2023 MLB postseason thread

[notin]

Good management , stewardship and supervision is vital to the success of any business. Poor management can do much harm. It makes no sense to think that the results would be no different regardless of who is in charge.

 

Point?

 

It also makes no sense to assume any change will be beneficial…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The kicker, to me, was the report that DD nearly traded Betts and Price to LAD in the summer of 2019. Man, how that would have changed the whole narrative!!!

 

For two more months of stretch-run Betts, Dombro could have demanded what Bloom could not: a legitimate starting pitching prospect!

 

But don't know how much narrative it would change in Boston -- all LA's young pitchers get hurt every single year.

[Old Red]

Point?

 

It also makes no sense to assume any change will be beneficial…

 

It also makes no sense to assume it won’t. One on here has gone on, and on for two years now theorizing that, because Bloom failed under the conditions he was handed, and had to work with that no one else could have succeeded either especially DD. Like Bloom who was in over his head from day 1 was the standard to go by. Just because Bloom failed in no means mean that everyone else would too especially someone who’s experienced like DD.

[Old Red]

I can hear the chant now from Bloom’s biggest supporter. Chaim Bloom he’s my man if he can’t do it no one can!

[moonslav59]

When people say, player A K's too much, and I say, "I don't care of the guy K's 350 times, if he has an OPS of .800+," I'm thinking of Kyle Schwarber.

 

Man-O-Man this guy can really crush it!

[notin]

It also makes no sense to assume it won’t. One on here has gone on, and on for two years now theorizing that, because Bloom failed under the conditions he was handed, and had to work with that no one else could have succeeded either especially DD. Like Bloom who was in over his head from day 1 was the standard to go by. Just because Bloom failed in no means mean that everyone else would too especially someone who’s experienced like DD.

 

First of all, simply assuming changes will be beneficial is advocating for change for the sake of change.

 

So what do you think DD would have done? I’ve asked you many times he would have gotten out of the mess, and you have repeatedly ducked the question. Bear in mind, I’m not asking what he would have done; I’m just asking what you think he would have done. It’s not an unanswerable question. On the contrary, it’s an opinion. (Not a theory, if that helps you.). And please don’t say it adds no value to the discussion. It’s an internet forum. That’s all we do. Nothing you have said in any post has added value. Same goes for me. And everyone else. Except maybe mvp. Maybe.

 

And certainly anyone who could spy on Day One Bloom would not work out and has repeatedly defended Dombrowski must have some sense of how he would have handled the aftermath of 2019. If you’re familiar with his history, use it. What would he have done?

 

Bear in mind any counterarguments are just as unprovable and indefensible.

 

Except one - the simple question “then why was he fired?”

Edited October 18, 2023 by notin

[Old Red]

First of all, simply assuming changes will be beneficial is advocating for change for the sake of change.

 

So what do you think DD would have done? I’ve asked you many times he would have gotten out of the mess, and you have repeatedly ducked the question. Bear in mind, I’m not asking what he would have done; I’m just asking what you think he would have done. It’s not an unanswerable question. On the contrary, it’s an opinion. (Not a theory, if that helps you.). And please don’t say it adds no value to the discussion. It’s an internet forum. That’s all we do. Nothing you have said in any post has added value. Same goes for me. And everyone else. Except maybe mvp. Maybe.

 

And certainly anyone who could spy on Day One Bloom would not work out and has repeatedly defended Dombrowski must have some sense of how he would have handled the aftermath of 2019. If you’re familiar with his history, use it. What would he have done?

 

Bear in mind any counterarguments are just as unprovable and indefensible.

 

Except one - the simple question “then why was he fired?”

 

Do you think Bloom was fired just for the sake of change?

I have no idea what DD would have done, or even Theo for that matter. The word out there was that DD was in trade discussions with the Dodgers during the 2019 about Mookie, so I have no doubt DD would have traded Mookie after the 2019 season. What he would have gotten back in either scenario I don’t know. Yes I said on Day 1 that Bloom was a bad hire, but I also said on day 1 that i wouldn’t have signed Price for that big contract, and I said on day 1 that i wouldn’t have resigned Sale, so I haven’t always defended DD. The main point all along is that I don’t agree with the theory, and concept that just because Bloom was a failure in Boston that not everyone else would have been a failure too in the same situations including DD. Bloom is not even in the same league as DD who has had a long, and distinguished career, and Bloom has a short, and losing career as a front man. DD was fired, because he had a falling out with JH, which I take was over the philosophy of going forward after three years of first place finishes, and a WS title, so JH wasn’t careful what he wished for, and ended up with Gloom, and Doom Bloom. If you ask DD he doesn’t know why he was fired, but we all know why Bloom got fired.

[Bellhorn04]

Do you think Bloom was fired just for the sake of change?

I have no idea what DD would have done, or even Theo for that matter. The word out there was that DD was in trade discussions with the Dodgers during the 2019 about Mookie, so I have no doubt DD would have traded Mookie after the 2019 season. What he would have gotten back in either scenario I don’t know. Yes I said on Day 1 that Bloom was a bad hire, but I also said on day 1 that i wouldn’t have signed Price for that big contract, and I said on day 1 that i wouldn’t have resigned Sale, so I haven’t always defended DD. The main point all along is that I don’t agree with the theory, and concept that just because Bloom was a failure in Boston that not everyone else would have been a failure too in the same situations including DD. Bloom is not even in the same league as DD who has had a long, and distinguished career, and Bloom has a short, and losing career as a front man. DD was fired, because he had a falling out with JH, which I take was over the philosophy of going forward after three years of first place finishes, and a WS title, so JH wasn’t careful what he wished for, and ended up with Gloom, and Doom Bloom. If you ask DD he doesn’t know why he was fired, but we all know why Bloom got fired.

 

Honestly, it's not clear exactly why either DD or Bloom were fired, because as has been said a zillion times, they both seemed to be doing exactly what they were hired to do. Yes Bloom's W-L record the last 2 years had to do with it, but if Henry was so keen on winning why didn't he spend a bit more?

 

The only thing we know is that the same guy fired them both, the same guy who has canned 3 CBO's in a row after 4 years, the same guy who's mostly responsible for all these stories about people being leery of the Sox CBO job.

[jad]

Ha ha! Even on the post-season thread no one gives a crap about the playoffs!

[Bellhorn04]

Ha ha! Even on the post-season thread no one gives a crap about the playoffs!

 

There are a few posts about the games.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Unrealistic Postseason thread:

 

Phillies' eight regulars in eight playoff games: 34 extra-base hits, 31 singles.

[moonslav59]

Honestly, it's not clear exactly why either DD or Bloom were fired, because as has been said a zillion times, they both seemed to be doing exactly what they were hired to do. Yes Bloom's W-L record the last 2 years had to do with it, but if Henry was so keen on winning why didn't he spend a bit more?

 

The only thing we know is that the same guy fired them both, the same guy who has canned 3 CBO's in a row after 4 years, the same guy who's mostly responsible for all these stories about people being leery of the Sox CBO job.

 

...and the same guy who had a big hand in establishing a system that produced 4 rings in 2 decades.

 

This is not the first time JH has pulled in the purse strings while seemingly dictating a couple GMs to hoard prospects and trade stars away. It's been sort of cyclical.

 

I have no idea if the past history of cycling back up to spending large and allowing some top prospects to be traded away will happen anytime soon, or even ever happen again. I won't be surprised if the switch is flicked this winter or next, but who knows? We do know this has been one long down cycle, despite 2021. Once could argue there was a pretty long one a decade ago, despite the 2013 season.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Unrealistic Postseason thread:

 

Phillies' eight regulars in eight playoff games: 34 extra-base hits, 31 singles.

 

What a way and time to all heat up, at once!

[Bellhorn04]

...and the same guy who had a big hand in establishing a system that produced 4 rings in 2 decades.

 

This is not the first time JH has pulled in the purse strings while seemingly dictating a couple GMs to hoard prospects and trade stars away. It's been sort of cyclical.

 

The thing is, JH's cycling or whatever it is is starting to look more like dysfunction, what with all the last place finishes and fired CBOs...

[notin]

Honestly, it's not clear exactly why either DD or Bloom were fired, because as has been said a zillion times, they both seemed to be doing exactly what they were hired to do. Yes Bloom's W-L record the last 2 years had to do with it, but if Henry was so keen on winning why didn't he spend a bit more?

 

The only thing we know is that the same guy fired them both, the same guy who has canned 3 CBO's in a row after 4 years, the same guy who's mostly responsible for all these stories about people being leery of the Sox CBO job.

 

I think both were fired for not being Epstein.

 

Ever since the break up, Henry has been hiring CBOs based on their Epsteinability. He misses the winning record. He misses the burgeoning farm. He misses that little look Theo gave him over his shoulder. You know the one.

 

And so far - faint copies. Henry will never admit he misses Theo. That the break up did no one any good. But it’s obvious Henry misses him dearly and that his torch still burns. After all, he still wears the ring Theo gave him. In 2004.

 

And also the one from 2007…

[mvp 78]

I think both were fired for not being Epstein.

 

Ever since the break up, Henry has been hiring CBOs based on their Epsteinability. He misses the winning record. He misses the burgeoning farm. He misses that little look Theo gave him over his shoulder. You know the one.

 

And so far - faint copies. Henry will never admit he misses Theo. That the break up did no one any good. But it’s obvious Henry misses him dearly and that his torch still burns. After all, he still wears the ring Theo gave him. In 2004.

 

And also the one from 2007…

 

The end of 2011 broke Henry's brain. That collapse made him push a big red button that he should have waited on. They had no pitching that September. If they ran that team back in 2012 with Theo and Tito, they would have been much much better and may have not had to do the Dodgers trade.

[moonslav59]

The thing is, JH's cycling or whatever it is is starting to look more like dysfunction, what with all the last place finishes and fired CBOs...

 

It does look that way, and I don't disagree.

 

It could certainly be more about changing philosophies due to indecision, knee-jerk reactions to certain trends and or near total dysfunction, despite some brilliant people in the organization bringing about scattered success.

 

At times, I feel like JH prefers a steady balanced approach like we saw for most of Theo's time, here. Keep the farm strong, spend where and when needed and never let the budget get unmanageable. Under Ben, we saw a slide towards hoarding prospects, perhaps to try and balance what happened in Theo's last years, but he still was allowed to spend. The 3 last place finishes in 4 years seemed to make JH & Co. give up on "the balanced approach" and go all in. The no signing pitchers over 30 moratorium ended with the biggest Sox FA signing in history- David Price. Prospects were traded like candy. To me, that period was a bigger outlier than than the Bloom era of a near compete reversal of philosophy.

 

I wanted to believe it was a move towards a more balanced approach, and I felt with Ben, but the big trades never happened. It's been 7 years since the Sale trade and over 5 years since the Nate deal.

 

The Story and Yoshida signings are pretty significant, but counting inflation, they don't combine to equal the cost of Price- nor did Pablo & HRam combined.

 

The Devers extension might be the best sign the switch is being flipped, but I am not getting my hopes up on that front, anymore.

[moonslav59]

I think both were fired for not being Epstein.

 

Ever since the break up, Henry has been hiring CBOs based on their Epsteinability. He misses the winning record. He misses the burgeoning farm. He misses that little look Theo gave him over his shoulder. You know the one.

 

And so far - faint copies. Henry will never admit he misses Theo. That the break up did no one any good. But it’s obvious Henry misses him dearly and that his torch still burns. After all, he still wears the ring Theo gave him. In 2004.

 

And also the one from 2007…

 

The one thing that made life easier for Theo was that comp pick rule. The rule was intended to help poor teams get compensation for losing players to free agency, but Theo mastered the rule to his advantage. So much of our talent and depth came from comp picks, and we simply replaced our lost FAs with new ones- mostly ones that did not require the loss of a draft pick.

 

Some of us mentioned this as a reason we saw trouble coming down the road, since rebuilding the farm became much more difficult for winning and high spending teams after those rules were changed. The Sox were often winning and spending, and our ability to

just overpay draft picks with our lower picks hurt, badly. Signing bonus limits and the penalty for cheating all added to tougher times for the post Theo GMs.

[notin]

The one thing that made life easier for Theo was that comp pick rule. The rule was intended to help poor teams get compensation for losing players to free agency, but Theo mastered the rule to his advantage. So much of our talent and depth came from comp picks, and we simply replaced our lost FAs with new ones- mostly ones that did not require the loss of a draft pick.

 

Some of us mentioned this as a reason we saw trouble coming down the road, since rebuilding the farm became much more difficult for winning and high spending teams after those rules were changed. The Sox were often winning and spending, and our ability to

just overpay draft picks with our lower picks hurt, badly. Signing bonus limits and the penalty for cheating all added to tougher times for the post Theo GMs.

 

Actually the old system allowed for a team signing a free agent to lose their first round pick, but the team that lost the free agent gained two picks.

 

So Epstein did things like let Orlando Cabrera walk and signed his rough equivalent (and friend) Edgar Renteria from St. Louis. The Cardinals got the Sox first round pick (with which they selected Colby Rasmus), but when Cabrera signed with the Angels, the Sox got their first rounder plus a sandwich pick, and used them (I believe) to draft Ellsbury and Lowrie.

 

Epstein’s exploitation of this rule appeared to cause a revision in the whole draft compensation system…

[moonslav59]

The end of 2011 broke Henry's brain. That collapse made him push a big red button that he should have waited on. They had no pitching that September. If they ran that team back in 2012 with Theo and Tito, they would have been much much better and may have not had to do the Dodgers trade.

 

You are probably right, but something about that 2011 team screamed to blown up. Maybe the media hype brought on the feeling in me and others.

[Old Red]

You are probably right, but something about that 2011 team screamed to blown up. Maybe the media hype brought on the feeling in me and others.

 

The 2011 blew themselves up in Sept of that year.

[moonslav59]

The 2011 blew themselves up in Sept of that year.

 

It's never the players: blame the manager and GM!!!!

[notin]

The 2011 blew themselves up in Sept of that year.

 

They basically brought back the same team in 2012. But with Cody Ross!! Cherington finally broke it up with the Dodger trade in August of 2012 and then won a World Series 14 months later…

[moonslav59]

They basically brought back the same team in 2012. But with Cody Ross!! Cherington finally broke it up with the Dodger trade in August of 2012 and then won a World Series 14 months later…

 

It was a time-delayed detonation.

[Old Red]

It's never the players: blame the manager and GM!!!!

 

The players didn’t even invite Tito, and Theo in for chicken, and beer.

[moonslav59]

The players didn’t even invite Tito, and Theo in for chicken, and beer.

 

That was the real mistake made.

[Dipre]

So about the postseason......

[Bellhorn04]

The Phillies 1-2-3 of Schwarbs, Turner and Harper is something else right now.

[dgalehouse]

I am a believer in momentum. The Phillies are riding a wave of it right now. They are playing with a ton of confidence. Hitting on all cylinders. The question is : Are they too hot not to cool down ?

[Old Red]

I am a believer in momentum. The Phillies are riding a wave of it right now. They are playing with a ton of confidence. Hitting on all cylinders. The question is : Are they too hot not to cool down ?

 

Flintstone Schwarber is all, or nothing. Right now he’s all.