August 27: Dodgers at Red Sox

[notin]

Some day someone has to explain how a slumping player can come out of a slump if you bench them when they're slumping.

 

You get them to demand a trade?

 

 

I think ideally one game should be the max a player did for slumping…

[notin]

Without cross checking all the team stats, do Red Sox hitters get hit by pitch more than other teams ?

 

 

With stat checking, the Sox are tied for 14th in MLB for HBP with 56. Seattle leads the way with 91…

[moonslav59]

Verdugo is a 27 year old, 7 year MLB starting player with clear signs of immaturity . He should be seen as a veteran leader on a team and in the clubhouse . He is coming up on a good payday after next year bassed on his abilities. I believe the Sox should trade him over the winter, get fair value, and move on to the younger guys like Abreu and Rafael.

 

I don't think we should extend Dugo, unless he takes a friendly deal, and why should he?

 

I agree: don't dick around, just trade him. Not hand him away. We should get some real value back.

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by moonslav59

[vegasbob]

Muncy has an odd hitting line with a .201 BA and a .810 OPS. Tells you he is an all or none type hitter. Edited August 27, 2023 by vegasbob

[Old Red]

I don't think we should extend Dugo, unless he takes a friendly deal, and why should he?

 

I agree: don't dick around, just trade him. Not hand him away. We should get some real value back.

 

Let’s see how Abreu finishes out the season before he gets penciled in for next year. Duran will be back some time too, so I don’t know how much playing time either will get. I don’t know if Dugy will get you a big return with only 1 year of control.

[vegasbob]

No way Gavin Stone should be shutting the Sox hitters down over 3+ innings, sporting a 2.47 WHIP and over 10. ERA. But this is the 2023 Sox who sometimes wait until the 8th to wake up the bats.

[Maxbialystock]

It's more about letting Verdugo go through his final arbitration year is my issue. Extend him or trade him. It's business.

 

And to remind you, last year he sucked as a defender by MANY on this board. And now he's a Gold Glove candidate. What happened? I hope he got better because he worked hard at it. Not because he was lazy in the past.

 

His attitude has been questioned by his manager, not by me.

Agree (of course) on the first part. He stunk in the outfield before moving to RF, where he has found his kaffi. His fielding style is like his batting style--almost casual, but definitely effective.

 

If Cora doesn't like his attitude, I'm with Cora, but he does have the highest WAR on the team.

[Nick]

He failed to run out grounders and showed up late to the park.

 

How is that something you don't question?

 

Moon, my response was NOT questioning Cora. It was made to a poster who thought questioning Verdugo's ability in light of him leading the Sox in War this year was off base.

 

You are arguing with the wrong person.

[Jasonbay44]

Mookie Betts is pretty good. Wish Red Sox had a guy like that

[Old Red]

If JH is there today after Mookie crossed HP he should have looked up, and waved to him.

[jad]

Mookie Betts is pretty good. Wish Red Sox had a guy like that

 

Naw, there's much better value checking the police blotter and injury reports.

[iortiz]

Mookie Betts is pretty good. Wish Red Sox had a guy like that

 

According to Mookie, he never received an offer from the Boston Red Sox.

 

It’s a shame they let that ball pass.

[moonslav59]

Moon, my response was NOT questioning Cora. It was made to a poster who thought questioning Verdugo's ability in light of him leading the Sox in War this year was off base.

 

You are arguing with the wrong person.

 

My bad.

 

Thanks for pointing this out.

[iortiz]

I don't think we should extend Dugo, unless he takes a friendly deal, and why should he?

 

I agree: don't dick around, just trade him. Not hand him away. We should get some real value back.

 

 

I would extend him according to his market value.

 

He’s a a very good player.

[a700hitter]

According to Mookie, he never received an offer from the Boston Red Sox.

 

It’s a shame they let that ball pass.

The worst decision since selling Babe Ruth. The guy can do everything, except pitch.

[moonslav59]

Deep hole to dig out of, but the bats need to wake up.

[Maxbialystock]

Deep hole to dig out of, but the bats need to wake up.

 

Like I've said repeatedly this season, the hitters need to bring home 5 or more runs in any game they want to win. This is especially true during this slog of 48 games with just 3 days off.

[iortiz]

The worst decision since selling Babe Ruth. The guy can do everything, except pitch.

 

They instead keep thinking this is Tampa Bay baseball. They have literally grabbed tons of garbage thinking this is going to work it out while trying to convince us (included me), they are a smart front office.

 

This team is and will be mediocre with our actual culture and philosophy — if there’s one.

[moonslav59]

Looks like Murphy's earlier play was a mirage.

[moonslav59]

They instead keep thinking this is Tampa Bay baseball. They have literally grabbed tons of garbage thinking this is going to work it out while trying to convince us (included me), they are a smart front office.

 

This team is and will be mediocre with our actual culture and philosophy — if there’s one.

 

When you start off with a 40 man roster with 20 holes and a massive budget cut, the dumpster bin is your "hood."

 

Each year, the winter budget grew a little bit, and there were less and less holes to fil, but even last winter's significant spending spree had to be used on too many slots to avoid not filling some with dumpster dives.

 

Speading out the money, like $10M/1 for a SP'er doesn't work, either.

[Maxbialystock]

20 games over .500 may not really be a big exaggeration. It's just 12 more than what we have, now..

 

Yes, but you also don't like our best (by a wide margin) defensive outfielder who also has the highest WAR on the team.

 

That said, I think we fundamentally disagree on the value of defense. MLB is dominated by pitching and hitting.

 

Thus exhibit A for the nondefense is Kike Hernandez, your favorite example of how disastrous the Sox defense has been this season. As I've already pointed out with the simplest of stats, the Sox had a better winning percentage in games Kike played than they have since he left.

 

Exhibit B is that right now middle infield defense is almost decent with Story/Reyes at SS and Reyes/Urias at 2B. But as always it's the hitting and pitching that win or lose games as is very clearly the case in the Dodger series. They have 4 errors to our 0 but they are outhitting the dickens out of the Sox and will likely take this series, 2 games 1 because Murphy--not, repeat, not the Sox defense--is terrible today. And so is the lineup (so far).

[iortiz]

When you start off with a 40 man roster with 20 holes and a massive budget cut, the dumpster bin is your "hood."

 

Each year, the winter budget grew a little bit, and there were less and less holes to fil, but even last winter's significant spending spree had to be used on too many slots to avoid not filling some with dumpster dives.

 

Speading out the money, like $10M/1 for a SP'er doesn't work, either.

 

Point is, we won’t go anywhere like this and seems like they love it.

 

In the end people will keep going to Fenway to sing Sweet Caroline while filling their pockets.

[iortiz]

Mookie is a beast!

[Maxbialystock]

My bad.

 

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

Yeah. He meant me. I had/have the temerity to defend lazy, immature, no-good, low-down Alex Verdugo. You know he's worthless when he wears that stupid gold chain when he's on the field. Oh, wait.

[Maxbialystock]

TBD vs Houck

 

Big game.

 

Batters are hot. Jansen is supposedly back.

 

The pen was taxed, today, so let's get some innings from Houck.

 

Go Sox!

 

 

Pretty good prediction about using the bullpen as little as possible today. Murphy has been awful, but Cora doesn't want to send more guys out there in a lost cause. I say "lost" because the hitting is moribund.

[moonslav59]

Yes, but you also don't like our best (by a wide margin) defensive outfielder who also has the highest WAR on the team.

 

That said, I think we fundamentally disagree on the value of defense. MLB is dominated by pitching and hitting.

 

Thus exhibit A for the nondefense is Kike Hernandez, your favorite example of how disastrous the Sox defense has been this season. As I've already pointed out with the simplest of stats, the Sox had a better winning percentage in games Kike played than they have since he left.

 

Exhibit B is that right now middle infield defense is almost decent with Story/Reyes at SS and Reyes/Urias at 2B. But as always it's the hitting and pitching that win or lose games as is very clearly the case in the Dodger series. They have 4 errors to our 0 but they are outhitting the dickens out of the Sox and will likely take this series, 2 games 1 because Murphy--not, repeat, not the Sox defense--is terrible today. And so is the lineup (so far).

 

Pitching and hitting do matter more than defense, but defense has cost us many games. I think it's safe to say it's between 10 and 20.

 

The fact that we won more games with Kike playing does not mean many of the losses were on him, while few of the wins were because of something he did. Many games we have lost on defensive mistakes not called errors. I'm not sure why you seem to want to deny that happening way too often and by enough times over the norm to put us in a playoff slot, right now.

 

Again, saying we should trade someone does not mean I dislike Dugo or value him less than you do. I've said he is one of our best 2 defensive OF'ers, His bat has been a plus. His fWAR reflects that, but it also means other GMs will give us something of value in retrun- perhaps at a position of greater need, where we don't have a Rafaela and Abreu pounding on the door.

 

[moonslav59]

Point is, we won’t go anywhere like this and seems like they love it.

 

In the end people will keep going to Fenway to sing Sweet Caroline while filling their pockets.

 

It's been a fun team to watch, unless you go into each game with a gripe on your mind.

[moonslav59]

Pretty good prediction about using the bullpen as little as possible today. Murphy has been awful, but Cora doesn't want to send more guys out there in a lost cause. I say "lost" because the hitting is moribund.

 

3-4 of our pitchers were not available do to use in the last game or two.

[iortiz]

It's been a fun team to watch, unless you go into each game with a gripe on your mind.

 

Well, I’ve been a Red Sox fan for a while and most of recent years haven’t been fun to watch, including this to me.

[jgar658]

Brasier goes to LA and becomes Sandy Koufax.

Pitching coach?

 

Kike goes from .220 average to .290.

Hitting coach?