Craig Breslow hired as Head Of Baseball Operations

[moonslav59]

Maybe other teams aren't as up on the prospects that we apparently have developed over the past few years. Is it possible that they collectively just aren't as good as advertised?

 

That is a possibility.

 

Teams also seem to only want ML ready prospects, so guys like Bleis are not coveted all that much.

 

Mayer, Anthony and Teel are close enough. I’m pretty sure one GM really likes one of them enough to pull the trigger.

 

We have some nice 2nd tier prospects to package up that are near ML ready, such as Rafaela, Yorke, Abreu, Valdez plus some young MLB pitchers we could add to get a big prize.

 

Let’s see if Breslow meant what he said.

[Old Red]

They have ramped up the lingo.

The sham continues, until we see concrete evidence on the contrary.

The Devers extension got our hopes up, but JH pretty much had to do that to keep the sham going.

Let’s see if he thinks that was enough to keep the sham rolling.

I don’t think Sox fans are that dumb, but we keep buying tickets and cable sports packages.

JH can make a boatload of money without rings.

He knows that.

He has to want a winning team.

 

To those who want him to sell, he will sell to the highest bidder, who may not be someone who will spend more on the budget that he has. Be careful what you wish for.

 

 

 

The Dever’s extension as you said had to be done, so I don’t think that is any example going forward that JH will go back to spending.

You keep on saying that it doesn’t mean if JH sells the team that the buyer will spend more on the team, and nobody does, but I’m willing to take that chance that he does. It would be pretty foolish to spend all that money to buy the team in the first place, and not put money back into the team, so not just foolish, but down right stupid. Not wishing JH selling the team to me would be careful what you wish for.

[moonslav59]

The Dever’s extension as you said had to be done, so I don’t think that is any example going forward that JH will go back to spending.

You keep on saying that it doesn’t mean if JH sells the team that the buyer will spend more on the team, and nobody does, but I’m willing to take that chance that he does. It would be pretty foolish to spend all that money to buy the team in the first place, and not put money back into the team, so not just foolish, but down right stupid. Not wishing JH selling the team to me would be careful what you wish for.

 

There are owners who spent a lot to buy the team but don't spend heavily on the budget.

 

It's not a given the next guy will spend more than JH, or enough or "more" to make a difference. An owner can make a boatload of money by just getting Sox fans to think we have a chance. JH proved that.

 

"Take a chance" does not sound all that good to me.

 

Yes, sticking with JH is certainly "taking a chance," too. I get that.

 

What JH does with the budget, this year should give us a better understanding of which one seems like the bigger risk.

[Randy Red Sox]

There are owners who spent a lot to buy the team but don't spend heavily on the budget.

 

It's not a given the next guy will spend more than JH, or enough or "more" to make a difference. An owner can make a boatload of money by just getting Sox fans to think we have a chance. JH proved that.

 

"Take a chance" does not sound all that good to me.

 

Yes, sticking with JH is certainly "taking a chance," too. I get that.

 

What JH does with the budget, this year should give us a better understanding of which one seems like the bigger risk.

 

that is exactly what many said last offseason

[moonslav59]

that is exactly what many said last offseason

 

I know. That's why I'm calling it a sham and sticking to that belief, if and until he changes my mind.

 

I will add that the Devers extension was a massive payout. It's almost 50% more than the Price deal. That was on top of $240M for Story and Yoshi. $540M spend from March 2022 to the start of 2024 on just 3 guys. That could be viewed as a sign that something is changing. It's even more than he spent extending Sale, Bogey and Nate around 2018. When you look at what was spent after that last clump of signing from Dec '18 to April '19 (Nate, Sale & Bogey), basically from April 2019 to March 2022 was about 3 years of nothingness.

 

The big question is, about whether the $540M in 2 years: is that just the start of spending or the peak of the spike?

 

I'm choosing to believe the sham will continue. We will probably sign Stroman, Lugo and Merrifield and try to con the fanbase, again.

 

If we do way more, I'll start being a believer, again, but I need to see the effort, first.

[Randy Red Sox]

I know. That's why I'm calling it a sham and sticking to that belief, if and until he changes my mind.

 

I will add that the Devers extension was a massive payout. It's almost 50% more than the Price deal. That was on top of $240M for Story and Yoshi. $540M spend from March 2022 to the start of 2024 on just 3 guys. That could be viewed as a sign that something is changing. It's even more than he spent extending Sale, Bogey and Nate around 2018. When you look at what was spent after that last clump of signing from Dec '18 to April '19 (Nate, Sale & Bogey), basically from April 2019 to March 2022 was about 3 years of nothingness.

 

The big question is, about whether the $540M in 2 years: is that just the start of spending or the peak of the spike?

 

I'm choosing to believe the sham will continue. We will probably sign Stroman, Lugo and Merrifield and try to con the fanbase, again.

 

If we do way more, I'll start being a believer, again, but I need to see the effort, first.

 

Make NO MISTAKE about it. The Story signing along with the Devers signing were no more than to place RSN after letting Xander walk for nothing. Had Devers been let go too there WOULD have been a revolt.

[Old Red]

Make NO MISTAKE about it. The Story signing along with the Devers signing were no more than to place RSN after letting Xander walk for nothing. Had Devers been let go too there WOULD have been a revolt.

 

Agree 100%, and that neither the Story Land, or Raffy signings have anything to do, or a sign of which way JH will go when it comes to opening his checkbook. It was even said at the time that the late signing of Story was to appease the fans. Raffy was also the last man standing out of the Mookie, and Bogey gang.

[moonslav59]

Make NO MISTAKE about it. The Story signing along with the Devers signing were no more than to place RSN after letting Xander walk for nothing. Had Devers been let go too there WOULD have been a revolt.

 

Well, that's what we are talking about: spending just enough to quell a revolt.

 

The Devers extension kicks in in '24, but nobdy is thinking, "We just signed Devers." Keeping Devers just kept us even with last place. Fans expect something very big this winter, and there is talk of "FULL THROTTLE," so it's put up or shut up time for JH & Co.

 

Again, I'm expecting the sham to continue, but I do still have hopes it might not.

[notin]

Make NO MISTAKE about it. The Story signing along with the Devers signing were no more than to place RSN after letting Xander walk for nothing. Had Devers been let go too there WOULD have been a revolt.

 

Story was signed before Bogaerts left.

 

I do believe he was signed to to replace Bogaerts, but not everyone thinks that is a step down at shortstop…

[moonslav59]

Agree 100%, and that neither the Story Land, or Raffy signings have anything to do, or a sign of which way JH will go when it comes to opening his checkbook. It was even said at the time that the late signing of Story was to appease the fans. Raffy was also the last man standing out of the Mookie, and Bogey gang.

 

I was one of the few who said, at the time, the Story signing was a late, knee-jerk reaction to a swelling storm of fan discontent.

 

The Devers extension had to be done, after we lost Betts and were soon to lose Bogey, but that does not mean both signings were insignificant. We had gone from April 2019 to March 2022 with no signings over $10M a year. That's nearly 3 years! From March '22 to the Devers extension, JH laid out about $540M (about $72M/ yr.) That is not chump change.

 

Again, I'm not viewing that as there being more to spend. I'm expecting the sham to continue, but there is still a chance that spending was just the start of serious plan to get back near the top. Our top 3 farm studs look to be ready by 2025, so maybe he is planning a slow build to the window beginning in '25, when all of Story, Yoshi, Devers and whoever he adds this year and next will be here and still in or near their primes.

 

I'll believe it when I see it, but it could be the plan.

 

 

[Duran Is The Man]

Agree 100%, and that neither the Story Land, or Raffy signings have anything to do, or a sign of which way JH will go when it comes to opening his checkbook. It was even said at the time that the late signing of Story was to appease the fans. Raffy was also the last man standing out of the Mookie, and Bogey gang.

 

I hated the Story signing from Day 1. I wanted Simien.

[Bellhorn04]

Story was signed before Bogaerts left.

 

I do believe he was signed to to replace Bogaerts, but not everyone thinks that is a step down at shortstop…

 

It's been a step down so far. Story is a better fielder than Bogaerts, but he has missed a ton of games and his offensive numbers have been lousy.

[Bellhorn04]

I was one of the few who said, at the time, the Story signing was a late, knee-jerk reaction to a swelling storm of fan discontent.

 

It's possible, but it was a pretty strange choice of moves to please the fans with.

[notin]

It's been a step down so far. Story is a better fielder than Bogaerts, but he has missed a ton of games and his offensive numbers have been lousy.

 

True although none of that was known at the time.

 

Bogaerts’ edge from 2019-2021 was 11.8 fWAR to 11.1 fWAR.

 

I didn’t want any of those shortstops once Lindor extended, especially not Story, whom I referred to as an Overpaid Paul DeJeong. But he is a better player than I realized. He just needs to stay on the field…

[moonslav59]

It's been a step down so far. Story is a better fielder than Bogaerts, but he has missed a ton of games and his offensive numbers have been lousy.

 

Even though Bogey's offensive production has dipped, Story, when playing, has done squat on O, so far.

 

We may need him and Yoshi to shine in '24 to have any chance, even if we add a couple good SP'ers.

[moonslav59]

It's possible, but it was a pretty strange choice of moves to please the fans with.

 

What was left, when we signed Story in March?

 

The Yoshi signing does not fit the bill on the "fan pleasing" meter, but I do think it made it look like they cared more about 2023 than 2021 and 2022.

 

The casual fan just said, "Meh."

[Bellhorn04]

What was left, when we signed Story in March?

 

Not a whole lot. It was a head-scratcher at the time. Nobody could really make sense of it except as the Bogaerts replacement thing, which most people didn't like.

 

I guess I'd prefer to think they're not stupid enough to be provoked by fan unrest into a bad $140 million signing.

[moonslav59]

Not a whole lot. It was a head-scratcher at the time. Nobody could really make sense of it except as the Bogaerts replacement thing, which most people didn't like.

 

I guess I'd prefer to think they're not stupid enough to be provoked by fan unrest into a bad $140 million signing.

 

There was probably more than one reason.

 

Certainly, a hedge against possibly losing Bogey had to be part of it.

 

They promised to get competitive, so I do think fan unrest and the chance of dropping attendance and NESN viewership was likely a reason, too.

 

Why I think it was "knee jerk" was I feel other signings, that winter were better deals and at positions of higher need.

 

It's just my opinion.

 

To me, despite the Story and Yoshi signings and the Devers extension, the fans are more restless, this winter than the last three.

 

Let's see if they care enough to be serious about placating the base.

 

If they go bold and fail, at least the fans will feel like they tried. (They'll still be pissed. They'll call for Breslow's head, but at least the feeling of caring might be restored.)

[Old Red]

There was probably more than one reason.

 

Certainly, a hedge against possibly losing Bogey had to be part of it.

 

They promised to get competitive, so I do think fan unrest and the chance of dropping attendance and NESN viewership was likely a reason, too.

 

Why I think it was "knee jerk" was I feel other signings, that winter were better deals and at positions of higher need.

 

It's just my opinion.

 

To me, despite the Story and Yoshi signings and the Devers extension, the fans are more restless, this winter than the last three.

 

Let's see if they care enough to be serious about placating the base.

 

If they go bold and fail, at least the fans will feel like they tried. (They'll still be pissed. They'll call for Breslow's head, but at least the feeling of caring might be restored.)

 

Why wouldn’t the fans be more restless this winter than the last three? Do you think it has something to do with the last two seasons not only being losing seasons, but last in the Div finishes?🙈

[Old Red]

Not a whole lot. It was a head-scratcher at the time. Nobody could really make sense of it except as the Bogaerts replacement thing, which most people didn't like.

 

I guess I'd prefer to think they're not stupid enough to be provoked by fan unrest into a bad $140 million signing.

I don’t think Red Sox saw it as a bad $140M signing, and cheaper than it would be to resign Bogey. The 1 yr extension offer to Bogey pretty much said that.

[Duran Is The Man]

What was left, when we signed Story in March?

 

The Yoshi signing does not fit the bill on the "fan pleasing" meter, but I do think it made it look like they cared more about 2023 than 2021 and 2022.

 

The casual fan just said, "Meh."

 

 

There wasn’t anything left because Mr. Dithers f***ed around. Like I said, I wanted Simien.

[Duran Is The Man]

There was probably more than one reason.

 

Certainly, a hedge against possibly losing Bogey had to be part of it.

 

They promised to get competitive, so I do think fan unrest and the chance of dropping attendance and NESN viewership was likely a reason, too.

 

Why I think it was "knee jerk" was I feel other signings, that winter were better deals and at positions of higher need.

 

It's just my opinion.

 

To me, despite the Story and Yoshi signings and the Devers extension, the fans are more restless, this winter than the last three.

 

Let's see if they care enough to be serious about placating the base.

 

If they go bold and fail, at least the fans will feel like they tried. (They'll still be pissed. They'll call for Breslow's head, but at least the feeling of caring might be restored.)

 

I think you summed it up perfectly.

[cp176]

There was probably more than one reason.

 

Certainly, a hedge against possibly losing Bogey had to be part of it.

 

They promised to get competitive, so I do think fan unrest and the chance of dropping attendance and NESN viewership was likely a reason, too.

 

Why I think it was "knee jerk" was I feel other signings, that winter were better deals and at positions of higher need.

 

It's just my opinion.

 

To me, despite the Story and Yoshi signings and the Devers extension, the fans are more restless, this winter than the last three.

 

Let's see if they care enough to be serious about placating the base.

 

If they go bold and fail, at least the fans will feel like they tried. (They'll still be pissed. They'll call for Breslow's head, but at least the feeling of caring might be restored.)

 

hmm - I think that the Story signing looked pretty good at the time. It just hasn't worked out. As for Yoshi, that just doesn't look like a great signing. Not horrible by any measure but not great. As for Devers - Oh what the hell, we all love Devers. I just wish that he was a better fielder.

[moonslav59]

Why wouldn’t the fans be more restless this winter than the last three? Do you think it has something to do with the last two seasons not only being losing seasons, but last in the Div finishes?🙈

 

Yes, two last place finishes plus the lies compounding upon each other.

 

Hey, you have access to the bigger corner than I do, what do you hear?

 

Sound louder? More in unison? More demanding?

[moonslav59]

hmm - I think that the Story signing looked pretty good at the time. It just hasn't worked out. As for Yoshi, that just doesn't look like a great signing. Not horrible by any measure but not great. As for Devers - Oh what the hell, we all love Devers. I just wish that he was a better fielder.

 

I liked the Story signing, too. It kept me thinking they were making strides towards being relevant, again, at some point... maybe not in '22 but at least likely in '23. I did not expect us to go over the tax line in '22, but felt we'd do so in '23. They couldn't even do that right.

 

I wanted Devers forevers, but he's not an addition. We finished last for 2 years, so extending Devers not improve the team. It just kept it from getting worse.

[Dipre]

Hated the Story signing when it was made. He could transform into prime Nomar with better defense from here on out, and I'll still hate it. Story was just a suspect player in my book, and they had better options that offseason.

[moonslav59]

Hated the Story signing when it was made. He could transform into prime Nomar with better defense from here on out, and I'll still hate it. Story was just a suspect player in my book, and they had better options that offseason.

 

I liked other options, too, and not all of them worked out well.

 

I do think it was a legitimate stab at fan appeasement. Too little- too late, of course.

 

[sk7326]

Hated the Story signing when it was made. He could transform into prime Nomar with better defense from here on out, and I'll still hate it. Story was just a suspect player in my book, and they had better options that offseason.

 

Story was not my favorite choice but I had no problem with it, particularly with the idea of him transitioning to 2B - which was the theory before they lost Boegarts. Really with him it has been all about health. The path to him being a 3 win player (a reasonable breakeven estimate) is at least pretty straightforward.

 

1. Appear in games

2. Be an average hitter

 

I mean last year he managed to produce 0.8 bWAR despite being useless with the bat. And he is a central reason the spine of the defense has a chance to be above average next season which would be a vast improvement on whatever they did in 2023.

 

And I do think there was pathway to 90 wins with that team entering 2022. The problem came down to some pitching regression and the corner bats being terrible.

[Bellhorn04]

I liked other options, too, and not all of them worked out well.

 

I do think it was a legitimate stab at fan appeasement. Too little- too late, of course.

 

 

It was a lousy stab at fan appeasement if that's what it was.

[moonslav59]

Story was not my favorite choice but I had no problem with it, particularly with the idea of him transitioning to 2B - which was the theory before they lost Boegarts. Really with him it has been all about health. The path to him being a 3 win player (a reasonable breakeven estimate) is at least pretty straightforward.

 

1. Appear in games

2. Be an average hitter

 

I mean last year he managed to produce 0.8 bWAR despite being useless with the bat. And he is a central reason the spine of the defense has a chance to be above average next season which would be a vast improvement on whatever they did in 2023.

 

And I do think there was pathway to 90 wins with that team entering 2022. The problem came down to some pitching regression and the corner bats being terrible.

 

The guy is a better defender than I imagined. He was not post prime when we signed him. We knew about the park affects on his numbers, but his away numbers were nearly identical to Bogey's.

 

I liked the signing, but the injuries and rehabs killed us.