Red Sox ownership

[Hugh2]

I don’t have to lie like you to make a point, I’d admit when I’m wrong. And I have more of a track record in here of just that than most.

 

[insert emojis like a teenage girl here]

 

What I said was I understand that sometimes teams have to kick in money to make a trade work.

 

You’re the one who claims you like the trade, but don’t like giving up the money at the same time and then have been on a tirade about against trade ever since. Show some conviction here, you have to give something to get something.

 

What I actually SAID was if the Sox were willing to sign Montgomery to a contract, or if they were willing to sign Snell to a contract. $17 million dollars in ONE year isn’t changing that.

 

You’re making it sound like the Red Sox won’t sign one of those guys because of this deal. That’s just mindboggingly incorrect. The Sox have said time after time, they would go over the luxury tax for the right person. Meaning, if they like Snell at 150/6, they’d sign him at that contract whether or not it puts them over the cap.

 

Ownership has said they will do this.

 

Now that natural rebuttal is. Why believe ownership?

 

Well that’s precisely what you’re doing in your belief that the Sox have a budget. Because they’ve told us so. You don’t get to pick and chose which things you believe in coming out of the front office then call someone stupid just because they have a different opinion based on those same sources you reference. And just to be clear on this, there’s more recent precedent of the Sox going over the luxury tax limit than there is them signing quality free agent pitchers.

 

So let me state my point again, as clear as daylight, so we all know why RED thinks I’m stupid. [insert little girl smiley, monkey face emojis here]

 

$17 million dollars not saved on Chris Sales contract for ONE year will not have any affect on whether or not they sign Snell or Montgomery. Whatever price they would or would not sign those guys at is 100% unchanged by that deal.

 

 

We get it. When Grissom is good you will say you always liked the trade. When the pitching is bad, you’ll say we could have gone out and got a pitcher that we were never going to sign anyways with that extra $17 million. You’re hugging the line, you’re going to take credit for being right about that trade no matter what happens with it.

 

You lack conviction. [insert monkey, blush face unicorn emojis here].

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

At Winter Weekend, Tom Werner and others reminisced how Fenway rocked when the Sox whupped the Yankees in the 2021 Wild Card game. It was a reminder of how intense the fanbase can get again -- and it all it takes is a winner.

 

That '21 postseason isn't even three years old now, and here's who's left on Boston's roster -- position players: Devers; pitching staff: Pivetta, Whitlock, Houck.

 

Dalbec is still around, but not exactly a lock to break camp. In three rounds in '21, he hit .000 (oh-for-12). Duran and Wong saw some playing time in that regular season. That's it.

 

The point is, Tom, that it's a lot easier for a fanbase to root for a club with continuity, for familiarity, for regulars. Constantly replacing players with replacement players only sustains suckitude disguised as mediocrity.

 

Show us some plan, any plan, to keep a core. Lock up Casas and Bello longterm, so Sam Kennedy can finally be truthful about something by signing someone for big money. If you pay them soon, it won't have to be so big that you keep misreading the realities of the market... like you did with Mookie year-after-year until he was gone.

[moonslav59]

At Winter Weekend, Tom Werner and others reminisced how Fenway rocked when the Sox whupped the Yankees in the 2021 Wild Card game. It was a reminder of how intense the fanbase can get again -- and it all it takes is a winner.

 

That '21 postseason isn't even three years old now, and here's who's left on Boston's roster -- position players: Devers; pitching staff: Pivetta, Whitlock, Houck.

 

Dalbec is still around, but not exactly a lock to break camp. In three rounds in '21, he hit .000 (oh-for-12). Duran and Wong saw some playing time in that regular season. That's it.

 

The point is, Tom, that it's a lot easier for a fanbase to root for a club with continuity, for familiarity, for regulars. Constantly replacing players with replacement players only sustains suckitude disguised as mediocrity.

 

Show us some plan, any plan, to keep a core. Lock up Casas and Bello longterm, so Sam Kennedy can finally be truthful about something by signing someone for big money. If you pay them soon, it won't have to be so big that you keep misreading the realities of the market... like you did with Mookie year-after-year until he was gone.

 

You make good points, but I do want to point out a few things about the top 26 players of 2021 by playing time:

 

Pitching (listed by most IP)

Nate: a big loss that has not been replaced with the likes of Giolito, although GIO rates to give us more GS.

ERod was not replaced (Bello)

Pivetta is still here and about the same as '21- maybe better, now.

Richards is easy to replace. I'm glad he's gone.

Perez: see Richards

Whitlock is back but more questionable than in '21.

Houck is back and hard to guess his '24 projection.

Ottavino is not as good as our pen guys, now. (Martin)

Barnes was not as good as Jansen.

Sawamura: If we can't improve on him, yikes!

Josh Taylor was pretty good- so is Wink.

Sale could never be counted on.

DHern/ P Valdez/ Andriese are easily improved upon in 2023.

 

The line-up is where we take a beating at several slots:

(listed by most PAs)

Devers- the same

JD Martinez- a step down by Yoshida

Verdugo- maybe O'Neill can give us the same

Bogey to Story looks like an overall step down, but health could change that.

Kike in '21 was damn good, but do we really wish he was still here?

Renfroe is replace by Duran. I'd rather have Duran.

Vaz is past prime. I'd rather have Wong/McGuire than Vaz/Plawecki

Dalbec was worse than Casas.

Marwin was horrible (replaced by Rafaela/Abreu/Ref)

Arroyo was worse than what Grissom should be.

Corder/Santana/Schwarber replaced by Abreu/Rafaela/Refsnyder/Reyes- even?

 

 

 

[jad]

At Winter Weekend, Tom Werner and others reminisced how Fenway rocked when the Sox whupped the Yankees in the 2021 Wild Card game. It was a reminder of how intense the fanbase can get again -- and it all it takes is a winner.

 

That '21 postseason isn't even three years old now, and here's who's left on Boston's roster -- position players: Devers; pitching staff: Pivetta, Whitlock, Houck.

 

Dalbec is still around, but not exactly a lock to break camp. In three rounds in '21, he hit .000 (oh-for-12). Duran and Wong saw some playing time in that regular season. That's it.

 

The point is, Tom, that it's a lot easier for a fanbase to root for a club with continuity, for familiarity, for regulars. Constantly replacing players with replacement players only sustains suckitude disguised as mediocrity.

 

Show us some plan, any plan, to keep a core. Lock up Casas and Bello longterm, so Sam Kennedy can finally be truthful about something by signing someone for big money. If you pay them soon, it won't have to be so big that you keep misreading the realities of the market... like you did with Mookie year-after-year until he was gone.

 

 

exactly

[mvp 78]

I said this last year. It isn't only the Red Sox. FSG sought out Arab investors for Liverpool last year. It is only a guess, but I think the hike in interest rates and other economic factors have adversely affected FSGs balance sheet.

 

For the Sox, it has less to do with interest rates and more to do with the state of television. They used to make a ton of money off of NESN and got a lot of views, but that has fallen off even when the team has been successful.

[mvp 78]

At Winter Weekend, Tom Werner and others reminisced how Fenway rocked when the Sox whupped the Yankees in the 2021 Wild Card game. It was a reminder of how intense the fanbase can get again -- and it all it takes is a winner.

 

That '21 postseason isn't even three years old now, and here's who's left on Boston's roster -- position players: Devers; pitching staff: Pivetta, Whitlock, Houck.

 

Dalbec is still around, but not exactly a lock to break camp. In three rounds in '21, he hit .000 (oh-for-12). Duran and Wong saw some playing time in that regular season. That's it.

 

The point is, Tom, that it's a lot easier for a fanbase to root for a club with continuity, for familiarity, for regulars. Constantly replacing players with replacement players only sustains suckitude disguised as mediocrity.

 

Show us some plan, any plan, to keep a core. Lock up Casas and Bello longterm, so Sam Kennedy can finally be truthful about something by signing someone for big money. If you pay them soon, it won't have to be so big that you keep misreading the realities of the market... like you did with Mookie year-after-year until he was gone.

 

Tom has zero power in this ownership group. They only put him in front of a microphone because Henry won't show up.

[moonslav59]

For the Sox, it has less to do with interest rates and more to do with the state of television. They used to make a ton of money off of NESN and got a lot of views, but that has fallen off even when the team has been successful.

 

I read they made $97M in 2022, off NESN. I'm not sure about 2023, or how much money has been lost over the years.

 

$97M is pretty damn good, when compared to most teams, and it's just one area of money-making JH & Co. have access to.

 

[mvp 78]

I read they made $97M in 2022, off NESN. I'm not sure about 2023, or how much money has been lost over the years.

 

$97M is pretty damn good, when compared to most teams, and it's just one area of money-making JH & Co. have access to.

 

 

Off NESN or off Red Sox broadcasts? That's 2 different things.

[moonslav59]

It's interesting to see the Astros go past the $20M over lux tax line with the Hader signing. Previously, they had only gone over the first tax line once- in 2020, and only by $3M.

 

There has been a lot of talk, down here, about them not being able to afford Tucker and or Bregman, as they have a long history of letting stars walk in free agency (Verlander, Cole, Correa, Springer and others.)

 

They must see they are still in a "window," but you have to wonder how long they plan on spending like this.

 

Verlander has a conditional player option for 2025 at $35M, if he pitches 140 innings and passes a physical. If they see him depart, and don't replace him, they will be back under, but how do they keep these guys?

 

FAs after 2024:

Bregman $30M ($20M lux tax)

Altuve $29.2M ($23.4M lux)'

Graveman $8M (no big loss)

 

Last arb years:

$12.1M Framber Valdez

$12M Tucker

$3.8M Urquidy

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's interesting to see the Astros go past the $20M over lux tax line with the Hader signing. Previously, they had only gone over the first tax line once- in 2020, and only by $3M.

 

There has been a lot of talk, down here, about them not being able to afford Tucker and or Bregman, as they have a long history of letting stars walk in free agency (Verlander, Cole, Correa, Springer and others.)

 

They must see they are still in a "window," but you have to wonder how long they plan on spending like this.

 

Verlander has a conditional player option for 2025 at $35M, if he pitches 140 innings and passes a physical. If they see him depart, and don't replace him, they will be back under, but how do they keep these guys?

 

FAs after 2024:

Bregman $30M ($20M lux tax)

Altuve $29.2M ($23.4M lux)'

Graveman $8M (no big loss)

 

Last arb years:

$12.1M Framber Valdez

$12M Tucker

$3.8M Urquidy

 

 

 

The Astros must think that since they're still good, it's ok to spend on good pitching.

[moonslav59]

Off NESN or off Red Sox broadcasts? That's 2 different things.

 

The article I read said the "revenues" in $97M in 2022.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/01/each-teams-local-broadcasting-arrangement.html

 

Not counting...

 

"starting in 2022 every MLB team will receive a guaranteed $60.1 million via national TV deals..."

[Old Red]

How did all you nonbelievers feel when Sam Kennedy called you all out, and called you liars if you didn’t believe that Red Sox ownership was committed to winning?🙈🤭👍👎

[mvp 78]

It's interesting to see the Astros go past the $20M over lux tax line with the Hader signing. Previously, they had only gone over the first tax line once- in 2020, and only by $3M.

 

There has been a lot of talk, down here, about them not being able to afford Tucker and or Bregman, as they have a long history of letting stars walk in free agency (Verlander, Cole, Correa, Springer and others.)

 

They must see they are still in a "window," but you have to wonder how long they plan on spending like this.

 

Verlander has a conditional player option for 2025 at $35M, if he pitches 140 innings and passes a physical. If they see him depart, and don't replace him, they will be back under, but how do they keep these guys?

 

FAs after 2024:

Bregman $30M ($20M lux tax)

Altuve $29.2M ($23.4M lux)'

Graveman $8M (no big loss)

 

Last arb years:

$12.1M Framber Valdez

$12M Tucker

$3.8M Urquidy

 

 

 

They'll need to decide between Altuve and Bregman. The big problem is that their top prospects don't play either position. I have no idea what their plan is. Maybe they are just going to spend for the next few years and try to win as much as possible with the current group and take the payroll hits and other implications?

[moonslav59]

They'll need to decide between Altuve and Bregman. The big problem is that their top prospects don't play either position. I have no idea what their plan is. Maybe they are just going to spend for the next few years and try to win as much as possible with the current group and take the payroll hits and other implications?

 

I would not be surprised, if they try to get under the $20M line, this season by trading the guy they know they will not re-sign (Tucker, Breg or Altuve) or maybe even Verlander.

 

Trading Urquidy puts them under the 2nd line, too.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

How did all you nonbelievers feel when Sam Kennedy called you all out, and called you liars if you didn’t believe that Red Sox ownership was committed to winning?

 

Leave Sam alone. The Red Sox asked him to stand in their dugout this year so batters can hang their pine-tar helmets on his Pinocchio nose.

[mvp 78]

I would not be surprised, if they try to get under the $20M line, this season by trading the guy they know they will not re-sign (Tucker, Breg or Altuve) or maybe even Verlander.

 

Trading Urquidy puts them under the 2nd line, too.

 

Maybe it depends where they are at the deadline?

[mvp 78]

Leave Sam alone. The Red Sox asked him to stand in their dugout this year so batters can hang their pine-tar helmets on his Pinocchio nose.

 

They asked him to be forward facing last year since Henry wasn't going to be around and I don't remember hearing from Kennedy at all in 2023 except before and after the season.

[Old Red]

They asked him to be forward facing last year since Henry wasn't going to be around and I don't remember hearing from Kennedy at all in 2023 except before and after the season.

 

What did Sam do when Larry was around? Maybe he should go back to doing that.

[mvp 78]

What did Sam do when Larry was around? Maybe he should go back to doing that.

 

He was the sales and marketing guy underneath Larry going back to San Diego.

[moonslav59]

Maybe it depends where they are at the deadline?

 

There have been rumors of an Urquidy trade for months, down here. They do have SP'er depth, so I could see them trading him for a prospect.

 

Urquidy for Jordan and or Paulino?

[mvp 78]

There have been rumors of an Urquidy trade for months, down here. They do have SP'er depth, so I could see them trading him for a prospect.

 

Urquidy for Jordan and or Paulino?

 

He doesn't generate a lot of whiffs or have good velo (Crag's preference). Why dump a prospect for Urquidy's profile?

[moonslav59]

He doesn't generate a lot of whiffs or have good velo (Crag's preference). Why dump a prospect for Urquidy's profile?

 

He may not fit the Brez profile, but he's better than many we have, right now, and if he can push Houck to the pen, he's worth it.

[mvp 78]

He may not fit the Brez profile, but he's better than many we have, right now, and if he can push Houck to the pen, he's worth it.

 

I'm not convinced he's an upgrade over Houck anymore. Was he injured last year?

[moonslav59]

I'm not convinced he's an upgrade over Houck anymore. Was he injured last year?

 

^Yes, he was hurt and apparently pitched while injured, for a while.

 

I know he's not a high K man, and you and Brez value that more than I do, but from 2021-2022, he posted these numbers:

 

21-11 3.81 (1.098 WHIP) 4.42 FIP

48 GS and 271 IP

105 ERA+

3.9 K:BB

 

He's pretty close to Houck, and having Houck in the pen is a big plus.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He doesn't generate a lot of whiffs or have good velo (Crag's preference). Why dump a prospect for Urquidy's profile?

 

Wonder if Brez covets those assets because he was more a pitch-to-contact, offspeed kinda pitcher.

 

Red Sox people: always want what we can't have.

 

Why, it was just this weekend Craig was talking about the Red Sox reclaiming their "rightful place atop the division." How entitled...

[mvp 78]

^Yes, he was hurt and apparently pitched while injured, for a while.

 

I know he's not a high K man, and you and Brez value that more than I do, but from 2021-2022, he posted these numbers:

 

21-11 3.81 (1.098 WHIP) 4.42 FIP

48 GS and 271 IP

105 ERA+

3.9 K:BB

 

He's pretty close to Houck, and having Houck in the pen is a big plus.

 

Urquidy is decent and I liked having him on my fantasy team back in 21/22. It's not that I'm all for whiffs (not simply k rate mind you) and velo, but that it's what Crag prefers. Why talk about pitchers that have profiles that don't fit what the FO like?

[mvp 78]

Wonder if Brez covets those assets because he was more a pitch-to-contact, offspeed kinda pitcher.

 

Red Sox people: always want what we can't have.

 

Why, it was just this weekend Craig was talking about the Red Sox reclaiming their "rightful place atop the division." How entitled...

 

No idea as I'm not a therapist. I think he probably believes a batter not being able to put the ball in play is the best option for a pitcher? The second best option would be for a batter to weakly put the ball in play, but if the defense sucks it may not help much.

[notin]

He doesn't generate a lot of whiffs or have good velo (Crag's preference). Why dump a prospect for Urquidy's profile?

 

It’s not like he’s suggesting Mayer, Teel, or Anthony. Or even Wikelman.

 

My question is - is Jordan enough?

[mvp 78]

It’s not like he’s suggesting Mayer, Teel, or Anthony. Or even Wikelman.

 

My question is - is Jordan enough?

 

I think the trade is fair for Boston. I'm just saying that I don't know if he's an upgrade over Houck especially when looking at last year's numbers and realizing the Sox have to give up a prospect to acquire him.

[moonslav59]

Wonder if Brez covets those assets because he was more a pitch-to-contact, offspeed kinda pitcher.

 

Red Sox people: always want what we can't have.

 

Why, it was just this weekend Craig was talking about the Red Sox reclaiming their "rightful place atop the division." How entitled...

 

Not every pitcher he has acquired, this winter are high K guys.