9/26 vs Rays

[mvp 78]

77-85 or 75-87. Does it really matter?

 

They can lose out the rest of the way and it doesn't matter. The only impact now is draft order. They should just play Abreu, Rafaela, Story (reps) and Valdez the rest of the way. I'd sit any bullpen arm you actually value like Chris Martin. Why risk him hurting himself in a meaningless game?

[moonslav59]

They can lose out the rest of the way and it doesn't matter. The only impact now is draft order. They should just play Abreu, Rafaela, Story (reps) and Valdez the rest of the way. I'd sit any bullpen arm you actually value like Chris Martin. Why risk him hurting himself in a meaningless game?

 

Agreed. I'd also try and get a look at Abreu in RF on defense.

[Maxbialystock]

One more loss and the Red Sox clinch their second sub .500 season in a row. For all of the fun that these owners have provided with 4 world championships, there have been a lot of sub .500 seasons without fun or competition. I remember a time when the Red Sox went 20 seasons or so in a row playing winning ball — with cheap ass management. There is no excuse for sub .500 seasons with their purse strings.

 

You refer of course to the 86 years of the curse of the bambino--mostly with Tom Yawkey as the owner.

 

About those purse strings. The Mets, Yankees, and Padres have the top 3 payrolls in MLB and will not make it to the postseason. The two best won-lost records in the AL belong to the Orioles (98-59) and Rays (96-62), and their payrolls are ranked 28th and 27th.

[Old Red]

You refer of course to the 86 years of the curse of the bambino--mostly with Tom Yawkey as the owner.

 

About those purse strings. The Mets, Yankees, and Padres have the top 3 payrolls in MLB and will not make it to the postseason. The two best won-lost records in the AL belong to the Orioles (98-59) and Rays (96-62), and their payrolls are ranked 28th and 27th.

So what does that tell you? The O’s, and Rays have better people in charge making the decisions? The Ray’s definitely haven’t missed Bloom.

[Maxbialystock]

When the Rays play the SOX, Cash will always out manage Cora.

 

You two are being just silly--or bitter or both. Cash has the pitching, 5th best team ERA in MLB, and Cora definitely does not, 21st best ERA. And 7 runs has been pretty standard for several decades for a starting pitcher who doesn't have it that game. That's especially true for a team with an over-used bullpen. But even with those issues the Sox bullpen gave up just 2 freaking runs in 6 freaking innings.

 

Do you guys know even the first thing about MLB?

[mvp 78]

Cash is a very good manager. Seems like he gets more out of his players than Cora does to me. I'd snap him up in a heartbeat.

[moonslav59]

So what does that tell you? The O’s, and Rays have better people in charge making the decisions? The Ray’s definitely haven’t missed Bloom.

 

The common denominator for the O's and Rays has been just how much their farms have bolstered their rosters. Suspects turned into gems. The O's have added almost nobody from outside the system- well a couple, maybe.

 

The Rays have made key trades and signings, but they would not be close to the winning team they are without their farm.

 

Name consistent winning teams that don't have one or both of these:

 

1. A strong farm (or had one before now)

2. Spend money or master trades.

[moonslav59]

So what does that tell you? The O’s, and Rays have better people in charge making the decisions? The Ray’s definitely haven’t missed Bloom.

 

They haven't missed Friedman, Click or Maddon, either.

 

This does show it can be an entire organization thing, more than one or two guys, yet blaming one or two guys seems to be the "in thing," these days.

[Old Red]

The common denominator for the O's and Rays has been just how much their farms have bolstered their rosters. Suspects turned into gems. The O's have added almost nobody from outside the system- well a couple, maybe.

 

The Rays have made key trades and signings, but they would not be close to the winning team they are without their farm.

 

Name consistent winning teams that don't have one or both of these:

 

1. A strong farm (or had one before now)

2. Spend money or master trades.

The O’s were not only bad, but real bad for a number of years, so i wouldn’t really compare them to the Ray’s situation. I’m all for not only building up the farm, but having a good crop for the future, but as always not at the expense of the big league club.

[Maxbialystock]

Cash is a very good manager. Seems like he gets more out of his players than Cora does to me. I'd snap him up in a heartbeat.

 

I'm sure he is, and he certainly has the record for it. That said, however, the key to the Rays success is their system for identifying and developing talent. They just lost their best player, Wander Franco, who might be gone for good, and they are still playing solid ball. Same goes for the Dodgers, who spend a lot more but also seem pretty good at identifying and developing and going after (Mookie) talent.

 

As for Cora, let's not forget he's got a WS title and Cash doesn't. In fact, 2018 was the best Sox team ever, in large part thanks to DD and the CBO he replaced.

 

Also, just 2 seasons ago the 2021 Sox had lost Sale (who pitched 42 innings in 2021), Price, Kimbrel, Mookie, Beni, JBJ, Moreland, et al from the 2018 team. And Cora managed them into the postseason, in which they played without a closer and still beat the Yankees and the 100 win Rays to get to the ALCS.

[Maxbialystock]

The common denominator for the O's and Rays has been just how much their farms have bolstered their rosters. Suspects turned into gems. The O's have added almost nobody from outside the system- well a couple, maybe.

 

The Rays have made key trades and signings, but they would not be close to the winning team they are without their farm.

 

Name consistent winning teams that don't have one or both of these:

 

1. A strong farm (or had one before now)

2. Spend money or master trades.

 

Agree on all. I believe JH's intent with Bloom was to do both, except that he was and may still be gun shy about spending big bucks on starters.

[mvp 78]

I'm sure he is, and he certainly has the record for it. That said, however, the key to the Rays success is their system for identifying and developing talent. They just lost their best player, Wander Franco, who might be gone for good, and they are still playing solid ball. Same goes for the Dodgers, who spend a lot more but also seem pretty good at identifying and developing and going after (Mookie) talent.

 

As for Cora, let's not forget he's got a WS title and Cash doesn't. In fact, 2018 was the best Sox team ever, in large part thanks to DD and the CBO he replaced.

 

Also, just 2 seasons ago the 2021 Sox had lost Sale (who pitched 42 innings in 2021), Price, Kimbrel, Mookie, Beni, JBJ, Moreland, et al from the 2018 team. And Cora managed them into the postseason, in which they played without a closer and still beat the Yankees and the 100 win Rays to get to the ALCS.

 

That bullpen had Ottavino and Whitlock. Saying they had no closer was a manager's choice IMO.

[Maxbialystock]

So what does that tell you? The O’s, and Rays have better people in charge making the decisions? The Ray’s definitely haven’t missed Bloom.

 

Agree the Rays have not missed Bloom. They probably have the best system--people--in MLB for identifying and developing talent. The Orioles might have a good system, but one excellent season is insufficient proof.

 

At the end of the day, I think postseason success, which the Sox have definitely had in the John Henry era, also requires spending some money. But even that requires some smarts--see the non-success this year of the Mets, Yankees, and Padres.

[Maxbialystock]

That bullpen had Ottavino and Whitlock. Saying they had no closer was a manager's choice IMO.

 

Of course it was the manager's choice. In fact, I insist on that characterization. It supports my point that Cora is a much better manager than you guys give him credit for being.

 

Go back and look at the 2021 stats and you will see Barnes was the closer--24 saves--for the first half of the season and then went south after MLB started checking gloves, etc of the pitchers every freaking inning. Ottavino was a has been (ERA 4.21) in 2021. And Whitlock could never, ever be confused with a real closer.

 

And let's not forget how lousy Kimbrel, a real closer in the regular season, was in the 2018 postseason with his freaking ERA of 5.91!

[moonslav59]

The O’s were not only bad, but real bad for a number of years, so i wouldn’t really compare them to the Ray’s situation. I’m all for not only building up the farm, but having a good crop for the future, but as always not at the expense of the big league club.

 

The Rays were the O's many years ago. They tanked to get several top picks, but yes, they have figured out a way to maintain a strong farm and big club long after the tanking effect.

 

The O's have yet to prove they can do that.

 

Some teams, like the Braves look awesome, now, but their farm has tumbled in the rankings, so it will be interesting to see what they look like when all these studs reach free agency and some become the next departing Freddie Freeman. How long can they keep it up?

 

The Astros have been losing some big stars for years and no longer have a stud farm. Is this season's swoon a sign that it is catching up with them, or was it just all the rotation injuries?

 

We'll see.

[notin]

That bullpen had Ottavino and Whitlock. Saying they had no closer was a manager's choice IMO.

 

They had a closer. All Star closer, in fact.

 

He just imploded in August of that year and never bounced back…

[moonslav59]

They had a closer. All Star closer, in fact.

 

He just imploded in August of that year and never bounced back…

 

Apparently, we were supposed to expect that and sign 2 more allstar closers, just in case....

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They had a closer. All Star closer, in fact.

 

He just imploded in August of that year and never bounced back…

 

None of the Sox' relievers in 2019 were as trustworthy in the second half, which may have been why Cora felt he had to use Pivetta to finish games in the LDS, and even a cooked Eovaldi in the LCS.

 

Meanwhile, Houston's 6-man relief crew -- fortified by legit reinforcements at the deadline -- allowed zero runs in sweeping the last three LCS games to get them into the World Series.

[Maxbialystock]

None of the Sox' relievers in 2019 were as trustworthy in the second half, which may have been why Cora felt he had to use Pivetta to finish games in the LDS, and even a cooked Eovaldi in the LCS.

 

Meanwhile, Houston's 6-man relief crew -- fortified by legit reinforcements at the deadline -- allowed zero runs in sweeping the last three LCS games to get them into the World Series.

 

I like that last sentence. A lot.