Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

I think some of you are missing ( deliberately?) the point . It's not just that Monty only won ten games last year, it's the fact that that is the best he has ever done. That is about all that I have. I hate to keep repeating myself. I hate to keep repeating myself. I hate to keep repeating myself.

 

And all I want to know is why this one statistic is so important it’s worth repeating endlessly…

[notin]

100% agreement. 2 days of Monty part 2, and no one has solved a thing, or changed their mind, but of course just to say we agree to disagree would be strictly forbidden, or prohibited on here, because of course to the sum of the few on talksox there can only be one opinion.

 

Stopping responding would be better than telling everyone else to. Work with what you can control…

[Old Red]

And all I want to know is why this one statistic is so important it’s worth repeating endlessly…

 

That’s an easy one. That’s the best in wins he’s ever done, and he’s only done it ONE time.🤭🙈🤭

[notin]

That’s an easy one. That’s the best in wins he’s ever done, and he’s only done it ONE time.

 

 

He’s also really only had 4 full seasons. (That should be a bigger concern, although starting 94 games and pitching 524 innings in the last three does at least offer some hope.)

[dgalehouse]

And all I want to know is why this one statistic is so important it’s worth repeating endlessly…

 

For the last time, how many games it wins determines the success or failure of a baseball team. Winning isn't the main thing, it's the only thing. ( Where did I hear that before ?) Your argument is that it's team wins that matters, not a pitcher's wins. And I say that each pitcher's wins are a part of the total team wins. We are getting nowhere with this. Have a nice day. Have a nice day. Have a nice day.

[Old Red]

Stopping responding would be better than telling everyone else to. Work with what you can control…

 

NO ONE has to respond at all. Just, because a poster pointed out that the most wins Montgomery has ever muster in a year was ten, and he’d only did it one time does not mean it should cause such a stir that’s been going on for two days now over, and over, and over again. You’re the one trying to tell someone else that it’s meaningless. Meaningless to you certainly doesn’t mean it’s meaningless to everyone as it’s been proven time, and time again on here. One opinion doesn’t suit one for all, and all for one, and that’s a fact. I certainly don’t comment on everything I disagree with, so maybe you should do the same. Put your bells, and whistles away. They don’t work.

[Old Red]

He’s also really only had 4 full seasons. (That should be a bigger concern, although starting 94 games and pitching 524 innings in the last three does at least offer some hope.)

 

Once again not disputed, and well known.

[notin]

Once again not disputed, and well known.

 

Even well-known by the guy who talked about all those “bad bad Yankee teams” he pitched for?

 

He had 2 full seasons in the Yankees, not counting 2020 for obvious reasons…

[Old Red]

Even well-known by the guy who talked about all those “bad bad Yankee teams” he pitched for?

 

He had 2 full seasons in the Yankees, not counting 2020 for obvious reasons…

 

If the so called great Monty would have been better in 2021 you know like win 7 games instead of 6 the Yankees would have beaten out the Red Sox.

[notin]

If the so called great Monty would have been better in 2021 you know like win 7 games instead of 6 the Yankees would have beaten out the Red Sox.

 

Do you have an argument that doesn’t involve misrepresenting opposing viewpoints? I guess that’s half of your two part arsenal.

 

1. Misrepresent opposing viewpoint

2. Repeatedly claim opponents misrepresent yours, especially when they don’t.

[Old Red]

Do you have an argument that doesn’t involve misrepresenting opposing viewpoints? I guess that’s half of your two part arsenal.

 

1. Misrepresent opposing viewpoint

2. Repeatedly claim opponents misrepresent yours, especially when they don’t.

 

Monty went 6-7 in 2021 for a 92 win Yankees team, which was one of those two years YOU mentioned.

[notin]

Monty went 6-7 in 2021 for a 92 win Yankees team, which was one of those two years YOU mentioned.

 

Yes, but I don’t put faith in W-L records for pitchers.

 

Did you know his 6 wins that year was third on the Yankees for starting pitchers? (Jameson Taillon, at 8-6, was second). Did you know the 2021 Yankees epitomize why pitcher W-L records really don’t matter much? (Hint: that bullpen grabbed lots of wins, because that can happen in today’s bullpen-based game that has gone a long way towards marginalizing the W-L record for pitchers)

 

I’m guessing you didn’t know that, or you never would have mentioned the 2021 Yankees in this discussion.

 

Well, you might have. I’m not entirely convinced you understand the point yet. You still seem to think it’s about Montgomery…

Edited March 1, 2024 by notin

[Old Red]

Yes, but I don’t put faith in W-L records for pitchers.

 

Did you know his 6 wins that year was third on the Yankees for starting pitchers? (Jameson Taillon, at 8-6, was second). Did you know the 2021 Yankees epitomize why pitcher W-L records really don’t matter much? (Hint: that bullpen grabbed lots of wins, because that can happen in today’s bullpen-based game that has gone a long way towards marginalizing the W-L record for pitchers)

 

I’m guessing you didn’t know that, or you never would have mentioned the 2021 Yankees in this discussion.

 

Well, you might have. I’m not entirely convinced you understand the point yet. You still seem to think it’s about Montgomery…

 

Poor Monty once again being in the wrong place at the wrong time under some wrong circumstances. Seems to be a common theme. 🤭🙈

[notin]

Poor Monty once again being in the wrong place at the wrong time under some wrong circumstances. Seems to be a common theme.

 

Out of curiosity, can you briefly state each side of the argument?

[mvp 78]

He’s also really only had 4 full seasons. (That should be a bigger concern, although starting 94 games and pitching 524 innings in the last three does at least offer some hope.)

 

He missed two seasons due to TJS. Aside from that, he's pitched full seasons every year since he's been signed.

Edited March 1, 2024 by mvp 78

[moonslav59]

He missed two seasons due to TJS. Aside from that, he's pitched full seasons every year since he's been signed.

 

I'm not worried about his health, all that much. The TJS adds risk to longer term deals, but to me, he'd be fine for 3 years, and to get a good pitcher like him, it almost always takes at least 1 more year.

 

I'd offer him a 3 year deal with a 4th year team option and hefty buyout, and if he insists on 4 guaranteed, I'd do it.

 

Maybe...

 

$70M/3 with a $20M option and $5M buyout- making it $75M/3 or $90M/4.

 

or

 

$85M/5 with $5M in incentives based on GS or IP.

 

I'd probably go as high as $80M/3 or $96M/4.

[mvp 78]

notin has a theory that post TJS guys only have 600 innings in their arms. Monty is at 574.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's March -- the month the regular season begins. If I'm a contender, I want my top pitchers getting ready together, drilling and practicing with the team, stretching it out and working up pitch counts in exhibition games...

 

... not glued to their cells awaiting reprieve from Warden Boras.

 

I dont care if he has his own camp; it's not the same and clock digits are flashing.

[mvp 78]

It's March -- the month the regular season begins. If I'm a contender, I want my top pitchers getting ready together, drilling and practicing with the team, stretching it out and working up pitch counts in exhibition games...

 

... not glued to their cells awaiting reprieve from Warden Boras.

 

I dont care if he has his own camp; it's not the same and clock digits are flashing.

 

At this point, wouldn't Snell and Monty be limited for the first week or two of the season?

[notin]

notin has a theory that post TJS guys only have 600 innings in their arms. Monty is at 574.

 

Not a theory. It was based on some study someone did.

 

However I don’t know of it is still valid as there may have been improvements in the surgery that nullify the older data points since the study was first done…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

At this point, wouldn't Snell and Monty be limited for the first week or two of the season?

 

"We're gonna take care of this kid," said Cora, about a grown man wearing a costume full of colorful logos and name and number on his back.

[mvp 78]

Not a theory. It was based on some study someone did.

 

However I don’t know of it is still valid as there may have been improvements in the surgery that nullify the older data points since the study was first done…

 

The record for most innings post TJS is David Wells at 3,439.

 

I couldn't find the study you referenced, just studies that suggest innings limits aren't necessary post-TJS.

[mvp 78]

"We're gonna take care of this kid," said Cora, about a grown man wearing a costume full of colorful logos and name and number on his back.

 

Return to tradition. All managers must dress like Connie Mack.

[notin]

The record for most innings post TJS is David Wells at 3,439.

 

I couldn't find the study you referenced, just studies that suggest innings limits aren't necessary post-TJS.

 

Might be outdated.

 

I never read it either, but saw it cited frequently…

[mvp 78]

@ChrisCotillo

Red Sox in agreement with CJ Cron, per source.

 

MiLB deal.

[cp176]

The record for most innings post TJS is David Wells at 3,439.

 

I couldn't find the study you referenced, just studies that suggest innings limits aren't necessary post-TJS.

 

someone said something about something so it must be true:p notin - this is just an example of my sense of humor.

[notin]

@ChrisCotillo

Red Sox in agreement with CJ Cron, per source.

 

MiLB deal.

 

Interesting.

 

Now go get Chapman and maybe Montgomery…

[moonslav59]

@ChrisCotillo

Red Sox in agreement with CJ Cron, per source.

 

MiLB deal.

 

Although he's not on the 40, this may signal the end to Dalbec's tenure on our 40.

[mvp 78]

Interesting.

 

Now go get Chapman and maybe Montgomery…

 

Chapman doesn't make sense for this team without a corresponding position player move.

[moonslav59]

Chapman doesn't make sense for this team without a corresponding position player move.

 

Agreed, unless we are okay with 4 position changes:

 

Devers to 1B

 

Casas to DH

 

Yoshida to LF

 

Duran to CF (Rafaela to AAA)

 

Just sign Monty and let the games begin.