Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Nick]

We clamored on this board to extend Devers. #1 priority before 2023 season starts everyone said. Sox sign him to a 10 year deal. Now all we can talk about his pending move to 1B where we have 5 year team controlled player that may finish 2nd in the Rookie of the Year Voting. I am shaking my head.

 

We got rid of the shortstop that lead the majors in errors at the time of the trade. We replaced him with a plus defender. It appears we have a future gold glove centerfielder close to the majors. I was led to believe Wong is a good defensive catcher. Maybe they were only talking about his 'pop' time being good.

 

One step at a time folks.

 

We did a great job shoring up the bullpen last year.

 

If we do the same with our starting rotation, our bullpen will even get deeper and stronger.

 

I really don't give a damn that we finished last. I'm sure the Yankee fans are doing cartwheels having not finished last. Yeah, right.

 

World championship rings. We may have to wait until 2025 to go for it. But I believe we're getting closer.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Which DH types do we have a chance to jettison this offseason.

 

I think the talk is about moving a current poor defender to FT DH or near FT DH, not jettisoning one or more.

 

My choice is Yoshida at DH FT with Casas playing there on his off days. That will give Casas some "rest" without losing his bat in the line-up.

 

Others suggest Casas to DH and Devers to 1B, which I think might happen, someday, but I would not do it in 2024.

 

Other Sox players who are poor defenders might fit the bill, but their bats or profiles don't quite fit the DH profile.

EValdez (LHB) & Refsnyder (RHB) but who wants to use two roster spots for marginal platoon bats?

Duran (LHB) Seems to have a chance to become a decent LF'er.

 

[Larry Cook]

I think the talk is about moving a current poor defender to FT DH or near FT DH, not jettisoning one or more.

 

My choice is Yoshida at DH FT with Casas playing there on his off days. That will give Casas some "rest" without losing his bat in the line-up.

 

Others suggest Casas to DH and Devers to 1B, which I think might happen, someday, but I would not do it in 2024.

 

Other Sox players who are poor defenders might fit the bill, but their bats or profiles don't quite fit the DH profile.

EValdez (LHB) & Refsnyder (RHB) but who wants to use two roster spots for marginal platoon bats?

Duran (LHB) Seems to have a chance to become a decent LF'er.

 

 

Just cassas, yoshida, and devers as DH types?

 

Basically only cassas has trade value. But he should be considered untouchable

[notin]

The option is not player friendly.

 

Bloom waited until the last minute several times. He should have, here.

 

 

 

Wacha wasn’t a difference maker.

 

He was a decent pitcher with major durability issues. Isn’t that another thing we had enough of?

[moonslav59]

Wacha wasn’t a difference maker.

 

He was a decent pitcher with major durability issues. Isn’t that another thing we had enough of?

 

Yes, but Kluber was maybe worse, in that area.

[moonslav59]

Just cassas, yoshida, and devers as DH types?

 

Basically only cassas has trade value. But he should be considered untouchable

 

My point was none look like we should be trading them.

 

We are likely to lose Turner and have 3 candidates on the 26, already, to take his place. I don't want to jettison any of the 3- just make one the next DH.

[notin]

Cut out the company line stuff about going into hiding you are just play copycat.

I have already said more than once that I believe JT is coming back, so all the suggestions I keep hearing is mute. I know how some get things in their craw, and think if they shout long, and loud enough Cora will hear,and do it. Just last offseason after Bogey left, and everyone was saying the Red Sox need to go out, and get a SS, and Story should stay at 2B. I kept saying that Story should be the SS, and that’s what they signed him for, and low, and behold if Story hadn’t of come up lame he would have been the opening day SS just like he is now. Or all the talk of Whitlock being in the rotation when for 2 years now I’ve been saying he should stay in the pen. They are not going to sign Chapman, who yes is a good 3B, but not much of a hitter, and would be too costly anyways when money should go to pitching. For better, or worse Raffy is your 3B, and Casas is your 1B, and hopefully they can get better on D. By the way have you figured out yet with 1 game to go that JT wasn’t signed for the bench. That was a doozy of a question you asked on that one.🙈

 

 

Too many people say stupid stupid like this.

 

“Don’t spend on the league-worst defense. It will just have to get better.” Or “give Casas a chance to get better.” And “Devers can get better.”

 

And they actually think this will work?

 

Maybe the Sox should also try this approach to pitching. Ignore it and hope it gets better miraculously. “Bello and Crawford will just have to do better.” (Ironically this is actually more likely than Casas and Devers improving defensively by merely trying harder.).

 

Or maybe the Sox should bring back Kluber and hope he can do better!! And Paxton can do better.

 

No bad contracts! Much cheaper!! Ignore and Hope for 2024!!

[Old Red]

Too many people say stupid stupid like this.

 

“Don’t spend on the league-worst defense. It will just have to get better.” Or “give Casas a chance to get better.” And “Devers can get better.”

 

And they actually think this will work?

 

Maybe the Sox should also try this approach to pitching. Ignore it and hope it gets better miraculously. “Bello and Crawford will just have to do better.” (Ironically this is actually more likely than Casas and Devers improving defensively by merely trying harder.).

 

Or maybe the Sox should bring back Kluber and hope he can do better!! And Paxton can do better.

 

No bad contracts! Much cheaper!! Ignore and Hope for 2024!!

Stupid is, and stupid does. The Red Sox spent $100M on an OF who is sow afoot, and not a good OF. The Red Sox spent $300M+ on a 3B who can hit, but can’t field his position. I just don’t think that D is as a big of a deal to the Red Sox as it is to us on here. Arroyo in RF, and Franchy at 1B what a circus. If you asked Cora who is going to be at 1B, and 3B next year most likely it is going to be Casas, and Raffy. Those are the cards they dealt themselves. Call it stupid all you want. It would be great if Raffy was a complete player, but he is not, and maybe never will.

[mvp 78]

Yes, but Kluber was maybe worse, in that area.

 

Kluber doesn't have durability issues. Kluber has an age issue and is ready for retirement. He's just a horse that needs to be put down. He could throw 180 innings, but would have a 7 ERA. Wacha would pitch better, but couldn't stay healthy.

[notin]

Stupid is, and stupid does. The Red Sox spent $100M on an OF who is sow afoot, and not a good OF. The Red Sox spent $300M+ on a 3B who can hit, but can’t field his position. I just don’t think that D is as a big of a deal to the Red Sox as it is to us on here. Arroyo in RF, and Franchy at 1B what a circus. If you asked Cora who is going to be at 1B, and 3B next year most likely it is going to be Casas, and Raffy. Those are the cards they dealt themselves. Call it stupid all you want. It would be great if Raffy was a complete player, but he is not, and maybe never will.

 

 

Well there will be some sort of change in personnel going on, and hopefully the new front office has a clue that defense is a big issue and usually the cheapest to fix. And it won’t go away by hoping Devers becomes a more complete player.

 

And keeping that horrible defensive alignment to accommodate a 39yo DH should be a firable offense…

[notin]

Kluber doesn't have durability issues. Kluber has an age issue and is ready for retirement. He's just a horse that needs to be put down. He could throw 180 innings, but would have a 7 ERA. Wacha would pitch better, but couldn't stay healthy.

 

Kluber threw 116 IP total from 2019 through 2021…

[mvp 78]

Kluber threw 116 IP total from 2019 through 2021…

 

Kluber threw 164 innings in 2022.

 

Wacha hasn't thrown that much in a year since 2017.

[notin]

Kluber threw 164 innings in 2022.

 

Wacha hasn't thrown that much in a year since 2017.

 

I’ve pointed that out as well.

 

Wacha was a clear durability issue. Kluber was a lesser one…

[Bellhorn04]

I’ve pointed that out as well.

 

Wacha was a clear durability issue. Kluber was a lesser one…

 

IMO Wacha was good for the price, especially in an age where such a high % of pitchers have durability issues.

[notin]

IMO Wacha was good for the price, especially in an age where such a high % of pitchers have durability issues.

 

I understand if the goal was to get a pitcher who could blow past the incredibly low threshold of 130 IP.

 

They absolutely failed to get one after being spurned by Eflin and Eovaldi.

 

Wacha actually might be available this year. SD might not exercise the team option, and Wacha has no real incentive to exercise an option he outpitched…

[mvp 78]

IMO Wacha was good for the price, especially in an age where such a high % of pitchers have durability issues.

 

$6.5M? Sure, but I don't know I would have wanted to sign him for 4 years. Weird terms on that contract though.

[mvp 78]

I understand if the goal was to get a pitcher who could blow past the incredibly low threshold of 130 IP.

 

They absolutely failed to get one after being spurned by Eflin and Eovaldi.

 

Wacha actually might be available this year. SD might not exercise the team option, and Wacha has no real incentive to exercise an option he outpitched…

 

If the goal was to get someone to lead the rotation, I don't think Kluber OR Wacha was a good bet. You can't wait out the market and hope a really great starting pitcher is available on cheap money.

[notin]

If the goal was to get someone to lead the rotation, I don't think Kluber OR Wacha was a good bet. You can't wait out the market and hope a really great starting pitcher is available on cheap money.

 

Unless you have suddenly adopted the mindset that $35mill AAV is “cheap money”…

[mvp 78]

Tom Werner would have had to sneak up behind on JH and Chaim with a frying pan and given them severe concussions for 35M to be cheap money.

[notin]

$6.5M? Sure, but I don't know I would have wanted to sign him for 4 years. Weird terms on that contract though.

 

The $6.5mill is a player option, followed by two $6mill player options.

 

Wacha has a 2-year $32mill team option that the Padres control. It’s not a no-brainer either way. But if the Padres do decline, Wacha has 3 players options for $6.5mill, $6mill and $6mill. No way he exercises the first one.

 

So he might be back on the market.

 

Wacha is talented but unreliable. If he’s available, he might be a decent cheap option. But a Plan B is essential…

[Old Red]

3 out the last 4 years the Red Sox have been a losing last place in the Div team, and for the 4th year in a row the Red Sox will raise ticket prices. What a deal!

[Bellhorn04]

3 out the last 4 years the Red Sox have been a losing last place in the Div team, and for the 4th year in a row the Red Sox will raise ticket prices. What a deal!

 

They really have a great feel for PR.

[mvp 78]

More last place finished in the last 10 years than any other MLB team is what I heard.

[Old Red]

More last place finished in the last 10 years than any other MLB team is what I heard.

 

6-12.🙈

[moonslav59]

Stupid is, and stupid does. The Red Sox spent $100M on an OF who is sow afoot, and not a good OF. The Red Sox spent $300M+ on a 3B who can hit, but can’t field his position. I just don’t think that D is as a big of a deal to the Red Sox as it is to us on here. Arroyo in RF, and Franchy at 1B what a circus. If you asked Cora who is going to be at 1B, and 3B next year most likely it is going to be Casas, and Raffy. Those are the cards they dealt themselves. Call it stupid all you want. It would be great if Raffy was a complete player, but he is not, and maybe never will.

 

OF OPS

 

.724 in 2021 with 240 RBI (many from Renfroe)

.676 in 2022 with 218 RBI

.783 in 2023 with 259 RBIs- your big stat.

 

90 rankings in DRS from 2021-2023

21. 2021 Sox +14

52. 2023 Sox -3 (about middle of the pack and better than 2022)

77. 2022 Sox -20

 

OAA

47. 2021 -1

76. 2023 -12

82. 2022 -14

 

But of course, your eye test on all 22 games you watched is most important.

[moonslav59]

Kluber doesn't have durability issues. Kluber has an age issue and is ready for retirement. He's just a horse that needs to be put down. He could throw 180 innings, but would have a 7 ERA. Wacha would pitch better, but couldn't stay healthy.

 

Kluber had a major injury and was never the same.

 

It was not his "age" that caused him to reach these IP totals since the injury:

36 in 2019

1 in 2020

80 in '21

164 in '22

 

Yes, Wacha has had more injuries and was never the work horse Kluber was, but he did have....

127 in '19

34 in '20

125 in '21

127 in '22

 

Neither has been "durable," recently.

[moonslav59]

Kluber threw 164 innings in 2022.

 

Wacha hasn't thrown that much in a year since 2017.

 

So, it's all about the max in one season in the past 4 that makes a pitcher more durable?

[moonslav59]

The $6.5mill is a player option, followed by two $6mill player options.

 

Wacha has a 2-year $32mill team option that the Padres control. It’s not a no-brainer either way. But if the Padres do decline, Wacha has 3 players options for $6.5mill, $6mill and $6mill. No way he exercises the first one.

 

So he might be back on the market.

 

Wacha is talented but unreliable. If he’s available, he might be a decent cheap option. But a Plan B is essential…

 

I get the argument that we did not know this was what Wacha could have been signed for, when we inked Kluber, but without a doubt, his contract was more team friendly. It's not even close.

[moonslav59]

3 out the last 4 years the Red Sox have been a losing last place in the Div team, and for the 4th year in a row the Red Sox will raise ticket prices. What a deal!

 

Are we going to hear this 200 more times before opening day 2024?

[notin]

Are we going to hear this 200 more times before opening day 2024?

 

Hopefully that few…