A Realistic View at 2024: Part I

[Old Red]

Red Sox regular season winning % by period

 

67-03: 53.8%, 0 championships

04-23: 54.5%, 4 championships

 

I think everyone knows this, and is not in dispute, but it doesn’t change anyone’s opinion.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ok do you just want above .500? Let’s not pretend a winning record automatically puts you in the playoffs. The 1979 Red. sox won 91 games and finished further outside the postseason picture than the 2023 team did…

 

You're still stalling. Answer the question.

[mvp 78]

Your right those two teams especially the 67 team was my favorite, because I was younger, and to me when your younger they seem to be bigger in aura than when you get older. Plus in 67 too they wasn’t on TV that often, and you had to tune into the old AM radio.

 

I still have a Mo Vaugh/Scott Cooper signed bat in my closet. Teams and players from when you are younger play such a big role in your perspective. Unfortunately, I wasn't around for the '67 or '75 years.

 

I think a large reason I pay attention to prospects is because I spent a lot of my summer nights at McCoy with my parents over the years than I ever did at Fenway when I was an adult and I lived less than 2 miles from Fenway for about 6 years.

[mvp 78]

I think everyone knows this, and is not in dispute, but it doesn’t change anyone’s opinion.

 

Does any opinion ever change on here?

[Old Red]

Does any opinion ever change on here?

 

No, but some try very hard, and say others are wrong, or is it just my imagination?

[notin]

You're still stalling. Answer the question.

 

Honestly, I think the more recent years where the highs offset the lows and the current postseason alignment allows for better chances to get in. I remember plenty of years where Sox winning teams had no chance at the postseason and were instead relegated to “Yankees’ inferior little brothers.” The 2022 and 2023 teams both had actual shots at the postseason if the CBO didn’t flail away fruitlessly at the deadlines.

 

And outside of 2020, which we knew was a step back, even the Sox last place teams have mostly hovered around .500. Not like we have seen any of them as unwatchable as a 55 win team. What does an 84 win 3rd place team that misses the postseason do that a 78 win last place team doesn’t, besides win one more game per month?

Edited December 4, 2023 by notin

[moonslav59]

I do cherish the titles, I really do. But to me there's no sugar-coating that since 2012 it's been a weird trip and all too often a real bummer trip.

 

I'd take 6-9 last place finishes for every ring.

[moonslav59]

It wasn't over analyzing, it was answering the question. 5GGGGG said he was happier before the WS than 04-23 and would have been a happier fan if they hadn't won a WS, but continued to have a higher Win %. I wouldn't.

 

Over and over we heard "just one before I die." I guess it wasn't true? People just wanted the loveable losers and the curse and that crap? I want championships and Ortiz sending Hunter into the pen and Mueller hitting walkoffs and unlikely Steve Pearce MVP's.

 

I answered the question. It just wasn't appreciated HOW I answered the question.

 

100%

[moonslav59]

I think everyone knows this, and is not in dispute, but it doesn’t change anyone’s opinion.

 

It changes mine, but I guess I'm nobody.

[Old Red]

I'd take 6-9 last place finishes for every ring.

 

1 last place finish to me is unacceptable no matter how many titles are won.

[moonslav59]

Honestly, I think the more recent years where the highs offset the lows and the current postseason alignment allows for better chances to get in. I remember plenty of years where Sox winning teams had no chance at the postseason and were instead relegated to “Yankees’ inferior little brothers.” The 2022 and 2023 teams both had actual shots at the postseason if the CBO didn’t flail away fruitlessly at the deadlines.

 

And outside of 2020, which we knew was a step back, even the Sox last place teams have mostly hovered around .500. Not like we have seen any of them as unwatchable as a 55 win team. What does an 84 win 3rd place team that misses the postseason do that a 78 win last place team doesn’t, besides win one more game per month?

 

To me, I'm okay with some down years, as long as the future keeps looking brighter, but there is a certain amount of time, where it becomes unbearable. That time seems to vary widely between fans.

 

To me, time is up. We better compete in 2024, or at least make a legitimate effort. The farm is where we want it to be. We can afford to trade some top prospects and still be plus.

 

We have some young and capable payers on the 26 and 40, who should provide a nice framework of a foundation for Brez to build up and fill in the holes. To me, it's all about the winter budget and if we go for quality over quantity.

[notin]

I still have a Mo Vaugh/Scott Cooper signed bat in my closet. Teams and players from when you are younger play such a big role in your perspective. Unfortunately, I wasn't around for the '67 or '75 years.

 

I think a large reason I pay attention to prospects is because I spent a lot of my summer nights at McCoy with my parents over the years than I ever did at Fenway when I was an adult and I lived less than 2 miles from Fenway for about 6 years.

 

Scott Cooper had a bat?

[moonslav59]

1 last place finish to me is unacceptable no matter how many titles are won.

 

I know this is your opinion.

 

Of course, I'd prefer several competitive seasons mixed in with a ring every 4-10 years, but just get me more rings. That's my main priority.

[Old Red]

Honestly, I think the more recent years where the highs offset the lows and the current postseason alignment allows for better chances to get in. I remember plenty of years where Sox winning teams had no chance at the postseason and were instead relegated to “Yankees’ inferior little brothers.” The 2022 and 2023 teams both had actual shots at the postseason if the CBO didn’t flail away fruitlessly at the deadlines.

 

And outside of 2020, which we knew was a step back, even the Sox last place teams have mostly hovered around .500. Not like we have seen any of them as unwatchable as a 55 win team. What does an 84 win 3rd place team that misses the postseason do that a 78 win last place team doesn’t, besides win one more game per month?

 

The 2022, and 2023 teams were just mirages to me that some saw like beating up on the Jays, and Yankees earlier last season as the team being that good. Once the mirages went away the Red Sox went away. Bad D, opener

after opener, and the lumber going into a slumber were not mirages, and the real Red Sox finished where they should have.

[Old Red]

To me, I'm okay with some down years, as long as the future keeps looking brighter, but there is a certain amount of time, where it becomes unbearable. That time seems to vary widely between fans.

 

To me, time is up. We better compete in 2024, or at least make a legitimate effort. The farm is where we want it to be. We can afford to trade some top prospects and still be plus.

 

We have some young and capable payers on the 26 and 40, who should provide a nice framework of a foundation for Brez to build up and fill in the holes. To me, it's all about the winter budget and if we go for quality over quantity.

 

Ah the future looking bright, and not the here, and now is one of the reasons that Bloom got fired. The future isn’t always as cracked up as it seems to be, and neither does the foundation. Like Cora said it doesn’t matter what the farm ranking is when you are sitting in last place with a losing record.

[moonslav59]

Ah the future looking bright, and not the here, and now is one of the reasons that Bloom got fired. The future isn’t always as cracked up as it seems to be, and neither does the foundation. Like Cora said it doesn’t matter what the farm ranking is when you are sitting in last place with a losing record.

 

Yes, that is your opinion.

 

Yes, that is a big reason Bloom was fired.

 

With the budget he was given, he should have done better to much better in 2022 and 2023. We should not be finishing in last place, when spending near the middle of the pack or better. I totally agree.

 

My "floor" is just give me a ring every 4-7 years (10 is pushing it.) I know Iam in a tiny minority, on this, but those first 30 years as a Sox fan were not as fun as the last 20, despite way more last place finishes in the last 20 years.

 

To each his own, I guess.

[mvp 78]

No, but some try very hard, and say others are wrong, or is it just my imagination?

 

I try not get dragged into that morass of negativity.

 

I don't see the harm in conversing and disagreeing. Sometimes there are things that are provably wrong like "I saw Valdez play SS and he looked good" which was virtually impossible.

[notin]

The 2022, and 2023 teams were just mirages to me that some saw like beating up on the Jays, and Yankees earlier last season as the team being that good. Once the mirages went away the Red Sox went away. Bad D, opener

after opener, and the lumber going into a slumber were not mirages, and the real Red Sox finished where they should have.

 

Had Bloom acquired a starting pitcher in either season, either of those teams could/should/would have finished much stronger . Or, at the very least, used fewer openers…

[mvp 78]

Scott Cooper had a bat?

 

I have a regulation sized PawSox bat that I got signed on the field by both players at one of their events.

[mvp 78]

Ah the future looking bright, and not the here, and now is one of the reasons that Bloom got fired. The future isn’t always as cracked up as it seems to be, and neither does the foundation. Like Cora said it doesn’t matter what the farm ranking is when you are sitting in last place with a losing record.

 

But that's the HOPE that 5GG was talking about. It was easier for them to HOPE prior to the current cycle. Some of us still have HOPE now.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd take 6-9 last place finishes for every ring.

 

Are you saying that you would take any number of 10 year stretches in which the Sox win a ring in 1 year and finish last in the other 9?

[Dipre]

But that's the HOPE that 5GG was talking about. It was easier for them to HOPE prior to the current cycle. Some of us still have HOPE now.

 

I like HOPE. I also like championships. This team has provided both in spades since 2003.

[Dipre]

Are you saying that you would take any number of 10 year stretches in which the Sox win a ring in 1 year and finish last in the other 9?

 

I think my math sounds better? 2 WS, 3-4 playoff runs besides that. The other years last place finishes. Keep it spicy.

[Bellhorn04]

I think it's OK to be both happy about the rings and unhappy about all the sub-.500 seasons. I don't think that makes you a bad person.

 

I tend to agree with Bill Maher when he says Americans now seem to have a lot of trouble keeping two separate thoughts in their head. It's like you have to be 100% on one side or the other.

[mvp 78]

I like HOPE. I also like championships. This team has provided both in spades since 2003.

 

Yeah, it's not the 9 last place finishes and 1 championship scenario that moon has presented.

[mvp 78]

I think my math sounds better? 2 WS, 3-4 playoff runs besides that. The other years last place finishes. Keep it spicy.

 

It keeps people punchy for sure.

[mvp 78]

I think it's OK to be both happy about the rings and unhappy about all the sub-.500 seasons. I don't think that makes you a bad person.

 

I tend to agree with Bill Maher when he says Americans now seem to have a lot of trouble keeping two separate thoughts in their head. It's like you have to be 100% on one side or the other.

 

I think most people are unhappy about the below .500 seasons. The argument seems to be that some people aren't unhappy enough.

[notin]

It keeps people punchy for sure.

 

I think most people are unhappy about the below .500 seasons. The argument seems to be that some people aren't unhappy enough.

 

And there is two sides to the changes in the game. Certainly the expanded wild cards make it easier to make the postseason, but also the 5 team divisions make it easier to come in last.

 

Ignoring 2020, three of the Sox remaining recent last place finishes involved teams winning 78 games. The previous stretch also included several 78 game winners, not one of whom came in last..,

[Bellhorn04]

And there is two sides to the changes in the game. Certainly the expanded wild cards make it easier to make the postseason, but also the 5 team divisions make it easier to come in last.

 

Ignoring 2020, three of the Sox remaining recent last place finishes involved teams winning 78 games. The previous stretch also included several 78 game winners, not one of whom came in last..,

 

Agreed that the finishing last part is overblown.

 

But I think finishing under .500 so many times is rather poor when you are the 3rd richest franchise in the game.

[mvp 78]

Agreed that the finishing last part is overblown.

 

But I think finishing under .500 so many times is rather poor when you are the 3rd richest franchise in the game.

 

How are we defining 3rd richest?