August 26: Dodgers at Red Sox

[illinoisredsox]

This is the same team that gave absurdly lowball offers to Jon Lester and Xander Bogaerts.

 

Is it too much to believe they also tried to lowball Mookie? He has denied the rumored $300 mill offer ever happened.

 

So far as I can tell, Mookie has never mentioned specific numbers. He very carefully said the Red Sox didn’t make that offer. If it was $295M for 10 years or $300M for 11 years, he would be telling the truth. I’m usually on the players side on these things, but I think Mookie is being coy here.

 

He was determined to go to free agency and he did. I don’t think he was going to accept any offer before that happened.

[notin]

This is the same team that gave absurdly lowball offers to Jon Lester and Xander Bogaerts.

 

Is it too much to believe they also tried to lowball Mookie? He has denied the rumored $300 mill offer ever happened.

 

 

That’s 3 different administrations.

 

It’s also possible the “lowball” offers never happened. Fans do have a tendency to believe the players over the front office, despite that the players are not necessarily involved in the negotiations…

[Maxbialystock]

So far as I can tell, Mookie has never mentioned specific numbers. He very carefully said the Red Sox didn’t make that offer. If it was $295M for 10 years or $300M for 11 years, he would be telling the truth. I’m usually on the players side on these things, but I think Mookie is being coy here.

 

He was determined to go to free agency and he did. I don’t think he was going to accept any offer before that happened.

 

I'm never on the players side, not that I don't think Mookie is a great, great player and was a joy to have playing for the Sox. So of course he should be well compensated.

 

But who's kidding whom? $30M/year goes beyond the needs of avarice. I'm in my 80's and my after tax income is an insanely luxurious $135K/year. My wife and I want for nothing. Furthermore, I do not for a moment believe that billionaire owners pay all those big player salaries. Nosiree. They still want to show a profit, so the cost of those gargantuan salaries are passed along to us fans.

 

Thus, for example, the insane blackout restrictions on watching games on MLB.com, to say nothing of letting Apple and now that other outfit purchase some of those games from MLB and then charge us subscribers (to mlb.com/tv) extra if we want to watch a Sox game we guilelessly thought we'd already paid for. Goodness knows what the ticket prices are these days. What's a hot dog at the game cost these days?

 

And haven't MLB teams cut back on their minor league teams because they're just unaffordable to those billionaire owners?

 

When Curt Flood blew away the reserve clause, he did the right thing for all future MLB players, most of whom were underpaid (under the Reserve Clause).

 

But since then the MLBPA and especially the agents--all fully supported by the networks, the commentators, the sportswriters, et al who vehemently insist good players today are still underpaid and that no salary is too high--have in my opinion gone too far in the other direction.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Maxbialystock

[Bellhorn04]

So far as I can tell, Mookie has never mentioned specific numbers. He very carefully said the Red Sox didn’t make that offer. If it was $295M for 10 years or $300M for 11 years, he would be telling the truth. I’m usually on the players side on these things, but I think Mookie is being coy here.

 

He was determined to go to free agency and he did. I don’t think he was going to accept any offer before that happened.

 

Actually he didn't.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s 3 different administrations.

 

It’s also possible the “lowball” offers never happened. Fans do have a tendency to believe the players over the front office, despite that the players are not necessarily involved in the negotiations…

 

The Lester Lowball was well documented.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Lester Lowball was well documented.

 

Bogie's, too. He was so disappointed that the Sox only offered him one more year... when he was still in his 20s.

[moonslav59]

So what exactly is the evidence that he DIDN'T want to stay in Boston?

 

This gets to the drux of the whole debate: we don't know enough of the particulars to really know with any certainty how we could have kep Betts in Boston, and at what cost.

 

Betts is never going to say, I would have taken $____ over ___ years back in 2017 or 2018 or after 2019.

 

Players like to keep fans thinking they are loyal to them, the city and the team, so I'm not sure everything Betts says is totally upfront. When he says, I really wanted to stay in Boston, he would never add, "if they just pais me $400M/12." But, maybe that's what he was thinking, at the time. Maybe not.

[moonslav59]

Bogie's, too. He was so disappointed that the Sox only offered him one more year... when he was still in his 20s.

 

The time to have locked up Bogie was when we got him to sign the deal with the opt-out after 3 years. We should have just paid more, then, and had him until he turns 33 or 34. Same with Betts. Same with Lester.

 

Waiting for one more year is asking for trouble.

 

The funny thing about this is that many here argue we should have waited one more year to extend Sale- the best pitcher we've had since Pedro. You know, the position we can't seem to fill, adequately.

 

(Yes, he had injury issues. I get it, but when you wait, you risk the guy does great and will ask for and get the moon- with someone else.)

[Old Red]

This gets to the drux of the whole debate: we don't know enough of the particulars to really know with any certainty how we could have kep Betts in Boston, and at what cost.

 

Betts is never going to say, I would have taken $____ over ___ years back in 2017 or 2018 or after 2019.

 

Players like to keep fans thinking they are loyal to them, the city and the team, so I'm not sure everything Betts says is totally upfront. When he says, I really wanted to stay in Boston, he would never add, "if they just pais me $400M/12." But, maybe that's what he was thinking, at the time. Maybe not.

When it comes right down to it we fans don’t know much at all about what really happened in the negotiations between Mookie, and the Red Sox.Did the Red Sox offer $300M, or not? Did Mookie ask for $400M, or not? It seems strange that Mookie has waited 4 years until he came back to Boston to say the team didn’t offer $300M. I guess he didn’t want to be seen as the bad guy before he stepped into that batter’s box as a Dodger. Mookie didn’t ask to be traded, but I think he was thrilled it was to the Dodgers. He signed the contract before he played a game for them. Mookie may have liked playing for the Red Sox, but did he like Boston? Until.I hear facts to the contrary I’m going to keep on thinking Mookie, and the Red Sox both got what they wanted.

[Bellhorn04]

When it comes right down to it we fans don’t know much at all about what really happened in the negotiations between Mookie, and the Red Sox.Did the Red Sox offer $300M, or not? Did Mookie ask for $400M, or not? It seems strange that Mookie has waited 4 years until he came back to Boston to say the team didn’t offer $300M. I guess he didn’t want to be seen as the bad guy before he stepped into that batter’s box as a Dodger. Mookie didn’t ask to be traded, but I think he was thrilled it was to the Dodgers. He signed the contract before he played a game for them. Mookie may have liked playing for the Red Sox, but did he like Boston? Until.I hear facts to the contrary I’m going to keep on thinking Mookie, and the Red Sox both got what they wanted.

 

Sure, let's blame Mookie for not feeling it was his responsibility to air dirty laundry to the press. What a miserable guy!

[moonslav59]

When it comes right down to it we fans don’t know much at all about what really happened in the negotiations between Mookie, and the Red Sox.Did the Red Sox offer $300M, or not? Did Mookie ask for $400M, or not? It seems strange that Mookie has waited 4 years until he came back to Boston to say the team didn’t offer $300M. I guess he didn’t want to be seen as the bad guy before he stepped into that batter’s box as a Dodger. Mookie didn’t ask to be traded, but I think he was thrilled it was to the Dodgers. He signed the contract before he played a game for them. Mookie may have liked playing for the Red Sox, but did he like Boston? Until.I hear facts to the contrary I’m going to keep on thinking Mookie, and the Red Sox both got what they wanted.

 

There is a chance the Sox never made a formal $300M offer, but it was floated in negotiations as a starting point (or might have been the end point.) The response or nonresponse by the Betts negotiators might have given the Sox a clear impression, their offer was not even close, and they decided to move on right then and there, but like I said, who knows.

 

Your final statement seems very plausible, but I will add, trading Mookie might not have really been what the Sox wanted. They likely wanted him to stay for $300M/10, but once they knew that was a no go, they "wanted" to get what they could for him, and dump Price, at the same time.

[moonslav59]

Sure, let's blame Mookie for not feeling it was his responsibility to air dirty laundry to the press. What a miserable guy!

 

It does seem odd he never refuted the $300M "offer" until now.

 

I'm not sure why that is viewed as dirty laundry.

[Bellhorn04]

It does seem odd he never refuted the $300M "offer" until now.

 

I'm not sure why that is viewed as dirty laundry.

 

It was a rumor. What did he have to gain from refuting it? I guess now that he was being directly asked about what happened with the failed negotiations by the Boston media he decided to give them something. But then he said he didn't really want to talk any more about it.

 

To me he hasn't said or done a thing wrong, he has only said good things about his experience with the Red Sox, but still some folks want to find something to nail him for.

[Old Red]

It was a rumor. What did he have to gain from refuting it? I guess now that he was being directly asked about what happened with the failed negotiations by the Boston media he decided to give them something. But then he said he didn't really want to talk any more about it.

 

To me he hasn't said or done a thing wrong, he has only said good things about his experience with the Red Sox, but still some folks want to find something to nail him for.

 

I would rather have Mookie in a Red Sox uniform right now, and I’m not saying he did anything wrong, but like I said previously until I get some concrete evidence either way I’ll stick to the Red Sox, and Mookie both got what each wanted. Neither side wants to be the bad guy in this, and I think both are somewhat to blame. What % I don’t know.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I would rather have Mookie in a Red Sox uniform right now, and I’m not saying he did anything wrong, but like I said previously until I get some concrete evidence either way I’ll stick to the Red Sox, and Mookie both got what each wanted. Neither side wants to be the bad guy in this, and I think both are somewhat to blame. What % I don’t know.

 

Love Mookie, but was really rooting for him to make the last out last night, and relieved and glad when he did...

 

(what percent of Red Sox felt the same way: 99%?)

[Bellhorn04]

I would rather have Mookie in a Red Sox uniform right now, and I’m not saying he did anything wrong, but like I said previously until I get some concrete evidence either way I’ll stick to the Red Sox, and Mookie both got what each wanted. Neither side wants to be the bad guy in this, and I think both are somewhat to blame. What % I don’t know.

 

We'll never know what happened in negotiations. I just don't think Mookie had anything to do with the trade to the Dodgers. The Red Sox traded him there because there weren't many teams who would do a trade for a guy under contract for one year at $27 mill. The Dodgers were the perfect match. And you can't blame Mookie for taking $365 million from one of the richest teams in the game and a team set up for success.

 

But it was the Red Sox who sent him there.

[Bellhorn04]

Love Mookie, but was really rooting for him to make the last out last night, and relieved and glad when he did...

 

(what percent of Red Sox felt the same way: 99%?)

 

Mookie making an out there was a massive relief. A grand slam OTOH would have been nightmarish.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Mookie making an out there was a massive relief. A grand slam OTOH would have been nightmarish.

 

Especially for Bloom! He may have been fired on the spot... (if George Steinbrenner RIP owned the Sox).

 

Now, nobody can retort -- "not if George hired him to trade Mookie" -- because we all know the Boss would pay his star.

[Old Red]

We'll never know what happened in negotiations. I just don't think Mookie had anything to do with the trade to the Dodgers. The Red Sox traded him there because there weren't many teams who would do a trade for a guy under contract for one year at $27 mill. The Dodgers were the perfect match. And you can't blame Mookie for taking $365 million from one of the richest teams in the game and a team set up for success.

 

But it was the Red Sox who sent him there.

 

I don’t think anyone has said that Mookie had anything to do with the trade to the Dodgers, and I haven’t either. That was the result of the failed negotiations. I don’t blame Mookie either for taking the most amount of money he could get for someone else. I get it that you don’t want to blame Mookie for anything, and everything on the Red Sox, but until I get some concrete evidence either way I’m blaming both.

[Old Red]

Here it is 4 years later, and I don’t think we’re any closer to the truth between Mookie’s side, and DD, and Bloom’s side.

[jad]

I loved it. He's not on the SOX anymore, so fk him. He didn't want to stay in Boston because he knew he could make more money in LA on side projects. Fans are going crazy over a guy who didn't even want to play in their city.

 

Well, I guess now we know. Also, we have that doubt about which athletes it's ok to root for cleared up.

[moonslav59]

It was a rumor. What did he have to gain from refuting it? I guess now that he was being directly asked about what happened with the failed negotiations by the Boston media he decided to give them something. But then he said he didn't really want to talk any more about it.

 

To me he hasn't said or done a thing wrong, he has only said good things about his experience with the Red Sox, but still some folks want to find something to nail him for.

 

I don't see correcting a falso rumor, assuming it is, as being wrong, either. The timing seems weird.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't see correcting a falso rumor, assuming it is, as being wrong, either. The timing seems weird.

 

This may have been the first time he was specifically asked about what the Red Sox offered.

[moonslav59]

This may have been the first time he was specifically asked about what the Red Sox offered.

 

True, but you know he heard about the story of that $300M offer, long ago, and it put him in a somewhat bad light for years.

[Bellhorn04]

True, but you know he heard about the story of that $300M offer, long ago, and it put him in a somewhat bad light for years.

 

I'd say the Red Sox have been more in a bad light about this than Mookie has.

[moonslav59]

I'd say the Red Sox have been more in a bad light about this than Mookie has.

 

Agreed, but thinking Mookie turned down $300M did make him seem a bit selfish, to some, and goes against the idea that he really wanted to stay in Boston. He ended up getting close to that in LA.

 

Had he came right out, long ago, and said the Sox never offered that, the narrative would have shifted, IMO.

[moonslav59]

We need innings from Houck, today, but that third time through the line-up issue looms large over the team's head.

 

Let's see, if he can start turning those bad numbers towards the right direction.

[Bellhorn04]

Agreed, but thinking Mookie turned down $300M did make him seem a bit selfish, to some, and goes against the idea that he really wanted to stay in Boston. He ended up getting close to that in LA.

 

Had he came right out, long ago, and said the Sox never offered that, the narrative would have shifted, IMO.

 

I guess it just didn't bother him that much.

[Old Red]

I guess it just didn't bother him that much.

 

Not until he had to come back to Boston, and step in that batters box for the first time. He wanted to make sure the reception was more positive.

[notin]

This may have been the first time he was specifically asked about what the Red Sox offered.

 

It may be. But no way it is. It’s more likely just the first time he actually gave an answer…