Red Sox 2024 Spring Training

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Wouldn’t those home records be built off of facing minor leaguers sent on bus trips to road games?

 

Ha- right, he said you'd better win those... he didn't mention the Sox, but did say Miami fans should be worried that the Marlins are only 1-8 at home.

[notin]

so you think that tightwad Henry will approve a 5-6 year deal on Montgomery?

 

Not sure if he will, but he should.

 

I get the notion of these long term deals is to get the production up front and the last few years are albatross. But the Sox have already started stockpiling 2025 anyway with Hendricks and Fulmer and now Giolito (and unfortunately not Woodruff). At this point, adding Montgomery for 2025 makes more sense than waiting a year to pay even more for even longer contracts from Fried/Burnes/Bieber/Buehler...

[moonslav59]

so you think that tightwad Henry will approve a 5-6 year deal on Montgomery?

 

Saying I am "highly suspect" means I think JH will approve?

 

Also, it will not be 5-6 years, IMO. It will be 3-4 with a possible 5th year option & buyout.

[moonslav59]

Not sure if he will, but he should.

 

Yes, saying we think we should does not mean we think it might or will happen.

 

There are some reports that say we are still in the mix, but I serious doubt we get the prize.

[Randy Red Sox]

Saying I am "highly suspect" means I think JH will approve?

 

Also, it will not be 5-6 years, IMO. It will be 3-4 with a possible 5th year option & buyout.

 

i think he either signs a 1 year deal or sticks to the longer deal he has been after all along. A 3 year deal means that he likely won't get a big payday then. I think Bora$$ has overplayed his hand on Montgomery. A better than average SP but not an ace.

[Bellhorn04]

i think he either signs a 1 year deal or sticks to the longer deal he has been after all along. A 3 year deal means that he likely won't get a big payday then. I think Bora$$ has overplayed his hand on Montgomery. A better than average SP but not an ace.

 

Boras seems to have overplayed his hand on Snell, Montgomery, Bellinger, Chapman and JDM.

 

Teams just weren't as much in the mood to spend this offseason. I think there are some numbers spooking them.

[moonslav59]

i think he either signs a 1 year deal or sticks to the longer deal he has been after all along. A 3 year deal means that he likely won't get a big payday then. I think Bora$$ has overplayed his hand on Montgomery. A better than average SP but not an ace.

 

3 years will bring a higher AAV than 5, but it might be his last "big payday."

 

I agree that BorA$$ blew it with these guys.

[moonslav59]

Boras seems to have overplayed his hand on Snell, Montgomery, Bellinger, Chapman and JDM.

 

Teams just weren't as much in the mood to spend this offseason. I think there are some numbers spooking them.

 

It was a strange off season that saw some outlandish long term deals, and then some deals to very good players seemingly underpaid.

[Randy Red Sox]

Boras seems to have overplayed his hand on Snell, Montgomery, Bellinger, Chapman and JDM.

 

Teams just weren't as much in the mood to spend this offseason. I think there are some numbers spooking them.

 

at this point I am so pi$$ed at John Henry that I would not be disappointed if they finish last again which I am confident they will

[Hugh2]

At this point an upgrade to the rotation would be like making home improvements right before the bank repos your home

 

This team is weak.

[Bellhorn04]

At this point an upgrade to the rotation would be like making home improvements right before the bank repos your home

 

This team is weak.

 

To me that's self-fulfilling prophecy stuff. "There's no point trying to get better because we still won't be good enough."

 

Projections still have us around 80 wins, I think.

[notin]

At this point an upgrade to the rotation would be like making home improvements right before the bank repos your home

 

This team is weak.

 

 

Not necessarily true.

 

First of all, they don’t need to sign a pitcher to a one year deal. With Giolito, Hendricks and Fulmer back in 2025, it’s actually ok to grab an improvement to that rotation now.

 

But a big difference maker like Montgomery might be enough to put the Sox into the postseason. They did win 78 games last year with that rotation after all. And they were in the hunt when they punted the trade deadline…

[Bellhorn04]

Here is a crazy but true statement:

 

The teams that met in the 2023 World Series are both under .500 over the last two regular seasons combined...

[notin]

Here is a crazy but true statement:

 

The teams that met in the 2023 World Series are both under .500 over the last two regular seasons combined...

 

Both were worse than the last place Sox in 2022…

[notin]

At this point an upgrade to the rotation would be like making home improvements right before the bank repos your home

 

This team is weak.

 

To further disprove this statement, the Rangers spent big added to their infield after a 60-102 season in 2021, and only improved to 68-94. But those moves certainly paid off in 2023…

[Bellhorn04]

Both were worse than the last place Sox in 2022…

 

And in spite of this a lot of people seem to be buying into the idea that you have to be "ready" to take a run at a championship, and totally overlooking the massive crapshoot factor of the last few seasons. Teams winning less than 90 in the WS while the Dodgers win 100+ and watch the Series on TV.

[notin]

And in spite of this a lot of people seem to be buying into the idea that you have to be "ready" to take a run at a championship, and totally overlooking the massive crapshoot factor of the last few seasons. Teams winning less than 90 in the WS while the Dodgers win 100+ and watch the Series on TV.

 

This is why I’ve been hopeful the Sox will just make that one addition. There’s no such thing as “timing”; much like “rebuilding”, it just means you want to save cash.

 

I certainly hope that’s all it is right now a euphemism for being cheap. I do like to think the folks running the Sox aren’t so stupid they they’ve leveraged their entire future on a bunch of minor leaguers with ZERO combined games in AAA…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Kudos to posters for calling it like it is about the Red Sox not spending to actually upgrade and improve the club this year (the only one any of us are guaranteed to be fans of... at least right now)

 

Bellhorn calls out the Red Sox for the con of waiting until being '"ready" to take a run at a championship"... Notin calls out the excuse of timing and rebuilding (currently on Year freakin 5): "all it is right now a euphemism for being cheap"

 

Both may have cited Boston's budget in the past half decade when it was still a Top 5 spender in the industry... of course, in Beantown there's always a wasteful chunk paying off dead contracts of injured or jettisoned players not to wear the Sox uniform. Meanwhile, top talent keeps signing with competitors every offseason (and a lot of that top talent tops the performances of Story and Yoshida the past few seasons).

 

It may be rare for clubs -- after recruiting top talent -- to actually win the World Series that year. But we also know it's even harder to win it all with only bottom talent.

[Hugh2]

To me that's self-fulfilling prophecy stuff. "There's no point trying to get better because we still won't be good enough."

 

Projections still have us around 80 wins, I think.

 

This becomes true if you believe in building thru free agency alone. A lot of people agree with that sentiment, it’s not about not spending, it’s about timing. This isn’t exactly the time to go big.

 

If I was the Sox I’d stand my ground, and be willing to accept Montgomery on our terms.

[Larry Cook]

I think sogard has just played his way to the minors today

[moonslav59]

At this point an upgrade to the rotation would be like making home improvements right before the bank repos your home

 

This team is weak.

 

I think our offense is top 10 and better than 2-3 other teams in our division.

 

I think our pen is top 10-12, if not overused.

 

I think our defense improved from 30th to maybe 15-20th.

 

Greatly improving the rotation could make us a playoff contender, but we'd need so much to go right.

 

One point about needing things to go right. We don't really need career years from a lot of player. Just coming close to recent years on more than a few.

 

We also have several options of players needed to do well at some positions.

 

I'm not saying we should be favorites to even make the last WC slot, but we could get real close with Monty.

[moonslav59]

I think sogard has just played his way to the minors today

 

He was never going to make the 40, let alone 26.

 

BTW, soxprospects.com has him projected on the bench to start the AAA season.

[Hugh2]

To further disprove this statement, the Rangers spent big added to their infield after a 60-102 season in 2021, and only improved to 68-94. But those moves certainly paid off in 2023…

So we should spend money now so we can pay Jordan from ages 32 and on when the team is good again? Why not just sign younger and better players in a year or two? Or extend our own players now to save money later?

[moonslav59]

So we should spend money now so we can pay Jordan from ages 32 and on when the team is good again? Why not just sign younger and better players in a year or two? Or extend our own players now to save money later?

 

Why?

 

Because maybe we can compete in '24 and '25.

 

I'm not saying your idea is not a good one. If we truly are ounting, then Monty makes little sense.

 

I'm not so sure we will sign "younger and better" pitchers, later. They cost more, and JH might not ever snap out of this funk.

 

I don't think Monty is going to get the years and dollars some think he will. We'll see.

[Oscars]

Why?

 

Because maybe we can compete in '24 and '25.

 

I'm not saying your idea is not a good one. If we truly are ounting, then Monty makes little sense.

 

I'm not so sure we will sign "younger and better" pitchers, later. They cost more, and JH might not ever snap out of this funk.

 

I don't think Monty is going to get the years and dollars some think he will. We'll see.

 

Buying younger and better players when the team is ready sounds great, but it appears currently the Red Sox are not a desirable club for free agents .

[Bellhorn04]

Buying younger and better players when the team is ready sounds great, but it appears currently the Red Sox are not a desirable club for free agents .

 

The team that's most desirable is usually the one that offers the most money.

[Old Red]

The team that's most desirable is usually the one that offers the most money.

 

Like the team who signed Gio.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There are so many reasons -- besides trying to win the World Series this year -- to upgrade any starting rotation with established MLB winners, ERAers, WHIPers and FIPers:

 

1. Inning eaters who take a regular turn give the rest of the staff a break; bullpens are less taxed, and better able to relieve the starts of other rotation members, free to be themselves and pitch with impunity, knowing fresh arms are ready in reserve behind them.

 

2. Not only can reason #1 prevent physical and mental injuries on the roster this year, such health can carry over into subsequent seasons... and thus expedite the "timing" for contention.

 

3. Reason #1 can also take the pressure off an ace's defense and offense, and lead to Reason #2...

 

4. ... because virtually every retired player who is now manager, coach or media voice continually extols the value of having veteran leadership in the clubhouse, dugout and bullpen -- someone who can not only teach younger teammates, but also show how it's done on the field (something Cora, Breslow and Bailey can no longer do).

 

5. Prices for quality starting pitchers are always going to increase -- and you've got to start somewhere.

[Bellhorn04]

There are so many reasons -- besides trying to win the World Series this year -- to upgrade any starting rotation with established MLB winners, ERAers, WHIPers and FIPers:

 

1. Inning eaters who take a regular turn give the rest of the staff a break; bullpens are less taxed, and better able to relieve the starts of other rotation members, free to be themselves and pitch with impunity, knowing fresh arms are ready in reserve behind them.

 

2. Not only can reason #1 prevent physical and mental injuries on the roster this year, such health can carry over into subsequent seasons... and thus expedite the "timing" for contention.

 

3. Reason #1 can also take the pressure off an ace's defense and offense, and lead to Reason #2...

 

4. ... because virtually every retired player who is now manager, coach or media voice continually extols the value of having veteran leadership in the clubhouse, dugout and bullpen -- someone who can not only teach younger teammates, but also show how it's done on the field (something Cora, Breslow and Bailey can no longer do).

 

5. Prices for quality starting pitchers are always going to increase -- and you've got to start somewhere.

 

And they did sign an innings eater, but he won't throw a pitch for us this year, so they might want to think about signing another innings eater to take his place...

[notin]

So we should spend money now so we can pay Jordan from ages 32 and on when the team is good again? Why not just sign younger and better players in a year or two? Or extend our own players now to save money later?

 

1. Besides the already extended Bello, do we have a bunch of pitchers we can extend?

 

2. Those “younger and better” players you want to sign are not in the same position as Montgomery - running out of options and not carrying a qualifying offer. Not to mention other teams will be interested in them as well.

 

3. You’re supporting questionable circular logic. “We won’t be good until we spend on pitching, but we shouldn’t spend on pitching until we’re good.” Well, at least it’s a financially sound plan…

Edited March 17, 2024 by notin