6/23 SOX @ Reds 1:40PM ET

[Bellhorn04]

Not even close to one. He's shown no sign of decline and is doing better in almost every category, except RBI-related ones. (BTW, I'm not one who believes that clutch is a sustainable skillset.)

 

He's just now entering peak prime, so no, I do not expect or see any sign of decline.

 

Ask me in 2-3 years.

 

For his career Devers is averaging 106 RBI per 162 games. He's just been having one of those years of making a lot of outs with men on. But that's bound to turn around.

[moonslav59]

If the SOX are still in PO contention by the TDL, I don't see how they can trade Kenley and/or Martin.

 

It would sure upset a lot of fans.

 

This season, has a feel like 2021. Not many had high expectations going into either season, and a bunch of things went right that overpowered the bunch that went wrong.

 

The Schwarber acquisition was a big part of the continued success and near ALCS championship. Lesser pick-ups like Iggy, Shaw and Robles helped, too. The highest ranked prospect we gave up, that year, was Aldo Ramirez. I could see Brez trying to do something along those lines, this deadline.

 

Maybe we trade O'Neill and also acquire a couple key pieces.

 

A couple weeks ago, I was feeling like we were at about a 90% sel chance. Now, it looks under 50-50.

[Bellhorn04]

Jansen is pitching himself into being indispensable.

[Old Red]

It would sure upset a lot of fans.

 

This season, has a feel like 2021. Not many had high expectations going into either season, and a bunch of things went right that overpowered the bunch that went wrong.

 

The Schwarber acquisition was a big part of the continued success and near ALCS championship. Lesser pick-ups like Iggy, Shaw and Robles helped, too. The highest ranked prospect we gave up, that year, was Aldo Ramirez. I could see Brez trying to do something along those lines, this deadline.

 

Maybe we trade O'Neill and also acquire a couple key pieces.

 

A couple weeks ago, I was feeling like we were at about a 90% sel chance. Now, it looks under 50-50.

 

Forget about it upsetting those crybaby fans as you call them, but MORE importantly it would upset, and piss off the players in that clubhouse.

[moonslav59]

Jansen has become the beats he once was.

 

Some of us were questioning his apparent declining trend, earlier this year, but man o man, were we wrong.

 

This team has a lot of heart and soul. I'm not sure those are the best words. Maybe "grit" is better, but you gotta feel the shift in attitude and confidence.

 

We are coming back in games, in series and overcoming some bad trends we saw earlier in the season and in May.

 

We should all know, we will have a rough patch or two, at some point, but I'm feeling more and more confident we can keep those stretches short and the good ones, longer.

[Old Red]

For his career Devers is averaging 106 RBI per 162 games. He's just been having one of those years of making a lot of outs with men on. But that's bound to turn around.

 

Devers in some fans eyes can go from Devers Forever to Never Devers from game to game, and sometimes pitch to pitch. Some just don’t get that point.

[vegasbob]

Another series win over a team that the Sox should beat . Used up a lot of BP going into next week. . All the buy-sell talk will have to wait. This group is on a nice roll that needs to run deep into July to confirm if we need/want help or could they benefit by moving 1 or 2 and gaining different skills.

 

Good Game, Red Sox !

[Thunder]

Wong and Duran need to be all stars. They probably won’t but both deserve it and then some

[moonslav59]

For his career Devers is averaging 106 RBI per 162 games. He's just been having one of those years of making a lot of outs with men on. But that's bound to turn around.

 

No doubt, he's having a rough time in those specific situations which amount to these sample sizes:

 

78 PAs w RISP (When you factor in he was walked 12 of those 78, his chances for rbis other than by HR was 62 ABs) 25 RBI in 62 ABs

 

138 PAs w Men on Base (116 ABs) 30 RBI in 116 ABs

 

All hitters have ups and downs, within a season and from season to season. I'm not reading into this low RBI start as much as others, but it certainly has hurt our chances at winning more than we have.

 

[notin]

Wong and Duran need to be all stars. They probably won’t but both deserve it and then some

 

Duran is 5th in fWAR among AL outfielders. Wong leads AL catchers in fWAR.

 

If you like fWAR as a measure of worthiness for the All Star game, Wong is a no brainer to make the team. Duran would also deserve it, but his spot could be lost to some players who is a sole team rep…

[moonslav59]

Duran is 5th in fWAR among AL outfielders. Wong leads AL catchers in fWAR.

 

If you like fWAR as a measure of worthiness for the All Star game, Wong is a no brainer to make the team. Duran would also deserve it, but his spot could be lost to some players who is a sole team rep…

 

While he is 5th in fWAR among OF'ers, there is also this:

 

He was 0.1 behind Tucker, before today. He may be tied, now.

He is T7th in overall AL fWAR, which is a pretty good tool for measuring the overall value of players.

 

I think he belongs, along with Wong and Houck, but it would not surprise me, if Houck is our only rep.

 

I do not think fWAR is what most fans look at before voting.

[Oscars]

What to do with Yoshida?

He is providing nothing to the team this season …..

[Maxbialystock]

Jansen has become the beats he once was.

 

Some of us were questioning his apparent declining trend, earlier this year, but man o man, were we wrong.

 

This team has a lot of heart and soul. I'm not sure those are the best words. Maybe "grit" is better, but you gotta feel the shift in attitude and confidence.

 

We are coming back in games, in series and overcoming some bad trends we saw earlier in the season and in May.

 

We should all know, we will have a rough patch or two, at some point, but I'm feeling more and more confident we can keep those stretches short and the good ones, longer.

 

Three days ago, before the series in Cincy, I was the only one saying the Sox were/are in the hunt for the postseason. And right now--and I agree there are bound to be more ups and downs--the Sox are ahead of the Royals for the 3d wild card and 1/2 game behind the Twins for the 2d wild card.

 

It's primarily the no-name pitching, which, as you say, lately is getting some support from the no-name lineup. And the bad-name defense is slightly mitigated by the no-name base-running.

 

What might have turned the tide was 8 days ago when Jansen called Cora from the bullpen and said "put me in" against the Yankees in the 8th inning when the score was 6-4 Sox and the Yankees had 2 on and 2 out. Cora did put him in, and he got 4 outs. That was real leadership by Jansen and the message was simple: we're here to win games--and we can!

Edited June 23, 2024 by Maxbialystock

[Jasonbay44]

Jarren Duran is such an awesome player. Every day he is making in impact in some sort of way

[Oscars]

Three days ago, before the series in Cincy, I was the only one saying the Sox were/are in the hunt for the postseason. And right now--and I agree there are bound to be more ups and downs--the Sox are ahead of the Royals for the 3d wild card and 1/2 game behind the Twins for the 2d wild card.

 

It's primarily the no-name pitching, which, as you say, lately is getting some support from the no-name lineup. And the bad-name defense is slightly mitigated by the no-name base-running.

 

What might have turned the tide was 8 days ago when Jansen called Cora from the bullpen and said "put me in" against the Yankees in the 8th inning when the score was 6-4 Sox and the Yankees had 2 on and 2 out. Cora did put him in, and he got 4 outs. That was real leadership by Jansen and the message was simple: we're here to win games--and we can!

 

Jarren Duran is such an awesome player. Every day he is making in impact in some sort of way

 

He has become my Red Sox favourite player, with his combination of good defence, bat to ball skills, power, base running and all out effort playing every game.

[Jasonbay44]

Also, Zack Kelly has been an unsung hero for this team. He’s been awesome

[vegasbob]

What to do with Yoshida?

He is providing nothing to the team this season …..

 

This one is a true dilemma. On the surface , Cora has committed the DH slot to him which may be a showcasing technique. However, Yoshi is not performing like a showcaser. I think his thumb injury will be chronic for this year and is affecting his hitting.

 

The contract is a sunk cost and the Sox may wind up eating a lot of sushi . I think they will carry him through the season and into the offseason, see if his thumb fully heals . A light hitting, slow running DH only is a liability not an asset. Most likely he is back at ST and they will see if he can hit or not.

[moonslav59]

The Yoshida Issue may end up solving itself, if he does nothing over the next 1-3 weeks. It's hard to imagine the leash being longer than that, if he keeps doing little or nothing.

 

It would be one thing, if he was replacing players hitting in the 5 or 6 hundreds, but he's not, and I'm not just talking "hot hand," here. Some of these guys are hitting better than he is and better than his career .754 for this full season.

 

Of course, we have to realize some of the guys hitting better than him may be on unsustainable paths, and can come crashing down to earth, at any moment. If they do, even Yoshida at .600 to .650 might be an upgrade, but it's hard to project this to happen, right now. Valdez, DHam and Romy don't seem to be letting up. Ref and O'Neill are both hitting like they deserve a FT slot in the order. Abreu is back off the IL and absolutely kills RHPs.

 

If Yoshida could play 1B, we could play him there, until Casas returns, but he doesn't. Our OF is already squeezed with the Abreu return and Ref going nutty, again. Moving Rafaela to SS helps a bit, and squeezing Vadlez/DHam/Romy looks to be better than squeezing Duran/O'Neill/Abreu/Refsnyder. It looks like DH is the only place for him, but it had been a place to get Ref, O'Neill, Valdez and others some more playing time, and they have been rocking the joint.

 

To me, when healthy, these guys need to play almost exclusively FT:

 

Devers 3B

Wong C (as much as we can without burning out his legs)

Casas 1B

Duran LF (CF when Rafaela plays SS)

Rafaela CF/SS

O'Neill LF/RF/DH

Refsnyder DH/LF/CF

 

That's seven slots taken.

 

Abreu should start vs all RHPs, and Valdez & DHam have done well enough to keep playing vs RHPs, too, but Yoshida will get the look over them, if possible. Since Yoshida does not play 2B, he won't beat them out, there. Sadly, it will come down to benching an OF'er vs RHPs, so Yoshida can DH.

 

Oddly, Yoshida has a better situation to DH vs LHPs, due to the unbalanced nature of our batters, especially the OF. Since Abreu sucks vs LHPs, he's an easy platoon choice. Valdez has not earned the right to start vs LHPs, either, so DHam and Romy can play 2B or 2B & SS, as Rafaela plays CF (or SS.) We could play Rafaela at SS, Duran in CF, Refsnyder in LF and O'Neill in RF with Yoshida at DH.

 

It's too early for me to say we should DFA him, if nobody takes him off our hands at 10-20% of his cost, or even 5%. He could still find a groove and redeem himself, but at whose expense?

 

[moonslav59]

Also, Zack Kelly has been an unsung hero for this team. He’s been awesome

 

Some of these bargain basement additions from the past have started to pay off for us. Some of this year's, too.

 

On Kelly, before tonight, he had the best OPS Against on the team at .450. Only Jansen (.499) and Houck (.528) are even close.

 

What might be surprising to some is that he has more PAs Against (batters faced) than Jansen and Martin and almost as much as Booser and Bernardino.

 

While the 13 BBs is concerning, the .125 BA Against makes up for it. He's only let up 3 XBHs in 88 ABs.

[Duran Is The Man]

He has become my Red Sox favourite player, with his combination of good defence, bat to ball skills, power, base running and all out effort playing every game.

 

same here.

[moonslav59]

Duran has really been an incredible story and turnaround in almost every aspect of the game.

 

You'd have to try hard to not become a big fan of his.

 

That great catch he made was not a fluke. He has remade himself into an excellent defender in an amazingly short timespan.

 

I don't remember a young player who tweaked and readjusted his batting approach, stance and attitude more than Duran.

 

Add the baserunning maturity and aggressiveness and we have one of baseball's best all around players in less than 2 full seasons.

 

He's not a young kid, anymore. He turns 28, soon, which is considered prime. We are so blessed to have him for 4 arb years (through 2028.)

 

[vegasbob]

Duran has been a great example for the other young guys now on the 26 , showing how you can up your game, and eventually get to a payday. Jarren took a bad situation and attitude in his initial promotion to the Red Sox but fully turned that around

 

He became a slash hitter , not too many bouncers to 2Bman. Are you with us, Yoshi ?

 

Final thought on Yoshi, it is not his fault that Bloom went out of character and overpaid for a limited portfolio player . It is hard to see how Yoshida would be very comfortable on a team without a fellow countryman , playing at a level he may not have considered while in Japan. Take the money Yoshi, it's all yours.

Edited June 24, 2024 by vegasbob

[Bellhorn04]

Duran has been a great example for the other young guys now on the 26 , showing how you can up your game, and eventually get to a payday. Jarren took a bad situation and attitude in his initial promotion to the Red Sox but fully turned that around

 

He became a slash hitter , not too many bouncers to 2Bman. Are you with us, Yoshi ?

 

Final thought on Yoshi, it is not his fault that Bloom went out of character and overpaid for a limited portfolio player . It is hard to see how Yoshida would be very comfortable on a team without a fellow countryman , playing at a level he may not have considered while in Japan. Take the money Yoshi, it's all yours.

 

Maybe trade Yoshida to the Halos in the offseason, eating 60-70% of the contract.

[moonslav59]

Maybe trade Yoshida to the Halos in the offseason, eating 60-70% of the contract.

 

I'm thinking it will take us eating 75-85% of the contract for there to be a taker.

 

Now, maybe we include Winckowski and get a team to pay 25-35%.

[mvp 78]

I'm thinking it will take us eating 75-85% of the contract for there to be a taker.

 

Now, maybe we include Winckowski and get a team to pay 25-35%.

 

Winckowski is not worth 50% of the Yoshida contract. That's laughable.

[Old Red]

Winckowski is not worth 50% of the Yoshida contract. That's laughable.

 

🙈🤭😀.

[Old Red]

Maybe trade Yoshida to the Halos in the offseason, eating 60-70% of the contract.

 

Maybe Bloom will put in a good word for him, and the Cardinals will take him off the Red Sox hands.

[moonslav59]

Winckowski is not worth 50% of the Yoshida contract. That's laughable.

 

Try re-reading my post. I said WE would eat 75-85%, meaning the other team 15-25%. If they get wink, they'd pay 25-35%.

 

How is that 50% more?

[Old Red]

Try re-reading my post. I said WE would eat 75-85%, meaning the other team 15-25%. If they get wink, they'd pay 25-35%.

 

How is that 50% more?

You always want to sell players off, and or eat salary.

[vegasbob]

I'm thinking it will take us eating 75-85% of the contract for there to be a taker.

 

Now, maybe we include Winckowski and get a team to pay 25-35%.

 

In regards to Bellhorn's and Moon's comments above , the Angel's would actually be a perfect dumping ground for Yoshi and they desperately need pitching, so Winckowski who was once good enough for the Red Sox would actually help the Angels. They do not have a decent DH on that team The ttrick is who to ask for or accept in a trade.

 

Ask for Tyler Anderson LHP'er, maybe Jose Marte reliever, Ben Joyce 23 yr old RH'er, Roansy Contreras 24 RH'er. I do not know their MiLB system players but there is virtually no one on the MLB player position roster who would be an upgrade to the 2024 Red Sox. Mike Trout may be a little rich for JH, and he doesn't play a lot.