta @ $7.5M and Bello at $1.2M, their combined salaries are around $11.5M. And their WAR's are, in the same order, 3.4, 0.8, 1.6, 1.0, and 0.0.

 

Plus we also can't forget the failed (so far) investments of Giolito ($38M for 2 years, which are now 1), Story ($22M x 6 years?), and of course Sale, whom the Sox are paying $17M so he can star for the Braves. That's a whole lot of money for zippo performance.

Edited August 22, 2024 by Maxbialystock

[Maxbialystock]

If they committed to Raffy and Casas at 1B and 3B, but went all out for defense at 2B and SS there'd be a HUGE improvement in the defense. A better SS makes Devers' job so much easier.

 

All out commitment to defense at 2b and SS is horsehockey. Bats first, gloves second at all positions. Thus did Bogaerts last 10 freaking seasons with the Sox. Pedey was in fact a good defensive secondbaseman, but he lasted because he could hit. The intent with Story was to get a good defensive SS/2b, which he is, who could also hit, which he hasn't. Plus he's played just 145 games in 3 seasons.

 

The best defense is a good pitching staff, and that's what the Sox need to invest in.

[moonslav59]

All out commitment to defense at 2b and SS is horsehockey. Bats first, gloves second at all positions. Thus did Bogaerts last 10 freaking seasons with the Sox. Pedey was in fact a good defensive secondbaseman, but he lasted because he could hit. The intent with Story was to get a good defensive SS/2b, which he is, who could also hit, which he hasn't. Plus he's played just 145 games in 3 seasons.

 

The best defense is a good pitching staff, and that's what the Sox need to invest in.

 

We could improve the defense without parting with a bat.

[Hugh2]

A trade of George Kirby or Logan Gilbert is doubtful unless in the unlikely event the Mariners sign Seattle native Blake Snell, who reportedly wanted to pitch in his hometown.

 

This poster will make his first trip to Seattle this year to attend Saturday's matchup of Kirby and Snell.

 

Mariners need bats.

 

BTV accepts Mayer/Abreu for Kirby. Seattle should do this.

[Maxbialystock]

When Casas sees his control years go, he will sign with someone else, and Devers will move to 1B. Book it.

 

I seriously doubt we trade Casas, and we aren't getting an ace for him, anyway, so he's not going anywhere.

 

Now, maybe a Casas + a top 4 prospect might get an ace with 3-5 years of control, but who knows?

 

I like Casas, and goodness knows the Sox haven't often had a good bat at 1b. Youk was. But the real point--just as you say--is that 1b is the easiest of the infield positions. Thus Youk, a thirdbaseman, and thus Napoli, a catcher. This year Wong has played 1b. And Devers is clearly in that mold when the time comes.

 

The point for now is that Devers is not a big liability defensively at 3b, and he is having a career year at the plate. Casas best position might be DH, but for now that's Yoshida.

[moonslav59]

I like Casas, and goodness knows the Sox haven't often had a good bat at 1b. Youk was. But the real point--just as you say--is that 1b is the easiest of the infield positions. Thus Youk, a thirdbaseman, and thus Napoli, a catcher. This year Wong has played 1b. And Devers is clearly in that mold when the time comes.

 

The point for now is that Devers is not a big liability defensively at 3b, and he is having a career year at the plate. Casas best position might be DH, but for now that's Yoshida.

 

Devers > Casas on O and D at 1B

Casas> Yoshi on O at DH

 

The question becomes who plays 3rd and how do they compare on O to Yoshi and D to Devers.

 

If it's Mayer or Campbell, what say you?

[harmony]

They have a "surplus" of pitching and a lack of offense. Seems easier to grab offensive guys in FA IMO.

 

The problem is that their stadium isn't conducive to putting up offensive stats and wouldn't be a deterrence in enticing short term position players.

It's far easier for the Mariners to attract free agent pitchers than to attract free agent hitters. Few hitters want to play in Seattle.

[notin]

It's far easier for the Mariners to attract free agent pitchers than to attract free agent hitters. Few hitters want to play in Seattle.

 

That’s because they put cream cheese on hot dogs out there…

[mvp 78]

Mariners need bats.

 

BTV accepts Mayer/Abreu for Kirby. Seattle should do this.

 

Ok.

[mvp 78]

That’s because they put cream cheese on hot dogs out there…

 

What the hell? This can’t be true…