Red Sox ownership

[Old Red]

Then why are people asking me about it? And why other trans are spending? It’s like they think I’m actually involved in these decisions…

 

I think Bell as much as anyone is well aware what is going on.

[Duran Is The Man]

And while we as fans do not like this, is it or is it not a sound and time-honored business practice?

 

not if it ultimately destroys the brand because that is what he's doing.

[notin]

And how do you explain the massive spending by the Mets/Dodgers/Yankees/Padres/Phillies/Rangers?

 

Seriously?

 

Why do I need to? Henry isn’t running those teams (despite the wishes of many).

 

I mean, I basically said “businesses cut costs” and your reply was “but what about businesses that don’t?” Hey, maybe they make less money. Maybe they aren’t trying to maximize profits. Maybe those teams are not prioritizing budget over winning…

[Duran Is The Man]

I think his goal is clearly financial. Winning is secondary.

 

On the bright side, I don’t think it is completely off his SMART goals list…

 

so...a bunch of EXTREMELY rich people want to make even MORE money at the expense of winning. thanks for proving that JH is a greedy POS.

[notin]

not if it ultimately destroys the brand because that is what he's doing.

 

I have my doubts it goes that far. This brand has an 86 year title drought with being destroyed…

[notin]

so...a bunch of EXTREMELY rich people want to make even MORE money at the expense of winning. thanks for proving that JH is a greedy POS.

 

I never advised him to be one.

 

At this point, I’m just hoping his Moneyball tactics pan out. The downside is never having big star talent. But the bright side is there are lots of exploitable strategies in baseball.

 

The Sox might be willing to spend more if MLB marketed its stars more heavily, like other sports have always done. Then players like Betts become an asset (financially, he’s already a baseball asset) and not a great expenditure. There would be greater incentive to keep those players around…

[Duran Is The Man]

I have my doubts it goes that far. This brand has an 86 year title drought with being destroyed…

 

maybe so. loyal, lifelong Sox fans will continue to support the team. however, new fans want to root for and be associated with winning teams, teams with "stars" like Tatis, Betts, Ohtani, Acuna, etc. -not last place losers with a bunch of nobodies, has-beens and "reclamation projects" like the Sox. it seems every jersey or hat i see these days have a Dodgers, Rangers or Astros logo.

[Old Red]

I have my doubts it goes that far. This brand has an 86 year title drought with being destroyed…

 

You actually think the brand that went on for 86 years before a title was won is the same as today? The comparisons aren’t even close to being the same? Wow! Despite 4 titles being won under JH tenure he is not very popular, and a marked man. I don’t ever recall it being like that before in my lifetime. 10+ candidates wouldn’t even interview for Bloom’s open job.

Edited January 13, 2024 by Old Red

[notin]

You actually think the brand that went on for 86 years before a title was won is the same as today? The comparisons aren’t even close to being the same? Wow!

 

Disagree. I’m not going to soak for the 1919-1960 brand, for obvious reasons. But do you really think it’s changed all that much over the past 30 years? Or 40 years? Or are you solely focusing on the last 20 years and crediting Henry with destroying a brand without any credit for embellishing it?

[Old Red]

Disagree. I’m not going to soak for the 1919-1960 brand, for obvious reasons. But do you really think it’s changed all that much over the past 30 years? Or 40 years? Or are you solely focusing on the last 20 years and crediting Henry with destroying a brand without any credit for embellishing it?

 

I gave him credit for 4 WS championships, but all that good it will it seems has all been used up, and that’s pretty hard to do.

[notin]

maybe so. loyal, lifelong Sox fans will continue to support the team. however, new fans want to root for and be associated with winning teams, teams with "stars" like Tatis, Betts, Ohtani, Acuna, etc. -not last place losers with a bunch of nobodies, has-beens and "reclamation projects" like the Sox. it seems every jersey or hat i see these days have a Dodgers, Rangers or Astros logo.

 

 

Not sure where you live, but that goes back to MLB not marketing their stars, which is some sort of weird and stupid tradition in this sport. How come almost no MLB stars do national commercials? Or make appearances on TV shows? I can easily name a dozen football players and basketball players who have hosted Saturday Night Live, but not a single baseball player. I can name as many football and basketball players who went on to become successful actors. Again, not a single MLB player.

 

Why, if this sport is as popular as it is, does it work so hard to keep itself out of mainstream? Even their pathetic broadcasting packages and archaic blackout rules tell us how badly MLB wants to keep its product and stars as some sort of National Secret…

Edited January 13, 2024 by notin

[notin]

I gave him credit for 4 WS championships, but all that good it will it seems has all been used up, and that’s pretty hard to do.

 

Ok so how is the brand different from the pre-Henry century?

[Bellhorn04]

Ok so how is the brand different from the pre-Henry century?

 

Everything is different now because of the vast amounts of money in the game and free agency.

 

The Red Sox brand was generally in superb shape for the years 2003-2018.

 

By trading Betts and cutting payroll, Henry has seemed to be on a mission to devaluate the brand.

[Hitch]

The Tampa Bay Rays have existed for 26 years. They have won two A.L. pennants and zero World Series in those years. They have made the playoffs for five straight years . ( It should be noted that it is easier to make the playoffs than it used to be. ) While their front office has received a lot of praise, they have a manager ( Kevin Cash) who is arguably the best in the game. They are widely known as a cheap outfit. They are not an attraction anywhere. They could not even draw flies at a Florida strawberry festival. In short, they are not an organization that the Boston Red Sox should be trying to emulate.

 

Yes, we certainty don't want to emulate 5 years in a row in the play offs. Would ruin the excitement of early draft picks.

[Hitch]

Henry is a gazillionaire with a very wealthy franchise, so spending should not then or ever be a problem. i think the answer is his ego. he wants to show how smart he is by winning on the cheap. and all it's doing is making him look like an idiotic, greedy cheapskate.

 

I see quotes that Henry is a billionaire all the time, but is he? Genuine question. I know he's part of ownership groups who's assets are worth billions, but that is a very different thing. Anyone know is own personal wealth?

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, we certainty don't want to emulate 5 years in a row in the play offs. Would ruin the excitement of early draft picks.

 

The 5 years in a row in the playoffs on their budget is impressive for sure. I don't think that in itself makes them a model for the Red Sox to emulate.

 

Like it or not the Yankees and the Dodgers are the franchises the Red Sox are competing with.

[Bellhorn04]

I see quotes that Henry is a billionaire all the time, but is he? Genuine question. I know he's part of ownership groups who's assets are worth billions, but that is a very different thing. Anyone know is own personal wealth?

 

It's estimated by Wikipedia at $4 billion US.

[Hitch]

Every business in the world tries to be more successful for less money. Not sure why this notion is so foreign to some folks…

 

I think Steve Cohen coming in and spending like a drunken sailor has skewed people's minds a little. And even he is pulling back now.

[Hitch]

The 5 years in a row in the playoffs on their budget is impressive for sure. I don't think that in itself makes them a model for the Red Sox to emulate.

 

Like it or not the Yankees and the Dodgers are the franchises the Red Sox are competing with.

 

The Red Sox should be learning from the Ray, the Dodgers and the Braves. Any team that's doing things better than you is to be learned from.

[Hitch]

It's estimated by Wikipedia at $4 billion US.

 

I'm pretty sure that's estimating his net worth (so all assets he owns). Very difficult to get personal wealth details. But they're very usually gargantuanly lower.

[Old Red]

Everything is different now because of the vast amounts of money in the game and free agency.

 

The Red Sox brand was generally in superb shape for the years 2003-2018.

 

By trading Betts and cutting payroll, Henry has seemed to be on a mission to devaluate the brand.

 

That’s what I keep saying when some keep bringing up JH spending patterns in the past. 2018 is not that long ago, but things have changed dramatically with that vast amount of money now being spent, and the amount of teams that is now willing to spend it. It’s not just the Red Sox, and Yankees bidding against each other anymore. JH it seems has been now been left behind, and the Red Sox have gone down with him. Not a good look to me, and i don’t think the Red Sox are looked at throughout MLB as they used to be.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Steve Cohen coming in and spending like a drunken sailor has skewed people's minds a little. And even he is pulling back now.

 

The Dodgers and Yankees are also spending like drunken sailors.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm pretty sure that's estimating his net worth (so all assets he owns). Very difficult to get personal wealth details. But they're very usually gargantuanly lower.

 

Net worth represents an estimate of what personal wealth would be if all those assets were liquidated into personal cash at their current market value.

[Hitch]

The Dodgers and Yankees are also spending like drunken sailors.

 

That's worked out great for them so far.

 

Business people will try to make things work for as cheap as possible. This is the way the capitalistic part of the world works. Why what Notin is saying is a surprise to anyone is beyond me.

[Hitch]

Net worth represents an estimate of what personal wealth would be if all those assets were liquidated into personal cash at their current market value.

 

I know, which backs up my point - all these people screaming that he needs to dip into his pocket to spend money because he has billions is a tiringly stupid point.

[Bellhorn04]

That's worked out great for them so far.

 

You're suggesting the Dodgers aren't doing well?

[Bellhorn04]

That's worked out great for them so far.

 

Business people will try to make things work for as cheap as possible. This is the way the capitalistic part of the world works. Why what Notin is saying is a surprise to anyone is beyond me.

 

There's an obvious flip side to this, though - if your cheapness makes the product worse and people stop buying, all of a sudden your cheapness has cost you a pile of money rather than saving you money. I'm surprised anyone can overlook this side of it.

[Hugh2]

There's an obvious flip side to this, though - if your cheapness makes the product worse and people stop buying, all of a sudden your cheapness has cost you a pile of money rather than saving you money. I'm surprised anyone can overlook this side of it.

 

I haven’t overlooked this side of it. Which is why I’ve stated recently that the Sox abysmal results may be at the very least just as much a function of poor execution than just simply apathy towards building a winning team

[Hitch]

You're suggesting the Dodgers aren't doing well?

 

No, I'm saying that splurging money is no guarantee of success. Apart from the useless 2020 win, they haven't won it all in a while and consider themselves failures for not doing so. Their words, not mine.

 

Regardless, let's not get away from the point. Business people try to gain as much as they can from as little as possible. Such is the world. Nothing Henry and co are doing this year is different to what they've done in years past. Success while being as economical as possible. It's like people are just noticing.

 

I guess this is why the 'full throttle thing' just will not die, even though people should have seen it for the bluster it was the moment it left his lips.

[Hitch]

There's an obvious flip side to this, though - if your cheapness makes the product worse and people stop buying, all of a sudden your cheapness has cost you a pile of money rather than saving you money. I'm surprised anyone can overlook this side of it.

 

This is a fair point. But they obviously believe that they can do this in a more economical way and are going to try knocking on that door until they can find the person with the right key (in this case they're hoping it's Breslow).

 

We'll have to see if they are right. If they are, they'll be making money hand over fist while having a much lower payroll than people would like.