The Red Sox starting rotation -- long term

[mvp 78]

Are they using him as an opener? Or just as a normal starter in the modern era of short start derangement syndrome? I did notice in his '23 splits on baseball-ref that Strahm's stats as a reliever in 7 appearances are a lot better...

 

Because he's better in shorter stints than longer ones.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Because he's better in shorter stints than longer ones.

 

Hey, give him a chance! At least Dombro's no brittle dino -- he looks at the younger generation of Rays Way execs around the compass, and is willing to copy them.

[MADSTORK]

If you value Drohan your delusional

 

Age 24 in High A doesn’t cut the mustard

 

10 ER in 11 innings in a Triple AAA beer league

Good luck with that!

 

Like I said more than once and I’ll say it again, Orlando should have but didn’t follow the great TEpstein’s philosophy when he took over Boston in 03 and again in Chicago, “ revamp the minor league scouting and developmental system “

Crockett Abrahams and Romero remain in key positions

They must have pictures

 

Those are the facts Gentlemen and the facts are undisputed

[notin]

If you value Drohan your delusional

 

Age 24 in High A doesn’t cut the mustard

 

 

 

Those are the facts Gentlemen and the facts are undisputed

 

Actually - not a fact…

[Hugh2]

If you value Drohan your delusional

 

Age 24 in High A doesn’t cut the mustard

 

10 ER in 11 innings in a Triple AAA beer league

Good luck with that!

 

Like I said more than once and I’ll say it again, Orlando should have but didn’t follow the great TEpstein’s philosophy when he took over Boston in 03 and again in Chicago, “ revamp the minor league scouting and developmental system “

Crockett Abrahams and Romero remain in key positions

They must have pictures

 

Those are the facts Gentlemen and the facts are undisputed

 

We can always count on your posts to bring the collective IQ on this board down a few notches.

[Hugh2]

Actually - not a fact…

 

Drohan made it to AA before he even turned 24, and even if he didn't so what?

[mvp 78]

Drohan currently has a 100% HR/FB rate in AAA. That's surely going to continue!

[notin]

Drohan made it to AA before he even turned 24, and even if he didn't so what?

 

He was in A+ at 23, but that’s not exactly uncommon for pitchers drafted out of college…

[Hugh2]

He was in A+ at 23, but that’s not exactly uncommon for pitchers drafted out of college…

 

And, he missed an entire season, as did all the MILBers. So, you have to take that into consideration as well.

 

I wonder what goes through STORKs head when he posts, he has to be trolling.

[moonslav59]

Valuing a 24 year old pitcher in AA is delusional.

 

Yup: trolling.

[notin]

And, he missed an entire season, as did all the MILBers. So, you have to take that into consideration as well.

 

I wonder what goes through STORKs head when he posts, he has to be trolling.

 

Certainly not coherent thoughts…

[mvp 78]

Bird brain.

[Dipre]

If you value Drohan your delusional

 

Age 24 in High A doesn’t cut the mustard

 

10 ER in 11 innings in a Triple AAA beer league

Good luck with that!

 

Like I said more than once and I’ll say it again, Orlando should have but didn’t follow the great TEpstein’s philosophy when he took over Boston in 03 and again in Chicago, “ revamp the minor league scouting and developmental system “

Crockett Abrahams and Romero remain in key positions

They must have pictures

 

Those are the facts Gentlemen and the facts are undisputed

 

Do you ever make a post that's not a massive turd of annoyance for the rest of the posters?

[Dipre]

RE: Payroll.

 

Why is it such a big deal? Some teams win throwing money at problems (2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2013, 2018), some teams win being annoying cheapskates who exploit inefficiencies in MLB's market or being real good at drafting (2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015), some teams do both (2017, 2020, 2022). It's not the approach, it's making the approach work.

 

I think Bloom will eventually spend, but he's trying to build up sustainable farm team a la Dodgers and then throw money at the right talent. That's the strategy I like as well.

[Bellhorn04]

RE: Payroll.

 

Why is it such a big deal? Some teams win throwing money at problems (2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2013, 2018), some teams win being annoying cheapskates who exploit inefficiencies in MLB's market or being real good at drafting (2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015), some teams do both (2017, 2020, 2022). It's not the approach, it's making the approach work.

 

I think Bloom will eventually spend, but he's trying to build up sustainable farm team a la Dodgers and then throw money at the right talent. That's the strategy I like as well.

 

There's no guaranteed formula, but there is a correlation between payroll and winning, with the Yankees and Dodgers being the prime examples. And as you noted, the Red Sox in particular have done well converting their high-priced acquisitions into championships.

 

Spending like Cohen did this past offseason is probably just stupid, though.

[mvp 78]

RE: Payroll.

 

Why is it such a big deal? Some teams win throwing money at problems (2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2013, 2018), some teams win being annoying cheapskates who exploit inefficiencies in MLB's market or being real good at drafting (2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015), some teams do both (2017, 2020, 2022). It's not the approach, it's making the approach work.

 

I think Bloom will eventually spend, but he's trying to build up sustainable farm team a la Dodgers and then throw money at the right talent. That's the strategy I like as well.

 

I like the strategy. I’m not sold they are the ones to do it.

[moonslav59]

RE: Payroll.

 

Why is it such a big deal? Some teams win throwing money at problems (2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2013, 2018), some teams win being annoying cheapskates who exploit inefficiencies in MLB's market or being real good at drafting (2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015), some teams do both (2017, 2020, 2022). It's not the approach, it's making the approach work.

 

I think Bloom will eventually spend, but he's trying to build up sustainable farm team a la Dodgers and then throw money at the right talent. That's the strategy I like as well.

 

Agreed, and it's always easier to build a team through spending, when you have a base or foundation on pre-arb and arb salaries that came from your farm or via trades or Rule 5/MiLFA/Waivers.

[Maxbialystock]

RE: Payroll.

 

Why is it such a big deal? Some teams win throwing money at problems (2004, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2013, 2018), some teams win being annoying cheapskates who exploit inefficiencies in MLB's market or being real good at drafting (2006, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015), some teams do both (2017, 2020, 2022). It's not the approach, it's making the approach work.

 

I think Bloom will eventually spend, but he's trying to build up sustainable farm team a la Dodgers and then throw money at the right talent. That's the strategy I like as well.

 

Good stuff. I think moonslav has been saying something similar--building the 40 man roster, but not being averse to spending where it will make a difference.

 

What we can't forget is that JH does have a vote in player acquisition.

[moonslav59]

Good stuff. I think moonslav has been saying something similar--building the 40 man roster, but not being averse to spending where it will make a difference.

 

What we can't forget is that JH does have a vote in player acquisition.

 

I remember thinking, way back when, we should have signed Scherzer not HRam & Pablito, but I think the plan was to wait a year on adding bigtime to the staff. Some argued the next year's class was bigger and better for pitchers, so it was a decent idea. (We signed Price the next winter.)

 

I'm not sure there is a lesson to be learned from that, as Scherzer turned out to be way better, but back then, it was not a known thing. I do know this: we have spent a hell of a lot of money on everyday players that look better than HRam and Pablito, but it's hard to evaluate the foundation. We certainly don't have young and inexpensive players like Betts, Bogey, Beni and more. The ones we have now, show promise but many are still unproven. Until we know they are for real (or not,) it's hard to know when JH feels "the time is now."

 

I'm hopeful, he does, but who knows? We don't even know that if he does feel like we are an ace away, he will spend, anyway.

 

On what we have spent, look at the shift away from SP dollars:

 

New spending only... (per year dollars)

 

2021:

$15M SP- Richards & Perez

$10M RP-Andriese, Sawamura (Ottavino via trade)

$13M Everyday- Kike, Renfroe, Marwin

 

2022

$18M SP- Wacha, Paxton, Hill

$11M RP- Strahm, Diekman, Robles, Davis (Barnes extension)

$28M Everyday- Story, Shaw (JBJ via trade)

 

2023

$10M SP- Kluber (Do we spend more if Paxton turns down $4M option?)

$25M RP- Jansen, Martin, Joely

$40M Everyday- Yoshida, Turner, Duvall, Tapia (Mondesi via trade)

 

2024

$29M x 10 Everyday- Devers

 

When you look at total cost of contracts (not AAV), WOW!

 

313/10 3B Devers

140/6 SS/2B Story

90/5 LF Yoshida (plus posting fee)

32/2 RP Jansen

24/3 CF/IF Kike (2 deals)

22/2 DH Turner

(19/2 RP Barnes extensión)

18/2 RP Martin

10/1 Kluber

10/1 Richards

10M/2 Paxton

5-7/1 Duvall, Wacha, Perez, Hill

 

It's easy to see where our new priority needs to be. I'm just not sure JH. Bloom & Co. are willing to address that need in dollars or by trading for an ace.

[mvp 78]

I remember thinking, way back when, we should have signed Scherzer not HRam & Pablito, but I think the plan was to wait a year on adding bigtime to the staff.

 

You can't always wait a year. You need to grab the FA you want when they guy is available even if it's a year or two early.

[moonslav59]

You can't always wait a year. You need to grab the FA you want when they guy is available even if it's a year or two early.

 

Of course.

 

I'm not sure they have seen anyone they really want. Rumors of wanting Heaney, Eflin and guys like that are not who I am thinking of.

 

I do think, with signing big FAs, the chances of failure is so high, especially in their later years of the deal- and sometimes as soon as year 2 or 3, you do want to time it just right.

[mvp 78]

Of course.

 

I'm not sure they have seen anyone they really want. Rumors of wanting Heaney, Eflin and guys like that are not who I am thinking of.

 

I do think, with signing big FAs, the chances of failure is so high, especially in their later years of the deal- and sometimes as soon as year 2 or 3, you do want to time it just right.

 

Signing Max back in 2014 would have made lots of sense. The FA's in 2022? None of them seemed like sure bets to me.

[Bellhorn04]

Signing Max back in 2014 would have made lots of sense. The FA's in 2022? None of them seemed like sure bets to me.

 

There are very few sure bets with pitchers. The sure bets go for around $324 million now.

[mvp 78]

There are very few sure bets with pitchers. The sure bets go for around $324 million now.

 

I don't think we've seen one the past 2 seasons. I have no idea what 2014 Max gets in 2023. Ohtani is set to get 600M, but he's a little unique.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think we've seen one the past 2 seasons. I have no idea what 2014 Max gets in 2023. Ohtani is set to get 600M, but he's a little unique.

 

2014 Max and Cole. 2 sure things in the last decade. Actually Max was more of an "after the fact" sure thing.

 

Waiting around for sure things just doesn't cut it.

[mvp 78]

2014 Max and Cole. 2 sure things in the last decade. Actually Max was more of an "after the fact" sure thing.

 

Waiting around for sure things just doesn't cut it.

 

This is his career leading up to FA:

fWAR

1.1 partial year

2.7

4.0

2.3

4.5

5.9

5.6

 

Every season his xFIP was under 4. His lowest inning total was 170 in 2009. He averaged 202.2 innings from 10-14.

 

While he got even better in WSH, he was a really great pitcher in DET and seemed like a very good bet to anchor a staff around for the length of his next contract.

[Dipre]

This team has enough money to gamble big on a pitcher with upside. I personally don't like that strategy, but that's a mistake the Rays can't make that the Sox can. Need to be cautious, but not to the point of not improving the team's present without sacrificing its future.

[notin]

You can't always wait a year. You need to grab the FA you want when they guy is available even if it's a year or two early.

 

 

With the lengths on contracts today, this is not always a problem…

[moonslav59]

Signing Max back in 2014 would have made lots of sense. The FA's in 2022? None of them seemed like sure bets to me.

 

Agreed, so it's hard for me to bash Bloom senseless over not signing deGrom or the like.

 

I will say, Price looked like as good a signing as Scherzer at the time of the signings. Not many SP'er had the record Price and Scherzer had when signed.

[moonslav59]

2014 Max and Cole. 2 sure things in the last decade. Actually Max was more of an "after the fact" sure thing.

 

Waiting around for sure things just doesn't cut it.

 

I think some were worried about Max's state of mind. (I'm not sure how to better wordsmith that.)

 

Price had a great record when signed and no hint of injury or decline.