A Realistic View of 2023: Part II

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom said he only wanted to get controllable starters.

 

He reached out on Cease and the ChiSox wanted Bello.

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/btv-2023-trade-deadline-roundup/

 

The trades the Sox could have done:

 

Yarbrough - Yuck

Flaherty - traded for value of Drohan or Walter/Alcantara

Lorenzen - traded for value of Romero or Drohan/Meidroth

Hill - traded for value of Wikelman/Castro

Civale - value of someone better than Yorke, but MLB ready, Sox don't have that guy

Lynn - Yuck

Giolito/Lopez - value of Yorke and Rafaela

 

Which of those trades are you jumping on? Hill and Flaherty are the only 10/20 trades listed. If they trade for Hill (should have just signed him last offseason) and Flaherty, how much does it improve their chances?

 

I never thought this team had good enough pitching or defense to contend, but since Cora kept them close to the wild card this summer, it was worth a couple of mid-range prospects to make their best effort to join the crapshoot.

 

I'd be in on those deals for pitchers, except any that required dealing Rafaela -- who the Flops better hang onto as a priority if they ever want to improve their crap D. I also would've traded for Montgomery and Stratton. And here's why:

 

I have no idea how much one or two arms would improve their stretch run. But sometimes -- as has been well documented by players, ex-players in the media, and reporters -- just the gesture of a front office making a decent addition at the deadline gives a team the psychological boost, and vote of confidence, it needs to go for it...

 

... as opposed to what we've seen from the Red Sox players every single August of the Bloom Era -- including this one, so far.

[Randy Red Sox]

Hill has stated he wants to pitch in 2024. A perfect Bloom candidate for the taking.

Bloom said he only wanted to get controllable starters.

 

He reached out on Cease and the ChiSox wanted Bello.

 

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/btv-2023-trade-deadline-roundup/

 

The trades the Sox could have done:

 

Yarbrough - Yuck

Flaherty - traded for value of Drohan or Walter/Alcantara

Lorenzen - traded for value of Romero or Drohan/Meidroth

Hill - traded for value of Wikelman/Castro

Civale - value of someone better than Yorke, but MLB ready, Sox don't have that guy

Lynn - Yuck

Giolito/Lopez - value of Yorke and Rafaela

 

Which of those trades are you jumping on? Hill and Flaherty are the only 10/20 trades listed. If they trade for Hill (should have just signed him last offseason) and Flaherty, how much does it improve their chances?

[mvp 78]

Hill has stated he wants to pitch in 2024. A perfect Bloom candidate for the taking.

 

Even Rich Hill has an expiration date. According to Statcast, he's close to his. Doubt we see him in a Sox uni again.

[Dipre]

Nearly every poster on this forum -- not to mention Red Sox players themselves -- acknowledged the need for pitching help at the deadline: starters, back-end relievers -- hey, even a better freaking bulk guy would have been better than what Boston trotted out there this weekend.

 

To get a decent pitcher at the deadline (and I'm not including Verlander or Scherzer), the price was often a club's prospects in the #10-20 range. The Red Sox' farm system, recently ranked as high as #5 by some experts, has a surplus of middle infielders -- 13 of their top 28 by my count.

 

I don't know if any of the Sox prospects were that attractive -- maybe they're vastly overrated by their own organization -- but don't pretend you weren't disappointed that Bloom couldn't even at least acquire a relief pitcher better than Llovera or Joe Jacques.

 

And if it's true that nobody wanted any Sox prospects except our top 5, then that's just another indictment of Bloom the rebuilder...

 

None of this matters if it doesn't fit with the price of players of prospects, the control time, or overall price of the available players. Some people here seem to think other teams have to trade their players to the Red Sox for a just package no matter what, and that's not how it works. Not only that, for the thousandth time, if the players could run the team, they wouldn't need the FO. That appeal to authority fallacy is both tired and incorrect even in this context.

[mvp 78]

I never thought this team had good enough pitching or defense to contend, but since Cora kept them close to the wild card this summer, it was worth a couple of mid-range prospects to make their best effort to join the crapshoot.

 

I'd be in on those deals for pitchers, except any that required dealing Rafaela -- who the Flops better hang onto as a priority if they ever want to improve their crap D. I also would've traded for Montgomery and Stratton. And here's why:

 

I have no idea how much one or two arms would improve their stretch run. But sometimes -- as has been well documented by players, ex-players in the media, and reporters -- just the gesture of a front office making a decent addition at the deadline gives a team the psychological boost, and vote of confidence, it needs to go for it...

 

... as opposed to what we've seen from the Red Sox players every single August of the Bloom Era -- including this one, so far.

 

Missed the Montgomery trade. That value was Drohan and Hickey.

 

I don't think the Sox should have done the Civale/Giolito trades. Those asks are too high. I think they could have figured out some of the other ones, but would have passed on the Hill and Lorenzen price tags.

 

Personally, the team should be sorted out in the offseason and not have to wait for the "trade deadline" because you've already lost a few extra games by that point.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

None of this matters if it doesn't fit with the price of players of prospects, the control time, or overall price of the available players. Some people here seem to think other teams have to trade their players to the Red Sox for a just package no matter what, and that's not how it works. Not only that, for the thousandth time, if the players could run the team, they wouldn't need the FO. That appeal to authority fallacy is both tired and incorrect even in this context.

 

You should write this immediately to all the professional players, ex-players and reporters who stated the opposite before, during and after the deadline, and straighten them right out.

[Dipre]

You should write this immediately to all the professional players, ex-players and reporters who stated the opposite before, during and after the deadline, and straighten them right out.

 

The FO doesn't give a rat's ass about what they say, or think. If they did, they would have sold the farm for pitching. Clearly they did not.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Missed the Montgomery trade. That value was Drohan and Hickey.

 

I don't think the Sox should have done the Civale/Giolito trades. Those asks are too high. I think they could have figured out some of the other ones, but would have passed on the Hill and Lorenzen price tags.

 

Personally, the team should be sorted out in the offseason and not have to wait for the "trade deadline" because you've already lost a few extra games by that point.

 

Agreed. Starting pitchers who can get outs three times through the order seem like more of a premium than ever before. Adding better openers and/or bulk guys is still pushing the odds. Bullpen games might work once in awhile out of desperation, but to plan them every other night -- hoping that every reliever is on, when all it takes to backfire is if one is sore, tired or off -- is too big a gamble.

 

And any "rental" the Sox trade for should be assumed to be someone good enough -- and affordable enough -- to extend; this is the big market Boston Red Sox, after all.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The FO doesn't give a rat's ass about what they say, or think. If they did, they would have sold the farm for pitching. Clearly they did not.

 

One of these Augusts in Bloom's career (it may not be in Boston), he just might want to care, after seeing all those rats jumping off yet another sinking ship.

[Dipre]

Maybe he should start caring right now. But there's a big difference in what we think he should do, and what their plan is.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe he should start caring right now. But there's a big difference in what we think he should do, and what their plan is.

 

Agreed. But I have a hard time believing the plan was to be a .500 team or worse over the course of the 2022 and 2023 seasons. And it's not like they didn't spend some money.

[Dipre]

Agreed. But I have a hard time believing the plan was to be a .500 team or worse over the course of the 2022 and 2023 seasons. And it's not like they didn't spend some money.

 

As MVP said, they should have addressed this s*** show before the season. Everyone knew the rotation was a huge gamble, and they lost that bet. Trying to salvage a sinking roster by selling the farm out for rentals doesn't make sense to me. Who knows though? Maybe they get hot with a half-healthy Sale and Houck comes back effective and they sneak into the playoffs.

[mvp 78]

Maybe he should start caring right now. But there's a big difference in what we think he should do, and what their plan is.

 

Next season is year 5. If he gets there, it's probably time for him to try to push for the postseason a little harder than he did in 22 and 23. This is his team now.

 

We said last offseason that it was a big offseason for him, but if he can't figure out the starting rotation going into next year (and a plan for its future), he needs to go.

 

Sale - #5/IL, can't count on

Whitlock - put him in the pen

Bello - fine for a #2

Houck - back of the rotation arm/bulk arm

Crawford - back of the rotation arm/bulk arm

Pivetta - back of the rotation arm/bulk arm

Drohan - depth at the end of the year at best

 

They clearly need to add two arms IMO.

 

Bello

Yamamoto

Montgomery

Sale

Houck

Depth: Crawford/Pivetta/Drohan(late)

 

I feel comfortable with that rotation. You won't count on Sale to go the distance, but have two bulk guys in the pen that can fill in during his last season. I don't want Whitlock in the rotation anymore. He just can't stay healthy.

[mvp 78]

As MVP said, they should have addressed this s*** show before the season. Everyone knew the rotation was a huge gamble, and they lost that bet. Trying to salvage a sinking roster by selling the farm out for rentals doesn't make sense to me. Who knows though? Maybe they get hot with a half-healthy Sale and Houck comes back effective and they sneak into the playoffs.

 

That's quite the mountain they need to climb to get back into it. It won't be impossible, but it'll be rough. I think it's pretty much over.

[moonslav59]

That's quite the mountain they need to climb to get back into it. It won't be impossible, but it'll be rough. I think it's pretty much over.

 

Let's see after this 10 game "easier" stretch.

[mvp 78]

Let's see after this 10 game "easier" stretch.

 

Dropped 2 against OAK, SF, SEA, NYM since ASB

 

Their pitching looks taxed. Even a below average offense is going to take advantage of it.

[Dipre]

Dropped 2 against OAK, SF, SEA, NYM since ASB

 

Their pitching looks taxed. Even a below average offense is going to take advantage of it.

 

Beating the good teams, losing to the bad teams. Mark of a bad team.

[mvp 78]

Beating the good teams, losing to the bad teams. Mark of a bad team.

 

It's really just playing .500 against everybody. If they played a longer series against the Braves, it wouldn't have been a sweep.

[moonslav59]

Dropped 2 against OAK, SF, SEA, NYM since ASB

 

Their pitching looks taxed. Even a below average offense is going to take advantage of it.

 

Exactly. They were also 7-0 v TOR, 4 days ago.

 

This next 10 games may mark the start of a change- or not.

[mvp 78]

@ChrisCotillo

Red Sox select the contract of righty Dinelson Lamet and designate Richard Bleier for assignment.

[Dipre]

@ChrisCotillo

Red Sox select the contract of righty Dinelson Lamet and designate Richard Bleier for assignment.

 

Lots of 3-1 counts and 4 pitch walks. My favorite!

[Randy Red Sox]

Another Bloom BBB goes by the wayside

@ChrisCotillo

Red Sox select the contract of righty Dinelson Lamet and designate Richard Bleier for assignment.

[mvp 78]

Lots of 3-1 counts and 4 pitch walks. My favorite!

 

Last time out for WOO, he only got to 3 ball counts 6 times in 5 innings. That's like a perfect game for him. He's on a roll. Had to call him up. He's also a guy you can throw innings at and blow out their arm and it doesn't matter.

[notin]

@ChrisCotillo

Red Sox select the contract of righty Dinelson Lamet and designate Richard Bleier for assignment.

 

I wasn’t huge on Bleier, but he was better than Jacques and Llovera…

[mvp 78]

Another Bloom BBB goes by the wayside

 

They could've kept Matt Barnes instead? He had season ending surgery almost 4 weeks ago!

[mvp 78]

I want huge on Bleier, but he was better than Jacques and Llovera…

 

Someone on here said we had depth!!!

 

Not yet buddy. The AAA bullpen is dark and full of terrors.

[notin]

Someone on here said we had depth!!!

 

Not yet buddy. The AAA bullpen is dark and full of terrors.

 

Lamet is actually very talented. The problem is pitching causes him physical pain…

[Jasonbay44]

Lamet is actually very talented. The problem is pitching causes him physical pain…

 

He’s very bad. He allowed 60 base runners in 25 innings this season and was one of worst pitchers in baseball.

[moonslav59]

Someone on here said we had depth!!!

 

Not yet buddy. The AAA bullpen is dark and full of terrors.

 

Well, the expected rotation was supposed to be Sale, Paxton, Kluber, Pivetta and Whitlock, so technically this was the rotation depth:

 

Houck

Bello

Crawford

Winckowski

Mata

Walter

Murphy

 

If you want to argue Bello was always going to be given a rotation slot, then move Pivetta or Whitlock to rotation depth.

 

The pen was not so deep with talent, but I think the hope was that we'd have more than 1 pitcher with 15+ GS'd, by now, and some could be used in the pen.

 

The expected 8 in the pen might have been:

 

Jansen

Martin

Schreiber

Bello or Whitlock

Houck

Bleier

Brasier

Joely

 

The depth:

Crawford

Winckowski

Kelly & Ort

Mata, Walter, Murphy

 

I guess we should have planned for 99 injuries. (Not a sarcastic statement.)

 

 

(Bernardino added after some DFA's)

 

[mvp 78]

He’s very bad. He allowed 60 base runners in 25 innings this season and was one of worst pitchers in baseball.

 

He was promising a few years ago and one of the names originally floated in Padres deals for Mookie pre 2020.