A Realistic View at 2024: Part III

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

That's only because baseball is LOL random. That's one of the tenents of TalkSox.

I understands this. It is also one reason I do not view W-L records of pitchers as being all that useful in determining how good or bad they are.

[mvp 78]

36 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I understands this. It is also one reason I do not view W-L records of pitchers as being all that useful in determining how good or bad they are.

Kutter leads the league in losses. Maybe some old school guys would think that he had a terrible year? I think he had an ok year, but just needs to tighten up on the HR allowed numbers. Kutter's bad luck was pitching for a team that was wildly inconsistent offensively. On a better team, his 180 IP and 4 ERA would look a bit better IMO.

[notin]

16 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Kutter leads the league in losses. Maybe some old school guys would think that he had a terrible year? I think he had an ok year, but just needs to tighten up on the HR allowed numbers. Kutter's bad luck was pitching for a team that was wildly inconsistent offensively. On a better team, his 180 IP and 4 ERA would look a bit better IMO.

Crawford pitched 179.1 IP with a 4.17 ERA and is 9-15.

Pablo Lopez pitched 179.2 IP with a 4.11 ERA and is 15-9. (1 less ER)

 

If the Sox had Pablo Lopez, would fans want him relegated to the bullpen, too?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

That's only because baseball is LOL random. That's one of the tenents of TalkSox.

It wasn't random that the Red Sox offense was more motivated in Criswell games. They knew they'd need to score more to offset the meatballs he was serving, plus teammates wanted to reward him for being the fastest worker in the league, which meant they could make early dinner reservations those nights. 

[mvp 78]

Going into the year, Houck and Crawford were NOT the 1 and 2. That was Bello and Pivetta! Crawford pitched Game 3. Houck didn't pitch until Game 5. 

[notin]

16 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Going into the year, Houck and Crawford were NOT the 1 and 2. That was Bello and Pivetta! Crawford pitched Game 3. Houck didn't pitch until Game 5. 

Speaking of Pivetta, in their most recent chat, MLBTR discussed the possibility of a reunion with Boston for 3 years (max).

They’re not working with insider info or anything, but if the Sox do sign a free agent SP, I’d expect Pivetta to be on their short list…

[dgalehouse]

  The tragic number is down to two. A Royals win and a Sox loss tonight would eliminate the Sox. However, that is not likely to happen because the Royals are in free fall while the Sox are again playing the hapless Jays, who have no interest in winning. And the Royals finish the year with three in Atlanta. Doubtful they win any of those against the Braves. The Twins likewise are in need of the Heimlich maneuver. Conceding the second wild card to the Tigers, the third is still up for grabs. If Boston wins their next four games, they definitely could sneak in. 

[moonslav59]

51 minutes ago, notin said:

Crawford pitched 179.1 IP with a 4.17 ERA and is 9-15.

Pablo Lopez pitched 179.2 IP with a 4.11 ERA and is 15-9. (1 less ER)

 

If the Sox had Pablo Lopez, would fans want him relegated to the bullpen, too?

I've changed my mind on moving him to the pen. I'm not sure anyone else supported my earlier position.

Ideally, I would still like to have 5 better SP'ers, but that would take 2-3 major rotation additions, and that is NOT happening.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I've changed my mind on moving him to the pen. I'm not sure anyone else supported my earlier position.

Ideally, I would still like to have 5 better SP'ers, but that would take 2-3 major rotation additions, and that is NOT happening.

Give me a 5th starter who can throw 180 innings and have a sub 4.25 ERA! I'm not sending that guy to the pen no matter how many HR's he gives up. 

[moonslav59]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

Give me a 5th starter who can throw 180 innings and have a sub 4.25 ERA! I'm not sending that guy to the pen no matter how many HR's he gives up. 

Yes, unless you have 5 guys with even better numbers.

Quick question, let's say we have 4 SP'ers better than Bello & Crawford. Who stays in the rotation as the #5,

[mvp 78]

Bello supposedly being the #1 starter going into the year and not even getting to 2 bWAR is an embarrassment. I guess his peak is 4th starter to go along with everyone else now? He's on a fairly cheap deal. Sox could consider moving him this offseason as part of a larger deal for a better arm.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, unless you have 5 guys with even better numbers.

Quick question, let's say we have 4 SP'ers better than Bello & Crawford. Who stays in the rotation as the #5,

I'd put Bello in the pen. 

[notin]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I've changed my mind on moving him to the pen. I'm not sure anyone else supported my earlier position.

Ideally, I would still like to have 5 better SP'ers, but that would take 2-3 major rotation additions, and that is NOT happening.

Larry went a (rather large) step further and wanted him to be a minor league depth piece…

[notin]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd put Bello in the pen. 

I wanted to ask why but I see it was a multiple choice question…

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Bello supposedly being the #1 starter going into the year and not even getting to 2 bWAR is an embarrassment. I guess his peak is 4th starter to go along with everyone else now? He's on a fairly cheap deal. Sox could consider moving him this offseason as part of a larger deal for a better arm.

When you consider that fact about Bello's slot and then losing Gio (maybe our 2/3 slot SP'er,) our rotation did pretty well. Many felt Houck was the #6 and Criswell the #7 or 8. 

We also lost Whitlock after 4 starts, and he started off very well.

Our rotation depth ended up carrying us, but it was only 2 deep (Houck & Criswell,) and that turned out to be not enough.

Pivetta did okay. Crawford pitched more innings and GS than expected and probably did about as expected. Bello did worse then expected (or hoped for.) Houck did great, despite the near .500 team record in his starts. Criswell kept us in the race.

[notin]

26 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Bello supposedly being the #1 starter going into the year and not even getting to 2 bWAR is an embarrassment. I guess his peak is 4th starter to go along with everyone else now? He's on a fairly cheap deal. Sox could consider moving him this offseason as part of a larger deal for a better arm.

He’s also only 23.

And he was worth 3.2 bWAR last year.  I doubt he peaked at age 22.

He may never be a so-called ace, but it’s a bit early to pigeonhole him as the Expendable Disappointment…

[mvp 78]

43 minutes ago, notin said:

I wanted to ask why but I see it was a multiple choice question…

It was just either or. To me, Kutter logs innings and is more consistent. Bello's stuff could theoretically play up in the pen. 

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, notin said:

He’s also only 23.

And he was worth 3.2 bWAR last year.  I doubt he peaked at age 22.

He may never be a so-called ace, but it’s a bit early to pigeonhole him as the Expendable Disappointment…

He's 25. I'm allowed to pigeonhole him after 69 GS. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I've changed my mind on moving him to the pen. I'm not sure anyone else supported my earlier position.

Ideally, I would still like to have 5 better SP'ers, but that would take 2-3 major rotation additions, and that is NOT happening.

The sad state of being a Red Sox fan: I read your post too fast and assumed you meant 2-3 major LEAGUE rotation additions... and WE ALL KNOW that is NOT even happening. 

However, that doesn't preclude 2-3 additions to the Major League rotation... that they put Major League jerseys on.

For the semantics chefs in the front office kitchen, it's all how they toss the word salads.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

The sad state of being a Red Sox fan: I read your post too fast and assumed you meant 2-3 major LEAGUE rotation additions... and WE ALL KNOW that is NOT even happening. 

However, that doesn't preclude 2-3 additions to the Major League rotation... that they put Major League jerseys on.

For the semantics chefs in the front office kitchen, it's all how they toss the word salads.

I actually think we need 2 major rotation additions to be a top contender. It would push a current starter to the pen and keep those we think might be our #5 as AAA depth.

I know it WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I actually think we need 2 major rotation additions to be a top contender. It would push a current starter to the pen and keep those we think might be our #5 as AAA depth.

I know it WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

John Henry's interns who read and masquerade on Red Sox forums just told him that posters are already trending too many upper case letters -- and the season isn't even OVER yet.

John's preparing a press release complaining that fan letter expectations are unreasonably high.

"Shift keys and caps lock is no way to go through life, son," said Dean Henry.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

John Henry's interns who read and masquerade on Red Sox forums just told him that posters are already trending too many upper case letters -- and the season isn't even OVER yet.

John's preparing a press release complaining that fan letter expectations are unreasonably high.

"Shift keys and caps lock is no way to go through life, son," said Dean Henry.

I'm not even sure he pays attention to drops in attendance or NESN subscriptions. I'm pretty sure he cares less about fan grumblings.

All jokes aside, I do think the fans and media will be more vocal and critical, if we repeat doing so little to improve the roster over the winter.

I might say I hope he listens, but I know better.

[moonslav59]

At the risk of some thinking I'm only helping  JH & Co make their sham case, I will say, I had a lot of fun watching this year's team. We had a few nice stretches, where we seemed to put it all together, and many more stretches where 1 or 2 aspects of out game were doing well or very well. For almost the whole season, our D sucked. For too much of the season, our pen sucked. Our rotation started our like a mythical beast, morphed into earthlings, then ended up doing okay. The offense was, pardon the expression, "hit or miss."

We failed to get the key hit way too often. We had a nicely balanced line-up, by the numbers, but it didn't work out to enough runs to make up for the weak spots.

Anybody that doesn't think it was fun as hell watching Duran, was not watching the same games I was.

The Abreu-Refsnyder platoon was one of MLB's best, if not the best.

Devers was about to break his career best OPS season, in a year when hitting was down, but that got derailed by an injury, he tried to play through.

The multitude of injuries hurt our chances, but we did get some decent depth play from DHam, Romy and even D Smith.

Yoshida came back and did okay. I feel better about Story after his return.

Wong showed he was a top 10 hitting catcher, but his D was not fun to watch.

We saw Rafaela struggle with the K Zone, but WOW did he make some very impressive plays on D, while also amazing us with so many RBIs with so few hits.

Gotta hand it to Houck, who was viewed as the 6th starter by many. We lost Gio for 33 starts, Whitlock for 29 starts and others for a few, here and there. Considering this, the rotation did okay. They were mostly fun to watch.

Slaten and Jansen were about the only good things from the pen. A couple other guys had good stretches, here and there, but not enough of them.

I'm sure someone will disagree with me and claim it's no fun watching a team lose 3 years in a row, and so there is that aspect to consider, too. That part sucked.

I will say, I feel much better about our 26 and 40 man rosters . right now, that I have since before the 2019 season. I feel much better about the farm- top to bottom, now more than any time since the start of the DD era. Call me a pink hat, rose colored glasses homer, if you must, but there is a lot to be optimistic about, and there really was some fun baseball, this year.

 

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

At the risk of some thinking I'm only helping  JH & Co make their sham case, I will say, I had a lot of fun watching this year's team. We had a few nice stretches, where we seemed to put it all together, and many more stretches where 1 or 2 aspects of out game were doing well or very well. For almost the whole season, our D sucked. For too much of the season, our pen sucked. Our rotation started our like a mythical beast, morphed into earthlings, then ended up doing okay. The offense was, pardon the expression, "hit or miss."

We failed to get the key hit way too often. We had a nicely balanced line-up, by the numbers, but it didn't work out to enough runs to make up for the weak spots.

Anybody that doesn't think it was fun as hell watching Duran, was not watching the same games I was.

The Abreu-Refsnyder platoon was one of MLB's best, if not the best.

Devers was about to break his career best OPS season, in a year when hitting was down, but that got derailed by an injury, he tried to play through.

The multitude of injuries hurt our chances, but we did get some decent depth play from DHam, Romy and even D Smith.

Yoshida came back and did okay. I feel better about Story after his return.

Wong showed he was a top 10 hitting catcher, but his D was not fun to watch.

We saw Rafaela struggle with the K Zone, but WOW did he make some very impressive plays on D, while also amazing us with so many RBIs with so few hits.

Gotta hand it to Houck, who was viewed as the 6th starter by many. We lost Gio for 33 starts, Whitlock for 29 starts and others for a few, here and there. Considering this, the rotation did okay. They were mostly fun to watch.

Slaten and Jansen were about the only good things from the pen. A couple other guys had good stretches, here and there, but not enough of them.

I'm sure someone will disagree with me and claim it's no fun watching a team lose 3 years in a row, and so there is that aspect to consider, too. That part sucked.

I will say, I feel much better about our 26 and 40 man rosters . right now, that I have since before the 2019 season. I feel much better about the farm- top to bottom, now more than any time since the start of the DD era. Call me a pink hat, rose colored glasses homer, if you must, but there is a lot to be optimistic about, and there really was some fun baseball, this year.

 

i'll be the first to disagree. losing sucks and the Sox are making a habit of it thanks to John "Scrooge" Henry and the brown-nosing morons in his front office.  if (and i don't expect it to happ;en) they don't add any pitching this winter, it will be more of the same next year. The Curse of Mookie lives on.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Torn between Full Moon and Duran DaMan.

Good: emerging starting pitchers, young guys with potential to improve;

Bad: gloves with holes, heads with holes (throwing Es, runners getting picked), relievers that blow, and millions of swings and misses from a vastly overrated batting order...

Ugly: missing the playoffs again, which is unacceptable -- and not because fans are entitled, but because any fans of a club that is 10 games over .500 in the summer should be offended and totally pissed off when their team's front office chokes AGAIN in providing proper support to prevent LOSING RECORDS THE LAST TWO MONTHS OF ANOTHER SEASON.

This is the third year in a row that the Boston Red Sox had a losing record in August and a losing record in September. Anyone who blames it on injuries must work for John Henry, who won't pay the costs of maintaining roster depth for a legitimate contender.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

If the Yanks day of elimination is known as Smiley-Beni day, is this known as Beni-Smiley day?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

19 hours ago, dgalehouse said:

  The tragic number is down to two. A Royals win and a Sox loss tonight would eliminate the Sox. However, that is not likely to happen because the Royals are in free fall while the Sox are again playing the hapless Jays, who have no interest in winning. And the Royals finish the year with three in Atlanta. Doubtful they win any of those against the Braves. The Twins likewise are in need of the Heimlich maneuver. Conceding the second wild card to the Tigers, the third is still up for grabs. If Boston wins their next four games, they definitely could sneak in. 

So, you were saying?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

16 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I actually think we need 2 major rotation additions to be a top contender.

Couldn't at least half the league make the same claim?

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Couldn't at least half the league make the same claim?

Yup, if by contenders you mean "get into the playoffs."

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Yup, if by contenders you mean "get into the playoffs."

Well, that is the first step in being a contender, no?

I mean, it's tough to be a contender if you don't make the playoffs.