A Realistic View at 2024: Part III

[moonslav59]

fWAR for Sox Pitchers:

SP'ers:

3.7 Houck (16th best in MLB)

1.8 Pivetta (70th)

1.7 Bello (73rd)

1.6 Crawford (83rd)

1.1 Criswell (108th)

0.4 Whitlock (4 GS) and 0.3 Paxton (3 GS)

5 Teams with 5 SP"ers with 90+ IP and a 1.0+ fWAR: Boston, Atlanta, KC, STL and SEA, who has 5 with a 2.0 or better fWAR.

RP'ers:

1.4 Jansen (19th)

1.3 Slaten (25th)

0.8 Martin (53rd)

0.4 Weissert (111th)

0.3 Booser (132nd)

0.2 Fitts & Bernardino (162nd)

0.1 Wink

 

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

Yoshi for Mike Trout. why not?

JH's wallet.

[Randy Red Sox]

6 hours ago, notin said:

So?  Priester made the Pirates at one point, too.

And didn’t you call Yorke the Sox worst first round draft pick ever?  A statement that brought a huge sigh of relief to Jason Place, by the way…

i highly criticized the Yorke selection but I never called it the worst trade in MLB history so don't put words in my mouth please.  Of course you would be happy had we gotten Priestner with that pick right? My point here is not about Yorke but more about the ineptness of our FO and the closed wallet policy of our owner.

[Randy Red Sox]

4 hours ago, notin said:

Especially after you spent 4 months complaining about the prospect they traded away.

 

I get the idea of using this forum to express frustration.   But there is a point where one can zip right past catharsis straight into perpetual whining…

or trying to poke the bear with anyone who is critical.  After all Red Sox fans have no reason to be critical right??

[dgalehouse]

John Henry will decide just how much money is going to be spent. Don't know how flexible he will be. But let's not act like he has any ability to judge baseball talent. He has none. That is strictly up to the G.M., the manager and the various baseball people in the organization. 

[Larry Cook]

Bres-slow is after near ready MLB starting pitchers just like everybody else. 
unlike most every other team, we struggle to develop our own. 
thus far, he has traded spare parts for a veteran (Paxton).

and he has traded a quality minor leaguer for a near major league ready pitcher who needs work! 
this offseason, he should not have the same budget constraints. 
I think he tries to find young ML ready pitching for roster players and high quality prospects not named Anthony, Campbell or teel! 

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Bres-slow is after near ready MLB starting pitchers just like everybody else. 
unlike most every other team, we struggle to develop our own. 
thus far, he has traded spare parts for a veteran (Paxton).

and he has traded a quality minor leaguer for a near major league ready pitcher who needs work! 
this offseason, he should not have the same budget constraints. 
I think he tries to find young ML ready pitching for roster players and high quality prospects not named Anthony, Campbell or teel! 

He also traded Dugo for a "near ready" SP'er in Fitts (plus RP'er Weissert & far away Pitcher in Judice.

He also signed Criswell (and Gio) and traded for Sandlin, who might end up in the pen.

The Slaten trade should help the pen for years to come.

He has made some moves to try and improve the staff from the MLB club to the rookie leagues. Only time will tell how it works, or not.

I will say, he seems to be more proactive on pitching than Bloom was.

[Larry Cook]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He also traded Dugo for a "near ready" SP'er in Fitts (plus RP'er Weissert & far away Pitcher in Judice.

He also signed Criswell (and Gio) and traded for Sandlin, who might end up in the pen.

The Slaten trade should help the pen for years to come.

He has made some moves to try and improve the staff from the MLB club to the rookie leagues. Only time will tell how it works, or not.

I will say, he seems to be more proactive on pitching than Bloom was.

He does seem to prefer the trade route, and unlike hang’em Chaim, he actually completes trades! 
the GM in Seattle is a trade guy as well! 
there is a trade to be made between the two teams and as long as we get miller without losing Anthony, Campbell or teel, then it will be a good move for us. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He also traded Dugo for a "near ready" SP'er in Fitts (plus RP'er Weissert & far away Pitcher in Judice.

He also signed Criswell (and Gio) and traded for Sandlin, who might end up in the pen.

The Slaten trade should help the pen for years to come.

He has made some moves to try and improve the staff from the MLB club to the rookie leagues. Only time will tell how it works, or not.

I will say, he seems to be more proactive on pitching than Bloom was.

A good assessment, but let's not pretend Brez did all those moves on his own -- the front office lifers still outnumber him, so signing rehabbing comebackers like Hendriks and Fulmer merely continued the pattern of the Bloom Era. 

For all we know, picking up Criswell, a Bloom-like bargain bin move, was the culmination of some Asst. VP's Google search...

And I don't know about the rest of the board, but I'm still waiting to hear about the changes brought about by the independent audit on the front office.

[moonslav59]

Rentals: Paxton, Garcia & Sims

Signings: Gio, Criswell,  Hendriks, Fulmer, Anderson (Hill, Keller)

Extended: Bello

Trades: Slaten, Fitts, Priester, Weissert, I Campbell, Sandlin, Horn, Judice

Draft/IFA:  Tolle, Cason, D Reyes, Neely, Clarke, Aita, Tygart, Futrell & others

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

A good assessment, but let's not pretend Brez did all those moves on his own -- the front office lifers still outnumber him, so signing rehabbing comebackers like Hendriks and Fulmer merely continued the pattern of the Bloom Era. 

For all we know, picking up Criswell, a Bloom-like bargain bin move, was the culmination of some Asst. VP's Google search...

And I don't know about the rest of the board, but I'm still waiting to hear about the changes brought about by the independent audit on the front office.

He likely had a lot of help on those choices, but the group has been more active than any of Bloom's years and DD's last year.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

He likely had a lot of help on those choices, but the group has been more active than any of Bloom's years and DD's last year.

They're scrambling to keep their jobs, ever since Brez started stalking the halls with a hatchet in his belt.

[moonslav59]

18 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

They're scrambling to keep their jobs, ever since Brez started stalking the halls with a hatchet in his belt.

I doubt any of Brez's men get the hatchet.

[Larry Cook]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

He likely had a lot of help on those choices, but the group has been more active than any of Bloom's years and DD's last year.

Hang’em Chaim did a great job of rebuilding the baseball analytics department!  He did an amazing job! 
why he ignored pitching is beyond my ability to comprehend 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Larry Cook said:

Hang’em Chaim did a great job of rebuilding the baseball analytics department!  He did an amazing job! 
why he ignored pitching is beyond my ability to comprehend 

That's why they hung 'em

[Bellhorn04]

22-34 in our last 56.  That's .393 baseball.  Last place far from out of the question.

I hate to say it, but this is just not a good team, and the prognosis for next year is not really that great, in spite of the excitement surrounding the Fab Four.    

And we know now that John Henry is more than willing to keep punting until he thinks the time is right to get serious again.    

[moonslav59]

33 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

22-34 in our last 56.  That's .393 baseball.  Last place far from out of the question.

I hate to say it, but this is just not a good team, and the prognosis for next year is not really that great, in spite of the excitement surrounding the Fab Four.    

And we know now that John Henry is more than willing to keep punting until he thinks the time is right to get serious again.    

Agreed. This team, as is, cannot win, next year, even if 2-3 of the fab 4 do well. We need to add pitching for any chance.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

11 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I doubt any of Brez's men get the hatchet.

But some guys in the front office don't wear robes like judges who can be bribed for life...

From today's Boston Globe: 

Red Sox will not renew the contracts of a handful of longtime instructors and scouts

As part of an overhaul of the team’s pitching development efforts, three longtime pitching coordinators were informed they won’t be back.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

But some guys in the front office don't wear robes like judges who can be bribed for life...

From today's Boston Globe: 

Red Sox will not renew the contracts of a handful of longtime instructors and scouts

As part of an overhaul of the team’s pitching development efforts, three longtime pitching coordinators were informed they won’t be back.

Sad for them, but that word "longtime" highlights why we have sucked at pitcher development for abiut 2 decades. "Longterm" = 2 decades.

[Bellhorn04]

11 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

Hang’em Chaim did a great job of rebuilding the baseball analytics department!  He did an amazing job! 
why he ignored pitching is beyond my ability to comprehend 

And where are the results of the amazing job?  

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

And where are the results of the amazing job?  

He was being sarcastic.

[mvp 78]

5 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

But some guys in the front office don't wear robes like judges who can be bribed for life...

From today's Boston Globe: 

Red Sox will not renew the contracts of a handful of longtime instructors and scouts

As part of an overhaul of the team’s pitching development efforts, three longtime pitching coordinators were informed they won’t be back.

Sox were also doing that staff audit. Breslow may decide to make many more changes that we don't even hear about this offseason. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

14 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

 

I hate to say it, but this is just not a good team, and the prognosis for next year is not really that great, in spite of the excitement surrounding the Fab Four.    

 

And even that has been tempered lately -- despite "Paul" being recently knighted.

Because with "John" still in rehab and "George" vying for more than one song on an album, now we hear that "Ringo" can't grip his drumsticks... and may miss the rest of their gigs this month.

[notin]

18 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

He does seem to prefer the trade route, and unlike hang’em Chaim, he actually completes trades! 
the GM in Seattle is a trade guy as well! 
there is a trade to be made between the two teams and as long as we get miller without losing Anthony, Campbell or teel, then it will be a good move for us. 

I think if the Sox don’t want to move any of those 3 or Campbell, they may have to set their sites lower than pre-arb pitchers like Bryce Miller.

Garret Crochet seems more likely.  Reportedly the White Sox plan on cutting salary again. As they only have two players under contract (Benintendi at 3 years $49mill and Robert with 1 year $17mill), this presumably means the arbitration-eligible players are available.  The bulk of their arb-eligible deals are for some fairly fungible players like Nicky Lopez, Andrew Vaughn and Gavin Sheets.  The one player with any real value is Crochet, who has 2 arb years left and has expressed interest in an extension.   He absolutely fits the Sox primary need, but will obviously be expensive. Hopefully a package headlined by Braden Montgomery and Franklin Arias is enough, and it does help that both were BA Top 100 prospects in the most recent rankings.   Neither is particularly close to MLB, but given the prospects the White Sox acquired in July, that didn’t seem to be a priority…

[notin]

15 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

22-34 in our last 56.  That's .393 baseball.  Last place far from out of the question.

I hate to say it, but this is just not a good team, and the prognosis for next year is not really that great, in spite of the excitement surrounding the Fab Four.    

And we know now that John Henry is more than willing to keep punting until he thinks the time is right to get serious again.    

The plan when Bloom was hired was to build a sustainable farm that could keep the team competitive without the heavy reliance on free agent spending.  I’m afraid that your definition of “get serious again” is something we may never see again…

[notin]

22 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

Yoshi for Mike Trout. why not?

Mike Trout has 6 years left on a deal that pays him $37.2mill annually and has only played in 266 games in the past 4 seasons.

The Angels would be insane not to trade him for Yoshida.  Trout’s a part time player paid more than half of the entire Oakland A’s payroll..,

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

21 minutes ago, notin said:

I think if the Sox don’t want to move any of those 3 or Campbell, they may have to set their sites lower than pre-arb pitchers like Bryce Miller.

Garret Crochet seems more likely.  Reportedly the White Sox plan on cutting salary again. As they only have two players under contract (Benintendi at 3 years $49mill and Robert with 1 year $17mill), this presumably means the arbitration-eligible players are available.  The bulk of their arb-eligible deals are for some fairly fungible players like Nicky Lopez, Andrew Vaughn and Gavin Sheets.  The one player with any real value is Crochet, who has 2 arb years left and has expressed interest in an extension.   He absolutely fits the Sox primary need, but will obviously be expensive. Hopefully a package headlined by Braden Montgomery and Franklin Arias is enough, and it does help that both were BA Top 100 prospects in the most recent rankings.   Neither is particularly close to MLB, but given the prospects the White Sox acquired in July, that didn’t seem to be a priority…

So Crochet would  leave Sox with holes in their toes to play for the bloody Sox -- but for the right price, he'd sell them his sole.

Darn. Sounds like a heel.

[moonslav59]

19 minutes ago, notin said:

I think if the Sox don’t want to move any of those 3 or Campbell, they may have to set their sites lower than pre-arb pitchers like Bryce Miller.

Garret Crochet seems more likely.  Reportedly the White Sox plan on cutting salary again. As they only have two players under contract (Benintendi at 3 years $49mill and Robert with 1 year $17mill), this presumably means the arbitration-eligible players are available.  The bulk of their arb-eligible deals are for some fairly fungible players like Nicky Lopez, Andrew Vaughn and Gavin Sheets.  The one player with any real value is Crochet, who has 2 arb years left and has expressed interest in an extension.   He absolutely fits the Sox primary need, but will obviously be expensive. Hopefully a package headlined by Braden Montgomery and Franklin Arias is enough, and it does help that both were BA Top 100 prospects in the most recent rankings.   Neither is particularly close to MLB, but given the prospects the White Sox acquired in July, that didn’t seem to be a priority…

They might be one team interested in "far away" prospects," but I think they can and will rightfully demand a top 4 prospect from us.

I think I'd rather have 5 years of Bryce Miller than 2 of Crochet, but if he would agree to a reasonable extension, I'd think more about him. He's only 25, so giving him a long extension might work out well. 

Anything we do involves a big risk.

Parting with a big 4 prospect is very risky.

Campbell is the only RHB of the 4 and is very athletic. He has not proven he is a plus defender at any position, but he should be able to at 2B, CF or RF- maybe 3B. To me, he is second to...

Anthony is the cream of the cream. He seems like the no-brainer "keeper," but he is also the one guy nobody else can top with a better headliner. You get what you pay for, and he should get the best of the best.

Mayer plays a position we have had issues with since Bogey bolted, and we haven't had a plus defender at SS since pre-Bogey, unless you count the ever-absent Story. To me, he may be the best choice to trade, despite our higher need for middle infield than CF/RF (Anthony.)

Teel looks to be a plus defensive catcher who may also be a good hitter. Those are too hard to find to part with very easily. With Wong's defense seemingly not improving, he may be deemed a "keeper."

Keeping all 4 does allow us to trade Abreu and DHam, but what do they bring us back? A package of Arias, Montgomery, Abreu and DHam might be good enough. Who knows?

[moonslav59]

28 minutes ago, notin said:

Mike Trout has 6 years left on a deal that pays him $37.2mill annually and has only played in 266 games in the past 4 seasons.

The Angels would be insane not to trade him for Yoshida.  Trout’s a part time player paid more than half of the entire Oakland A’s payroll..,

If he agreed to DH only, maybe he'd play more games.

We'd need LAA to kick in some serious money for me to be okay with that trade. Even Story + Yoshida would not be enough- moneywise.

No way JH takes on that full salary.

[notin]

21 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If he agreed to DH only, maybe he'd play more games.

We'd need LAA to kick in some serious money for me to be okay with that trade. Even Story + Yoshida would not be enough- moneywise.

No way JH takes on that full salary.

The Angels couldn’t even get him to agree to move to a corner OF slot to not only help him stay on the field but also accommodate Brandon Marsh.  Maybe now that he’s missed a lot of time, he’d agree to LF/RF.  But DH seems like a stretch…