Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

You just will never figure out why some fans express interest in payroll. Been explained to you dozens of times. Yet never seems to sink in..

 

We don’t know what Bogey would have signed for.

 

Probably all of us would haves loved getting him at 160/6. Most, including me, would have been fine with200/8, but I won’t speak for everyone.

 

Would he have taken that?

 

If he wanted 240/8, did we really make a major mistake?

[Dipre]

Exactly. (Too bad other fans are more concerned with Henry's bank account than what appears on the field.)

 

I'm sure those fans are still p.o.'d that the RS didn't get rid of Williams, when they had that far better fielder Gene Stevens ready to step in.

 

Build a better, bigger strawmam, you must

[Dipre]

NOBODY ever said the Red Sox should have given Bogey what SD did, and if things would have been done right by DD, and or Bloom they wouldn’t have had to.

 

No one can be certain of that other than Bogaerts himself.

[dgalehouse]

For many players, reaching free agency is the Holy Grail. It is presumptuous to think that they could have / should have been extended to prevent them from reaching what they see as the proverbial pot of gold waiting for them. And the hatred for Scott Boras is laughable. He is very good at what he does. Maybe the best. He is working for his clients , not for the owners and certainly not for us.

[Bellhorn04]

We don’t know what Bogey would have signed for.

 

Probably all of us would haves loved getting him at 160/6. Most, including me, would have been fine with200/8, but I won’t speak for everyone.

 

Would he have taken that?

 

If he wanted 240/8, did we really make a major mistake?

 

LOL that's almost as nutty as what he got from the Padres.

[Old Red]

LOL that's almost as nutty as what he got from the Padres.

 

Agree, and it definitely wasn’t that 1 yr extension that Bloom tried to pawn off on him either. What a joke that was.

[Bellhorn04]

Agree, and it definitely wasn’t that 1 yr extension that Bloom tried to pawn off on him either. What a joke that was.

 

Then, in typical fashion under Henry over the last decade, they make Bogaerts the offer of 6/162 that would have been fair earlier, but was now just another joke.

[Old Red]

Then, in typical fashion under Henry over the last decade, they make Bogaerts the offer of 6/162 that would have been fair earlier, but was now just another joke.

 

Nobody knows what Bogey would have done if that would have been offered after the 2021, or 2022 seasons, but it would have had a better chance than when it was finally offered.

[Meh]

I could see a route where the red sox could be a legit team...

 

Anthony, Yorke, Whitlock, monegro for Burnes

Three team deal

Twins get Bieber and Festa

Red Sox get Polanco and Stephen

Guardians get Rafaela, Jordan, and Houck

 

Paxton 1 year 15 mill

Monty 6 150 million

Sanchez 1 year 1 mill

 

Rotation Burnes, Monty, Bello, Paxton, Crawford

 

Jansen, Stephen, Martin, Schrieber, Kelly, Pivetta, and a st battle.

 

Line up

 

C Wong/Sanchez

Casas, Polanco, Story, Devers

Yoshida, Duran, ONeill.

DH is Sanchez and rotation of guys who need a break

Grissom, McGuire, Refs, Abreu makes up a solid and versatile bench.

[a700hitter]

I could see a route where the red sox could be a legit team...

 

Anthony, Yorke, Whitlock, monegro for Burnes

Three team deal

Twins get Bieber and Festa

Red Sox get Polanco and Stephen

Guardians get Rafaela, Jordan, and Houck

 

Paxton 1 year 15 mill

Monty 6 150 million

Sanchez 1 year 1 mill

 

Rotation Burnes, Monty, Bello, Paxton, Crawford

 

Jansen, Stephen, Martin, Schrieber, Kelly, Pivetta, and a st battle.

 

Line up

 

C Wong/Sanchez

Casas, Polanco, Story, Devers

Yoshida, Duran, ONeill.

DH is Sanchez and rotation of guys who need a break

Grissom, McGuire, Refs, Abreu makes up a solid and versatile bench.

Giolito?

[notin]

I could see a route where the red sox could be a legit team...

 

Anthony, Yorke, Whitlock, monegro for Burnes

Three team deal

Twins get Bieber and Festa

Red Sox get Polanco and Stephen

Guardians get Rafaela, Jordan, and Houck

 

Paxton 1 year 15 mill

Monty 6 150 million

Sanchez 1 year 1 mill

 

Rotation Burnes, Monty, Bello, Paxton, Crawford

 

Jansen, Stephen, Martin, Schrieber, Kelly, Pivetta, and a st battle.

 

Line up

 

C Wong/Sanchez

Casas, Polanco, Story, Devers

Yoshida, Duran, ONeill.

DH is Sanchez and rotation of guys who need a break

Grissom, McGuire, Refs, Abreu makes up a solid and versatile bench.

 

So… trade everyone for a bunch of new players?

[Randy Red Sox]

I could see a route where the red sox could be a legit team...

 

Anthony, Yorke, Whitlock, monegro for Burnes

Three team deal

Twins get Bieber and Festa

Red Sox get Polanco and Stephen

Guardians get Rafaela, Jordan, and Houck

 

Paxton 1 year 15 mill

Monty 6 150 million

Sanchez 1 year 1 mill

 

Rotation Burnes, Monty, Bello, Paxton, Crawford

 

Jansen, Stephen, Martin, Schrieber, Kelly, Pivetta, and a st battle.

 

Line up

 

C Wong/Sanchez

Casas, Polanco, Story, Devers

Yoshida, Duran, ONeill.

DH is Sanchez and rotation of guys who need a break

Grissom, McGuire, Refs, Abreu makes up a solid and versatile bench.

 

Paxton can be had for a lot less than 15 million

[Meh]

Giolito?

I forgot ab9ut him! 5ake out Paxton

[moonslav59]

LOL that's almost as nutty as what he got from the Padres.

 

That was kind of my point.

 

All w know for sure is that Bogey did not agree to any number we offered or floated or hinted at. We don’t know what those numbers were or what Bogey would have said yes to. For all we know he might have said no to $200M/8, unless offered 3+ years ago. Maybe $220/9 was his number.

 

Unless or until we know for sure, I’m not sure we can call it a mistake. Maybe, if we knew the number we’d have been glad we let him go, assuming we’d spend that

Money elsewhere. (Yeah right.)

[moonslav59]

I could see a route where the red sox could be a legit team...

 

Anthony, Yorke, Whitlock, monegro for Burnes

Three team deal

Twins get Bieber and Festa

Red Sox get Polanco and Stephen

Guardians get Rafaela, Jordan, and Houck

 

Paxton 1 year 15 mill

Monty 6 150 million

Sanchez 1 year 1 mill

 

Rotation Burnes, Monty, Bello, Paxton, Crawford

 

Jansen, Stephen, Martin, Schrieber, Kelly, Pivetta, and a st battle.

 

Line up

 

C Wong/Sanchez

Casas, Polanco, Story, Devers

Yoshida, Duran, ONeill.

DH is Sanchez and rotation of guys who need a break

Grissom, McGuire, Refs, Abreu makes up a solid and versatile bench.

 

No way I’d give that for 1 year of Burnes.

Sub Pivetta for Anthony and yes.

[Bellhorn04]

That was kind of my point.

 

All w know for sure is that Bogey did not agree to any number we offered or floated or hinted at. We don’t know what those numbers were or what Bogey would have said yes to. For all we know he might have said no to $200M/8, unless offered 3+ years ago. Maybe $220/9 was his number.

 

Unless or until we know for sure, I’m not sure we can call it a mistake. Maybe, if we knew the number we’d have been glad we let him go, assuming we’d spend that

Money elsewhere. (Yeah right.)

 

I think it was a mistake not to make the 6/162 offer they eventually made, back when it mattered.

 

It's not unreasonable to think Bogaerts would have taken taken something close to that, when you consider that Story took 6/140 and was a very comparable player to Bogaerts.

[moonslav59]

I think it was a mistake not to make the 6/162 offer they eventually made, back when it mattered.

 

It's not unreasonable to think Bogaerts would have taken taken something close to that, when you consider that Story took 6/140 and was a very comparable player to Bogaerts.

 

I think everyone agrees we should have offered $162M/6 at any point that Bogey would have taken it. No dispute.

 

My dispute is people assume he’d have taken it, and we blew it. I don’t accept that assumption. I do think he would have taken $200M/8 a couple years ago, or maybe NOV ‘22, but even that is an unfounded assumption.

 

I’m not saying the Sox missed some golden opportunities. I’m just saying we cannot state for a fact what Bogey would have accepted, so maybe it doesn’t even matter that we did not offer $162 or200M.

[moonslav59]

I think everyone agrees we should have offered $162M/6 at any point that Bogey would have taken it. No dispute.

 

My dispute is people assume he’d have taken it, and we blew it. I don’t accept that assumption. I do think he would have taken $200M/8 a couple years ago, or maybe NOV ‘22, but even that is an unfounded assumption.

 

I’m not saying the Sox missed some golden opportunities. I’m just saying we cannot state for a fact what Bogey would have accepted, so maybe it doesn’t even matter that we did not offer $162 or200M.

 

I meant to say did not miss some golden opportunities

[Bellhorn04]

I think everyone agrees we should have offered $162M/6 at any point that Bogey would have taken it. No dispute.

 

My dispute is people assume he’d have taken it, and we blew it. I don’t accept that assumption. I do think he would have taken $200M/8 a couple years ago, or maybe NOV ‘22, but even that is an unfounded assumption.

 

I’m not saying the Sox missed some golden opportunities. I’m just saying we cannot state for a fact what Bogey would have accepted, so maybe it doesn’t even matter that we did not offer $162 or200M.

 

Of course we can't state it as a fact.

 

By the same token we can't state for a fact that if we offered Mookie 10/350 he would have taken it.

 

You don't like dabbling in hypotheticals?

Edited December 31, 2023 by Bellhorn04

[moonslav59]

Of course we can't state it as a fact.

 

By the same token we can't state for a fact that if we offered Mookie 10/350 he would have taken it.

 

You don't like dabbling in hypotheticals?

 

I state my hypotheticals as such.

 

When people say “The Sox blew it by not extending Bogey, when they could have,” it sounds like a factual statement. I do think several posters still see it as a fact.

[Bellhorn04]

I state my hypotheticals as such.

 

When people say “The Sox blew it by not extending Bogey, when they could have,” it sounds like a factual statement. I do think several posters still see it as a fact.

 

I don't view that as a factual statement at all, it's clearly just an opinion.

 

We can't even state as a fact that they blew it with Mookie, because his deal still has 9 years to run and anything can happen.

[moonslav59]

I don't view that as a factual statement at all, it's clearly just an opinion.

 

We can't even state as a fact that they blew it with Mookie, because his deal still has 9 years to run and anything can happen.

 

When some posters say we blew it, t they sound like they think it is certain. Maybe I’m wrong on that.

 

Maybe they just think it was way more likely Bogey would have said yes tganks I do, which of course is fine.

 

Maybe a poster or two will chime in and say hey think it’s a fact, the Sox blew it with Bogey or even Betts.

 

On Betts, I suggested we offer $400M/12, and I think he’d have taken that but im still not certain.

[Bellhorn04]

When some posters say we blew it, t they sound like they think it is certain. Maybe I’m wrong on that.

 

We all do it.

[moonslav59]

We all do it.

 

Yes we often say things that sound like we think it is fact. We leave off the “I think” we blew it.

 

I do still think some posters are 100% certain Bogey would have taken 162/6. More think he’d have taken $200M/8 had it been offered prior to Nov ‘23 or before. I actuall th think he probably would have, but I’m very far from certain.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes we often say things that sound like we think it is fact. We leave off the “I think” we blew it.

 

I do still think some posters are 100% certain Bogey would have taken 162/6. More think he’d have taken $200M/8 had it been offered prior to Nov ‘23 or before. I actuall th think he probably would have, but I’m very far from certain.

 

As the saying goes, it's academic.

[Old Red]

We all do it.

 

Over, and over, and over again.

[Randy Red Sox]

Over, and over, and over again.

 

ENOUGH about Xander and Mookie OK ??? Let's move on !!

[Old Red]

ENOUGH about Xander and Mookie OK ??? Let's move on !!

 

I wasn’t talking about Mookie, and Bogey, but what gets perceived on here.

[Randy Red Sox]

I am getting tired of reading about those 2. It is old bloody news. I realize that this has been a slow offseason { AGAIN} but let's move forward

[moonslav59]

ENOUGH about Xander and Mookie OK ??? Let's move on !!

 

I feel the same way. Everything that can be said, already has been. Unless someone reveals more information, I think there is nothing more to be said.