Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[moonslav59]

He has 10k’s through 5 innings

 

This is his 4th start after one relief game.

 

IP H ER BB K

4, 1, 0, 1, 3

5, 4, 0, 1, 6

2.2, 2, 3, 3, 6

 

Tonight:

5.1, 3, 3, 2, 11

 

His ERA is 3.00, now.

[moonslav59]

Would anybody take kluber off our hands????

 

Maybe, just maybe... his wife.

[notin]

He really pushed for being a starter, so maybe they gave him an assurance.

 

Injury to Ranger Suarez pushed him there…

[oldtimer]

Would anybody take kluber off our hands????

 

Bloom looked for the goose that laid the golden egg with Kluber (and more so with Paxton) and instead laid a goose egg instead.

[moonslav59]

Bloom looked for the goose that laid the golden egg with Kluber (and more so with Paxton) and instead laid a goose egg instead.

 

You don't often find that goose at $10M/1.

 

Even $10M x 3 or 4+ won't get you an solid #2.

 

It's past time we started treating the SP'er role like it was important and worthy of investment.

[moonslav59]

We signed Price, traded for Sale then Nate, extended Sale and Nate, and then... poof.

 

Perez

Perez II

Richards

Wacha

Hill

Kluber

[Jasonbay44]

One thing is for sure - Houck needs a rotation spot locked up

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We signed Price, traded for Sale then Nate, extended Sale and Nate, and then... poof.

 

Perez

Perez II

Richards

Wacha

Hill

Kluber

 

For pitching, you don't always get what you pay for -- MadBum just got DFAed because his fastball is 89 mph...

 

... but if you're not paying for quality, expect what you get.

[Bellhorn04]

Wong has started 3 out of 10 games with a RH'd SP'er.

 

He has started 7 out of 8 with a LH'd SP'er.

 

He is the only catcher to catch Houck and Whitlock.

 

The 3 games he started vs RHPs?

 

1 with Crawford vs PIT

1 with Kluber vs PIT

1 with Sale vs MN

 

 

What about yesterday? Maeda makes it 4.

 

It's pretty obvious the team is favoring Wong now, isn't it?

[Bellhorn04]

The real question going forward is, are there any starters at all who should be matched with McGuire?

 

3 starts with Sale - all bad

3 with Kluber - all bad

1 with Bello - bad

1 with Pivetta - good

 

Maybe it will be Pivetta.

[notin]

The real question going forward is, are there any starters at all who should be matched with McGuire?

 

3 starts with Sale - all bad

3 with Kluber - all bad

1 with Bello - bad

1 with Pivetta - good

 

Maybe it will be Pivetta.

 

Not sure if you’re pro-CERA or anti-McGuire. Or for some odd reason, both.

 

The only thing we know I’d you’re pro-Small Sample Sizes…

[mvp 78]

I was surprised to see that Matt Strahm is a starter for the Phillies.

 

That was his goal all offseason. He told his agent he wanted to sign somewhere that would give him the chance to be a starter. I believe he came up as a starter too. Don't believe he was very effective back then.

[mvp 78]

Bloom looked for the goose that laid the golden egg with Kluber (and more so with Paxton) and instead laid a goose egg instead.

 

Yeah, you don't usually find an ace for 10M anymore.

[mvp 78]

One thing is for sure - Houck needs a rotation spot locked up

 

Seems like he's earning one. They better not start yo-yoing him around again.

[Bellhorn04]

Not sure if you’re pro-CERA or anti-McGuire. Or for some odd reason, both.

 

The only thing we know I’d you’re pro-Small Sample Sizes…

 

I'm just reporting on the facts, notin. At this point I'm not sure how anyone can't see they're favoring Wong, and why that might be...

 

Plus, your first sentence makes no sense whatsoever to me...

[Hugh2]

The real question going forward is, are there any starters at all who should be matched with McGuire?

 

3 starts with Sale - all bad

3 with Kluber - all bad

1 with Bello - bad

1 with Pivetta - good

 

Maybe it will be Pivetta.

 

If the argument is Wong might be a better defender and we value you at the plate enough to deal with a drop-off in offense (and I think Wong can get better on that side of the ball) then I can get on board with that. But are you against McGuire as the backup catcher? Because someone else is going to have to catch 40-50 games this year.

[Bellhorn04]

If the argument is Wong might be a better defender and we value you at the plate enough to deal with a drop-off in offense (and I think Wong can get better on that side of the ball) then I can get on board with that. But are you against McGuire as the backup catcher? Because someone else is going to have to catch 40-50 games this year.

 

I'll be against McGuire if the results continue as they have been. But you're certainly right, someone else has to catch 50 games or so.

[Hugh2]

Yeah, you don't usually find an ace for 10M anymore.

 

You don't even find an ACE for 20 million anymore. You CAN get an ace for about $27 though who has a very high chance of getting injured on you.

[Hugh2]

I'll be against McGuire if the results continue as they have been. But you're certainly right, someone else has to catch 50 games or so.

 

So who is your second catcher? don't say Alfaro....he's not a catcher.

[Bellhorn04]

So who is your second catcher? don't say Alfaro....he's not a catcher.

 

Don't have the answer.

[Hugh2]

Don't have the answer.

 

Because there isn't one. McGuire is a good catcher, and better than most teams' back up catchers.

[moonslav59]

What about yesterday? Maeda makes it 4.

 

It's pretty obvious the team is favoring Wong now, isn't it?

 

Yes. I think McGuire started the first 2 games of the season, so we all expected him to be "the main guy."

 

Maybe pitchers do feel more comfortable with Wong, and that is the major reason Wong seems to be the #1. We'll see.

 

At first, I thought maybe some of our younger guys had some experience with Wong on the farm, so that could be one reason, but not Kluber and Sale.

 

It's not a strict L-R platoon, for sure, but 7 or 8 starts vs RHPs does look like that is a factor with McGuire.

[Hugh2]

Most of the EGGS skewing those CERA stats have come with pitchers first and second starts. It's reasonable to assume that almost anyone can start off rusty and improve going forward. That's why this is such a ridiculous and ludicrous sample size to judge a guy in. It might be as absurd as judging batting averages after one series.

 

I think if anything the Sox have favored Wong because they realized they need to control the running game. I think McGuire may be a little better going forward because a lot of that is on the pitchers too and they need to adjust, but his pop times have gone down a bit this year and Wong has shown to have a good arm. McGuire has shown this year and in previous years that he's a very good blocker and pitch framer. And for almost a full year now he's been hitting above average for a catcher.

 

Both Wong and McGuire are playing at levels that could have them starting for a lot of other teams. Catcher really feels like the one position on this team we shouldn't be complaining about.....and yet it's dominating this board right now.

[Hugh2]

Yes. I think McGuire started the first 2 games of the season, so we all expected him to be "the main guy."

 

Maybe pitchers do feel more comfortable with Wong, and that is the major reason Wong seems to be the #1. We'll see.

 

At first, I thought maybe some of our younger guys had some experience with Wong on the farm, so that could be one reason, but not Kluber and Sale.

 

It's not a strict L-R platoon, for sure, but 7 or 8 starts vs RHPs does look like that is a factor with McGuire.

 

It's blatantly obvious a large factor is the platoon. They aren't going to faithfully follow it but you can see the generally stick to it. THat's obvious to the rest of us.

 

It will be interesting to see if we are wrong OR if the narrative changes when we have a couple weeks were we face almost all right-handed pitchers.

[Nick]

Each one of them have shown potential as a starter.

 

Whitlock (6 years of team control)

Kutter (6 yrs)

Bello (6 yrs)

Winckowski (6 yrs)

Houck (5 yrs)

 

One can dream.....

 

I'm beginning to think Duran should be in the conversation of our 'core group'. He looks like a different player at the plate.

[notin]

Most of the EGGS skewing those CERA stats have come with pitchers first and second starts. It's reasonable to assume that almost anyone can start off rusty and improve going forward. That's why this is such a ridiculous and ludicrous sample size to judge a guy in. It might be as absurd as judging batting averages after one series.

 

I think if anything the Sox have favored Wong because they realized they need to control the running game. I think McGuire may be a little better going forward because a lot of that is on the pitchers too and they need to adjust, but his pop times have gone down a bit this year and Wong has shown to have a good arm. McGuire has shown this year and in previous years that he's a very good blocker and pitch framer. And for almost a full year now he's been hitting above average for a catcher.

 

Both Wong and McGuire are playing at levels that could have them starting for a lot of other teams. Catcher really feels like the one position on this team we shouldn't be complaining about.....and yet it's dominating this board right now.

 

 

And with Sale there was probably/likely a fair amount of rust. Even before his last start, he was averaging over 93mph on his fastball, which is a good range for him and one in which he has had some success. Certainly that says nothing about his slider, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it took a few innings to get his feel back.

 

Kluber on the other hand is clearly in decline. He’s always lived and died by command, but even that has been off. He’s basically throwing 88mph meatballs either off the plate or too close to the middle of it. He might not survive the season, especially if someone like Walter or Mata can emerge…

[notin]

Each one of them have shown potential as a starter.

 

Whitlock (6 years of team control)

Kutter (6 yrs)

Bello (6 yrs)

Winckowski (6 yrs)

Houck (5 yrs)

 

One can dream.....

 

I'm beginning to think Duran should be in the conversation of our 'core group'. He looks like a different player at the plate.

 

I’m fine if Winckowski never starts another game. The Sox need arms that can get people out in the bullpen, too…

[mvp 78]

Each one of them have shown potential as a starter.

 

Whitlock (6 years of team control)

Kutter (6 yrs)

Bello (6 yrs)

Winckowski (6 yrs)

Houck (5 yrs)

 

One can dream.....

 

I'm beginning to think Duran should be in the conversation of our 'core group'. He looks like a different player at the plate.

 

I'd swap Winck for Walter. Winck has been very effective out of the pen. I think he takes a step back if he reverts to the starting role.

 

Kutter has been interesting at times. I don't know how sustained his success can be. Basically a replacement for Pivetta.

[mvp 78]

And with Sale there was probably/likely a fair amount of rust. Even before his last start, he was averaging over 93mph on his fastball, which is a good range for him and one in which he has had some success. Certainly that says nothing about his slider, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it took a few innings to get his feel back.

 

Kluber on the other hand is clearly in decline. He’s always lived and died by command, but even that has been off. He’s basically throwing 88mph meatballs either off the plate or too close to the middle of it. He might not survive the season, especially if someone like Walter or Mata can emerge…

 

Kluber was able to figure it out last season. He just lost too much velo this offseason. It comes quick for older pitchers. That's the risk Chaim is taking.

 

50% of the time I keep wanting to type in "Ben" instead of Chaim...

[notin]

Kluber was able to figure it out last season. He just lost too much velo this offseason. It comes quick for older pitchers. That's the risk Chaim is taking.

 

50% of the time I keep wanting to type in "Ben" instead of Chaim...

 

Not really.

 

His velocity declined steadily last year, cratering in July/August before a brief spike.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/corey-kluber/2429/graphs?pitchgraphs=true&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&start=2021&end=2023&rtype=mult&gt1=15&dStatArray=SI&ymin=&ymax=

 

Now he’s down at crater level already. If he continues this decline, he might soon be at the “Division I Softball” level velocity, but from 20 feet further away…