Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[cp176]

I got Mayer, Anthony, teel and winkleman on my untouchable list

 

What are you planning to do with Wong? Teel's rise has been very very quick. What I do not understand is if young players like Rafaela and Abreau represent our players of the future why are they not in the lineup daily? If you need a second baseman so desperately, why not give Yorke a shot?

[mvp 78]

well....i got crucified for suggesting that we trade Mayer. i'll say it again, i'd trade him in a second for proven #1 SP. and, after all, isn't the plan to draft dozens of shortstops and then trade them for proven SP?? ya' know, since we don't want to draft/ develop pitchers because they're such an unknown.

 

If you can get an ace, why wouldn’t you consider trading Mayer?

[mvp 78]

What are you planning to do with Wong? Teel's rise has been very very quick. What I do not understand is if young players like Rafaela and Abreau represent our players of the future why are they not in the lineup daily? If you need a second baseman so desperately, why not give Yorke a shot?

 

Wong would be a fine backup.

[mvp 78]

What are you planning to do with Wong? Teel's rise has been very very quick. What I do not understand is if young players like Rafaela and Abreau represent our players of the future why are they not in the lineup daily? If you need a second baseman so desperately, why not give Yorke a shot?

 

Yorke needs time in AAA. He’s maybe a late ‘24 call up.

[mvp 78]

Yamamoto is a must sign IMO. then and only then we sign Snell [1} or Nola {2}. I like Gray but he is getting up there in age. I f we dont get Yamamoto then I dont sign any of those other 4 because on their own they won't make enough of a difference. Out of your 2nd group of ideas I stay FAR FAR away from Strohman and i doubt Kershaw signs anywhere but LA. No way E-Rod comes back to Boston and I don't see any of the others worth the cost it would take to sign any of them.

 

No chance do they sign Yamamoto AND Snell or Nola. No f***ing way.

[Bellhorn04]

Kevin Gausman would have been a super-duper signing.

 

5 years/$110 mill

 

10.9 fWAR so far in 2 seasons. Any other starters doing better over the last two seasons? He didn't costs any prospects and his contract is not unreasonable.

 

I think maybe it's mid-range signings like this that are the answer. No guarantees, of course, but what pitcher is guaranteed any more?

[mvp 78]

Very easy to pick the right guy with hindsight.

[notin]

Yamamoto is a must sign IMO. then and only then we sign Snell [1} or Nola {2}. I like Gray but he is getting up there in age. I f we dont get Yamamoto then I dont sign any of those other 4 because on their own they won't make enough of a difference. Out of your 2nd group of ideas I stay FAR FAR away from Strohman and i doubt Kershaw signs anywhere but LA. No way E-Rod comes back to Boston and I don't see any of the others worth the cost it would take to sign any of them.

 

 

Gray is 33, and is very very likely to require less than 8 years on his deal. Possibly only 4…

If

[notin]

Very easy to pick the right guy with hindsight.

 

Then why doesn’t Bloom do it?

[Bellhorn04]

Very easy to pick the right guy with hindsight.

 

I realize that. At least we can see there's a possibility of making good signings that don't cost a mint.

 

We could trade Mayer in a package for an ace and that could blow up spectacularly in our faces.

 

We all know there is no guarantee of success with any signing or any trade.

[Bellhorn04]

Gray is 33, and is very very likely to require less than 8 years on his deal. Possibly only 4…

If

 

Gray seems like a very appropriate target.

[notin]

Kevin Gausman would have been a super-duper signing.

 

5 years/$110 mill

 

10.9 fWAR so far in 2 seasons. Any other starters doing better over the last two seasons? He didn't costs any prospects and his contract is not unreasonable.

 

I think maybe it's mid-range signings like this that are the answer. No guarantees, of course, but what pitcher is guaranteed any more?

 

 

Gausman posted 11.5 bWAR total over the first 8 years of his career. He was rewarded for his one stellar ninth season in MLB. Is this really the type of gamble you think the Sox need to take? Remember you’re consistently very down on a similar gamble in Yoshida.

 

There was plenty of reason to think the Gausman deal wouldn’t work out, and it still might not. But it was far from an obvious winner…

[notin]

No chance do they sign Yamamoto AND Snell or Nola. No f***ing way.

 

Or… any of them..

[Bellhorn04]

Gausman posted 11.5 bWAR total over the first 8 years of his career. He was rewarded for his one stellar ninth season in MLB. Is this really the type of gamble you think the Sox need to take? Remember you’re consistently very down on a similar gamble in Yoshida.

 

There was plenty of reason to think the Gausman deal wouldn’t work out, and it still might not. But it was far from an obvious winner…

 

Now try his fWAR.

 

And then point us in the direction of the obvious winners.

[Bellhorn04]

Gausman posted 11.5 bWAR total over the first 8 years of his career. He was rewarded for his one stellar ninth season in MLB. Is this really the type of gamble you think the Sox need to take? Remember you’re consistently very down on a similar gamble in Yoshida.

 

The comparison to Yoshida is...specious.

[Bellhorn04]

It appears that all the big players are in on Yamamoto. Cashman was there in person to see him toss the no-hitter.

 

I'd say there's no way Henry intends to try to win that auction. It's gonna get stupid. Maybe $250-275 mill?

[Hugh2]

Imagine sitting at 300 lbs and over 50% body fat. Your goal is to get into shape, and do a pro body building show.

 

So you go about doing just that, realizing it can’t be done in a year. Over the years you slowly lose the weight and build muscles. Slow, the right way, so it’s sustainable and you dont end up with flappy loose skin.

 

Several years later you’re sitting at 210 lbs and 18% body fat.

 

You look good, you look amazing, but you’re not ready to compete on stage yet. Not even close.

 

But you cash in your chips, and go up on stage with a bunch of men hovering around 5% body fat. Despite your successes and improvements you finish dead last, go eat at dennys and put on 20 lbs. sure you’re not back where you started but you fell flat on your face and set yourself back a few months.

 

To me. This is what Trading Casas or Mayer is like right now. It’s not that it’s the right or wrong move, but rather it’s the wrong time. Have a some damn patience.

 

There’s an actual Forrest past that tree you’re fixated on.

[notin]

Now try his fWAR.

 

And then point us in the direction of the obvious winners.

 

If I use fWAR as criteria, signing a Kluber was the right move…

[Bellhorn04]

If I use fWAR as criteria, signing a Kluber was the right move…

 

If you use it for the immediately preceding season only, sure.

 

If you disregard age and injury history prior to that preceding season, sure.

[Duran Is The Man]

If you can get an ace, why wouldn’t you consider trading Mayer?

 

i agree.

[notin]

If you use it for the immediately preceding season only, sure.

 

If you disregard age and injury history prior to that preceding season, sure.

 

But your argument against Kluber was his poor bWAR…

[notin]

The comparison to Yoshida is...specious.

 

You cited you wanted mid-range signings and accepted they are not guarantees. So they’re essentially a gamble. If you accept that you have to gamble, you should also accept that you will occasionally lose.

 

I’m all for the “mid range” signings, because they don’t require 7-8 years of commitment. But some of them are simply not going to work out and a big part of that is predicting the future just isn’t the exact science many want it to be…

[Bellhorn04]

But your argument against Kluber was his poor bWAR…

 

I think I used him as an example of a big spread between fWAR and bWAR and how in cases like that it might be appropriate to use FUBAR.

 

Admittedly, a lot of the criticism of the Kluber signing came after we actually saw him pitch and realized he had no fastball left.

 

The bottom line is, Bloom chose to add nothing but Kluber and it was a disaster. And like you keep saying, he did nothing about it even after seeing it was a disaster.

[Bellhorn04]

You cited you wanted mid-range signings and accepted they are not guarantees. So they’re essentially a gamble. If you accept that you have to gamble, you should also accept that you will occasionally lose.

 

I’m all for the “mid range” signings, because they don’t require 7-8 years of commitment. But some of them are simply not going to work out and a big part of that is predicting the future just isn’t the exact science many want it to be…

 

Starting pitchers are all gambles. Nobody has a simple answer. Bloom certainly hasn't shown us one.

[Duran Is The Man]

I think I used him as an example of a big spread between fWAR and bWAR and how in cases like that it might be appropriate to use FUBAR.

 

Admittedly, a lot of the criticism of the Kluber signing came after we actually saw him pitch and realized he had no fastball left.

 

The bottom line is, Bloom chose to add nothing but Kluber and it was a disaster. And like you keep saying, he did nothing about it even after seeing it was a disaster.

 

it's not like our best pitcher from the previous season was hanging out there available at a reasonable cost. oh....wait.

[Bellhorn04]

it's not like our best pitcher from the previous season was hanging out there available at a reasonable cost. oh....wait.

 

I guess Bloom thought bringing Wacha back would be too predictable. He likes to do the unexpected, even if the unexpected is s*****.

[notin]

I think I used him as an example of a big spread between fWAR and bWAR and how in cases like that it might be appropriate to use FUBAR.

 

Admittedly, a lot of the criticism of the Kluber signing came after we actually saw him pitch and realized he had no fastball left.

 

The bottom line is, Bloom chose to add nothing but Kluber and it was a disaster. And like you keep saying, he did nothing about it even after seeing it was a disaster.

 

That’s been my gripe multiple times.

 

Bloom clings to pitchers who clearly have no business being in MLB. That the Sox still control the rights to Kluber, Ort, and Jacques is just embarrassing…

[Duran Is The Man]

I guess Bloom thought bringing Wacha back would be too predictable. He likes to do the unexpected, even if the unexpected is s*****.

 

yep. he pays Yoshi stupid money but won't pay Wacha reasonable money. Bloom has not done one f***ing thing that has impressed me in four years.

[sk7326]

yep. he pays Yoshi stupid money but won't pay Wacha reasonable money. Bloom has not done one f***ing thing that has impressed me in four years.

 

Yoshi is a little rich but not crazy. But he really should be a full time DH.

[Duran Is The Man]

Yoshi is a little rich but not crazy. But he really should be a full time DH.

 

it's stupid when you consider his fWAR is about the same as Reyes.