Devers signs 11 year $331 million extension

[Bobe2]

But NESN isn’t necessarily Red Sox personnel…

 

Sorry if it can’t be notarized

[Old Red]

Did he ever specifically say he wanted a RHH outfielder to platoon with JBJ?

 

I recall it being much more open-ended than that, mentioning an outfielder, which certainly could have meant as a starter. But the point is, eventually Story filled the need. In March…

If Bloom didn’t think he needed someone to platoon with JBJ that’s almost as bad as trading for him in the first place. Wrong on all accounts.

[moonslav59]

Correct, and I did it in real time too just like the backend of the BP. Bloom has a hard time doing something in real time when something is actually needed.

 

I don't disagree, but acquiring players in May is not a common occurrence.

 

There was some context involving the 1B situation, I mentioned earlier, that might explain why we didn't aim to find a 1Bman earlier, but the act is, our 1B position sucked all year- in hindsight.

 

The RF situation was not so complex or contextualized. Refsnyder became a viable RH'd bat in RF, eventually, but was not really used as a platoon RF'er. Curiously, he started 20 games vs RH'd SP'ers and only 15 vs lefties. The 35 GS'd total is also a wonder, when you look at his .881 OPS. The avoidance of using Dugo in RF vs lefties or righties seemed peculiar to me. Only after we acquired Pham to play LF, did it suddenly seem okay for Dugo to play in RF, and he basically ONLY played RF after that trade.

 

I agree with Red that RF was a real head-scratcher, but we might disagree on what parts were head-gouging.

 

While 1B was a disaster, and Red did call it that from nearly day one, I see reasons why it was not addressed until Hosmer and the eventual Casas call-up.

 

The lack of added pen help was not something easily fixed in May, and I feel like injuries to our rotation forced pen decisions that were not good and somewhat unplanned for. Sure, we should have planned on Sale and Paxton being out, but we had 3-4 SP'ers out at the same time for some long stretches of 2022. Needing to start Houck and then Whitlock some, not only took them from the pen, but it also messed them up, IMO.

 

Bloom had limited resources, since I do think resetting was still a priority and the no trading of top prospects mandate.

 

Blaming is fine, but there is context involved.

 

[moonslav59]

If Bloom didn’t think he needed someone to platoon with JBJ that’s almost as bad as trading for him in the first place. Wrong on all accounts.

 

You can't get any worse than trading for JBJ in the first place.

 

IMO, the trade is actually worse, if you did it thinking he'd be on the bench.

[Old Red]

I don't disagree, but acquiring players in May is not a common occurrence.

 

There was some context involving the 1B situation, I mentioned earlier, that might explain why we didn't aim to find a 1Bman earlier, but the act is, our 1B position sucked all year- in hindsight.

 

The RF situation was not so complex or contextualized. Refsnyder became a viable RH'd bat in RF, eventually, but was not really used as a platoon RF'er. Curiously, he started 20 games vs RH'd SP'ers and only 15 vs lefties. The 35 GS'd total is also a wonder, when you look at his .881 OPS. The avoidance of using Dugo in RF vs lefties or righties seemed peculiar to me. Only after we acquired Pham to play LF, did it suddenly seem okay for Dugo to play in RF, and he basically ONLY played RF after that trade.

 

I agree with Red that RF was a real head-scratcher, but we might disagree on what parts were head-gouging.

 

While 1B was a disaster, and Red did call it that from nearly day one, I see reasons why it was not addressed until Hosmer and the eventual Casas call-up.

 

The lack of added pen help was not something easily fixed in May, and I feel like injuries to our rotation forced pen decisions that were not good and somewhat unplanned for. Sure, we should have planned on Sale and Paxton being out, but we had 3-4 SP'ers out at the same time for some long stretches of 2022. Needing to start Houck and then Whitlock some, not only took them from the pen, but it also messed them up, IMO.

 

Bloom had limited resources, since I do think resetting was still a priority and the no trading of top prospects mandate.

 

Blaming is fine, but there is context involved.

 

I agree fixing the BP is May is not a easy thing, but my problem all along was not having an actual closer to start the season. That to me was unacceptable.

[moonslav59]

I agree fixing the BP is May is not a easy thing, but my problem all along was not having an actual closer to start the season. That to me was unacceptable.

 

A lot of people thought that was a problem from day one. I'd have liked one, too, but established closers are costly, and it looked like we were trying to stay under the tax line and did not want want to trade any meaningful prospects, so that added context makes it hard for me to just simply say "it's unacceptable." Do we not sign Wacha or Hill & Strahm combined, so we can sign a closer? Who do we trade for a closer? To me, it's rarely as simple as just saying "it was a mistake." It's usually and either or choice, like we should have added a closer, instead of Wacha. In hindsight, do we know that specific choice would have helped as much as it hurt the rotation?

 

Also, I feel that had we just named Houck or Whitlock the closer, and kept him there, all year, we'd have done better in that slot, but again, maybe worse on slots where those two did pitch.

 

I saw Bloom's winter challenge as having something like 8 slots to fill and only the resources to fill 5-6 adequately, so he had to pick 2-3 to "fudge." He picked the 3 you point out. Had he picked 3 others, like SP (Wacha & Hill) or 2B (Story), we'd probably be criticizing him for not adding a starter as being unacceptable.

 

What kills me is that we ended up going over the tax line, so much of the reasoning (or excuses as some prefer to call them) was all for naught.

 

I can understand not wanting to trade any promising prospects. I get that part. I don't get the budget botch, and I'm not sure that is on Bloom as much as upper brass for flipping priorities everytime the wind shifted.

 

 

 

[notin]

I agree fixing the BP is May is not a easy thing, but my problem all along was not having an actual closer to start the season. That to me was unacceptable.

 

They had several, but they all struggled…

[Old Red]

They had several, but they all struggled…

 

Yes we’ve heard that from you before, but I should have said a good actual closer. Barnes Had been so good he had been left off the PS roster, and then of course Robles. Not what they should have started any season with.

[Jasonbay44]

They had several, but they all struggled…

 

I’m not sure I would consider Robles and Barnes closers, both were coming off very underwhelming years and are extremely inconsistent

[moonslav59]

Yes we’ve heard that from you before, but I should have said a good actual closer. Barnes Had been so good he had been left off the PS roster, and then of course Robles. Not what they should have started any season with.

 

Barnes did make the AS game as a closer in 2021, so one can think there was hope that he, Houck or Whitlock could fill the role.

 

To me, it came down to Bloom needing to choose which high need slots to fill and which to leave to what we had, at the time.

 

IMO, a GM should try to fill the slots he feels have the worst internal options.

 

Last winter we had:

 

1B: Dalbec coming off a red hot second half of the season and a career .800+ OPS after his first 550 MLB PAs.

RF: JBJ (w little OF depth of Duran and unknown Refsnyder)

Pen: Barnes, Houck, Whitlock, Taylor, Brasier, Valdez and others

2B: Arroyo and his injury history

SP: Nate, Pivetta & Sale (known to be out for 3-4 months) Lost: ERod, Richards, Perez)

 

Bloom rightfully chose to fill 2-3 SP'er slots (Wacha & Hill/Paxton)and 2-3 pen slots (Strahm, Diekman & Robles), but chose wrongly on 2 of the 3 pen arms. Schreiber, added in 2021 came through, though.

 

He chose 2B (Story) over 1B and RF.

 

I suppose he could have spread Story's money thinner over RF, 2B and the pen or 1B, but he gets bashed for low impact signings every time he makes one.

 

It's give and take and either/or. It's not as simple as some seem to make it out to be.

 

[notin]

I’m not sure I would consider Robles and Barnes closers, both were coming off very underwhelming years and are extremely inconsistent

 

Barnes was an All Star closer the year before, and early on they did use Diekman in that role a lot…

[Jasonbay44]

Barnes was an All Star closer the year before, and early on they did use Diekman in that role a lot…

 

Barnes was also taken out of the role due to his struggles after being an “all star” the same year.

[notin]

If Bloom didn’t think he needed someone to platoon with JBJ that’s almost as bad as trading for him in the first place. Wrong on all accounts.

 

So now you’re changing your complaint. And to something else completely unverified…

[notin]

Barnes was also taken out of the role due to his struggles after being an “all star” the same year.

 

Yes. He ended 2021 struggling through a bad 10 IP stretch…

[notin]

Yes we’ve heard that from you before, but I should have said a good actual closer. Barnes Had been so good he had been left off the PS roster, and then of course Robles. Not what they should have started any season with.

 

Actually you should get the complaint right.

 

Bloom’s mistake was not getting someone to start in place of Sale. The end of the 2021 season showed us all a Whitlock/Houck combination was excellent at closing out games. That should have been left in place rather than bouncing one or both in and out of the rotation…

[mvp 78]

Yes we’ve heard that from you before, but I should have said a good actual closer. Barnes Had been so good he had been left off the PS roster, and then of course Robles. Not what they should have started any season with.

 

Barnes was INJURED.

[mvp 78]

Actually you should get the complaint right.

 

Bloom’s mistake was not getting someone to start in place of Sale. The end of the 2021 season showed us all a Whitlock/Houck combination was excellent at closing out games. That should have been left in place rather than bouncing one or both in and out of the rotation…

 

Or had just left one of them as the closer and kept them there all year.

[Jasonbay44]

Yes. He ended 2021 struggling through a bad 10 IP stretch…

 

And wasn’t named the closed next year due to how bad he was. He’s been an average to slightly above reliever his whole career with an extremely small sample size at closer due to no other choice. He isn’t a real closer.

[moonslav59]

Actually you should get the complaint right.

 

Bloom’s mistake was not getting someone to start in place of Sale. The end of the 2021 season showed us all a Whitlock/Houck combination was excellent at closing out games. That should have been left in place rather than bouncing one or both in and out of the rotation…

 

The Hill signing made sense- likely available early in the season and may wear out late in the season, when Sale might be ready.

 

The Wacha signing was a gamble, but with the same context as the Hill signing- perhaps replaced by Sale, late in the season.

 

It was the Paxton signing that made no sense. Why have 2 pitchers, you know won't be ready (at the same times) until late in the season?

 

Using that money to sign someone better than Diekman or a SP'er (with Diekman's money added) who was expected to be ready for opening day made more sense.

 

As it turned out, we coulda/shoulda signed a bunch or other guys, since we ended up going over the tax line, anyway, but I think the offseason was geared towards staying under. To me, that means any suggested ideas of what we should have done should be coupled with what we should not have done as an offset to the budget.

 

Certainly, taking back the JBJ trade would be at the top of everyone's list, and many not in hindsight, but all but the Diekman ($4M), Robles $2.25M and maybe Story ($20M) signings worked out pretty well.

 

No JBJ, Diekman and Robles and having Renfroe in RF at $7.7M vs JBJ at $12M lux tax would give us about $14M to spend on the pen and 1B, assuming Renfroe in RF. Seems like enough to make a difference, but I did like the Wacha, Hill, Strahm and yes, the Story signings, and the additions of Schreiber and Refsnyder worked out well, too.

 

All in all, I don't see Bloom winter 2021-2022 as being a net negative, but it could have been better, for sure.

[Old Red]

Barnes was INJURED.

 

The reason Barnes was left off the PS roster was not, because he was injured.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

What does that have to do with anything? During the regular season Vaz was buried on the bench in HOU. They could have re-signed Vaz in the offseason if they wanted to.

 

Catching a no-hitter in the World Series has only been done by one other catcher in the history of baseball. He had a couple big hits and earned his second ring.

 

I'm not even a Vazquez fan, but trading him for prospects -- and the way it was handled -- wasn't perceived as a rallying point for his teammates and manager in a playoff run.

[redsoxrules]

Stop it. Devers is better and younger than Xander.

 

He's younger for sure which is obviously a good thing but to say he's better is incorrect.

 

XB has been the Sox best player since Mookie left. Obviously I would have not signed to what San Diego BUT they could of signed him for probably under 200M last year and they screwed the pooch

[Old Red]

Actually you should get the complaint right.

 

Bloom’s mistake was not getting someone to start in place of Sale. The end of the 2021 season showed us all a Whitlock/Houck combination was excellent at closing out games. That should have been left in place rather than bouncing one or both in and out of the rotation…

 

Whitlock started the season in the pen as the long man, and tried to get a four inning save on opening day, so if he started, or not he was not opening the season as a closer, and the only reason Whitlock got put into the rotation at the time was because Houck wasn’t vaxed. Neither one was going to start the season near the backend of the BP.

[moonslav59]

The reason Barnes was left off the PS roster was not, because he was injured.

 

Maybe due to poor pitching in 10 IP to close out the season, which many felt was injury-related.

[Old Red]

He's younger for sure which is obviously a good thing but to say he's better is incorrect.

 

XB has been the Sox best player since Mookie left. Obviously I would have not signed to what San Diego BUT they could of signed him for probably under 200M last year and they screwed the pooch

 

Misread the room first is how I like to put it, and then botched, and butchered things.

[Old Red]

Maybe due to poor pitching in 10 IP to close out the season, which many felt was injury-related.

 

Maybe, but he was still pitching.

[redsoxrules]

Since the departure of Mookie,

Xander 12 WAR

Devers 9.9 WAR

 

You tell me who's the better player

[notin]

Or had just left one of them as the closer and kept them there all year.

 

Left one at closer and the other at set up. It worked great in 2021.

 

Get someone else to start…

[notin]

Since the departure of Mookie,

Xander 12 WAR

Devers 9.9 WAR

 

You tell me who's the better player

 

Xander was ages 28-30.

 

Devers was 23-25.

 

Which one will better over the next decade?

[Jasonbay44]

Since the departure of Mookie,

Xander 12 WAR

Devers 9.9 WAR

 

You tell me who's the better player

 

That doesn’t mean Xander is the more valuable player. Look at the ages of both guys and the trajectory both are on/have been on.