Devers next deal

[notin]

Interesting that the highest paid Sox players of the last decade don't make the top 4 list.

 

$217M Price

$154M AGon

$145M Sale

$142M Crawford (started right before the last decade)

$140M Story

$110M JD

 

None were/are homegrown, and only Sale was a real extension. (Technically, AGon was, too.)

 

And they were all pretty bad after signing. The best of that bunch might have been JD, and then probably Price. Sale has two years left, which is actually enough time to catch up ( and is more of a statement about Price). And Story is TBD…

[moonslav59]

And they were all pretty bad after signing. The best of that bunch might have been JD, and then probably Price. Sale has two years left, which is actually enough time to catch up ( and is more of a statement about Price). And Story is TBD…

 

Most were older than the ones we lost, but Lester was not, and he did better than any of these guys. Betts almost certainly will. Bogey is TBD and Devers hasn't flown the coup, just yet.

 

Who are the top 4 homegrown players over the last 2 decades by size of their contract extensions?

[notin]

Most were older than the ones we lost, but Lester was not, and he did better than any of these guys. Betts almost certainly will. Bogey is TBD and Devers hasn't flown the coup, just yet.

 

Who are the top 4 homegrown players over the last 2 decades by size of their contract extensions?

 

Numero uno is probably Dustin Pedroia with 8 years $110mill.

 

Looks like dirt but I also recall people insisting he retire early and surrender his salary rather than sit out injured…

[redsoxrules]

Pedroia got a freak injury thanks to Machado. If that didn't happen that contract would have been worth it right to the end

[moonslav59]

Numero uno is probably Dustin Pedroia with 8 years $110mill.

 

Looks like dirt but I also recall people insisting he retire early and surrender his salary rather than sit out injured…

 

I recall people suggesting he retire- not insisting. The league should have forced him to retire and have Machado pay his remaining salary.

[moonslav59]

Pedroia got a freak injury thanks to Machado. If that didn't happen that contract would have been worth it right to the end

 

Yes, I think Pedey's was the most, unless Bogey did not opt out. This is what I came up with over the last 10-12 years, only:

 

Unofficial...

 

$120/6 Bogey (opt out after $60M/3)

$110/8 Pedey

$41M/4 Youk

$41M/6 Pedey ('09-'14)

$30M/4 Buchholz

$30M/5 Lester

 

Non Homegrown extensions...

$154/7 AGon

$145/5 Sale

$83M/4 Porcello

$68M/4 Beckett

$68M/4 Nate

$52M/4 Papi

 

 

[enlightened]

There is no way the Sox retain him - either now or next year. Given that, the only logical move is to trade him now. That makes me sad.

 

(However, I'm not sure ownership or the FO have the brains to figure that out or the balls to do it so we will probably just let him walk next year .... that makes me sadder)

Edited December 10, 2022 by enlightened

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Trading Devers doesn't make sense, because no one will give up anything good for him unless they legitimately think they can sign him; that narrows it down to a small handful of clubs that like spending. Even then, the return for one year of Raffy won't be anything special -- for example, one-for-one trade proposals on BTV in swaps for Sean Murphy or Brian Reynolds don't even come close to being acceptable.

 

What a debacle for the front office. New England is really pissed, and ownership knows it needs to just pay Devers -- but we don't know if he'll even sign now, for any price after the past week of free agent riches.

 

If he won't, the best remaining option has to be to pay Correa -- the middle-of-the-order righty power bat and Platinum Glove defender in his prime that won't cost any draft picks. Swanson as a consolation prize won't cut it: good player, but older than Carlos with only 14.5 career WAR. Correa is the star, with 39.5 career WAR and 18 postseason home runs. He's also the best fit for Fenway and with Cora.

[oldtimer]

Trading Devers doesn't make sense, because no one will give up anything good for him unless they legitimately think they can sign him; that narrows it down to a small handful of clubs that like spending. Even then, the return for one year of Raffy won't be anything special -- for example, one-for-one trade proposals on BTV in swaps for Sean Murphy or Brian Reynolds don't even come close to being acceptable.

 

What a debacle for the front office. New England is really pissed, and ownership knows it needs to just pay Devers -- but we don't know if he'll even sign now, for any price after the past week of free agent riches.

 

If he won't, the best remaining option has to be to pay Correa -- the middle-of-the-order righty power bat and Platinum Glove defender in his prime that won't cost any draft picks. Swanson as a consolation prize won't cut it: good player, but older than Carlos with only 14.5 career WAR. Correa is the star, with 39.5 career WAR and 18 postseason home runs. He's also the best fit for Fenway and with Cora.

 

Signing Correa for a year or two at $35 mil would use almost all of our resources needed for pitching. No doubt his bat and glove would help but it's not the answer if we are truly looking to make this team consistently competitive.

[Hugh2]

Signing Correa for a year or two at $35 mil would use almost all of our resources needed for pitching. No doubt his bat and glove would help but it's not the answer if we are truly looking to make this team consistently competitive.

 

Not that Henry wants too, but they could easily sign Correa and sign a pitcher and resign Raffy, and be in a position to STILL reset the luxury tax next year.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Not that Henry wants too, but they could easily sign Correa and sign a pitcher and resign Raffy, and be in a position to STILL reset the luxury tax next year.

 

Even Xander said in SD the Red Sox could sign Raffy if they want to...

 

And I disagree that signing Correa wouldn't be a good step for the future. Star players in their prime form the core that teams build sustained contenders around.

 

You don't build around mediocre bargain bin guys -- they're the scaffolding you take down, once the renovations are complete.

[notin]

Even Xander said in SD the Red Sox could sign Raffy if they want to...

 

And I disagree that signing Correa wouldn't be a good step for the future. Star players in their prime form the core that teams build sustained contenders around.

 

You don't build around mediocre bargain bin guys -- they're the scaffolding you take down, once the renovations are complete.

 

Correa might have crazy demands, but then that would make this the second year in a row teams have just ignored him on the market. And now that he’s seeing the offers Turner and Bogaerts got after seeing what Seager got last year. Think at any point he starts taking it personally?

[moonslav59]

There is no way the Sox retain him - either now or next year. Given that, the only logical move is to trade him now. That makes me sad.

 

(However, I'm not sure ownership or the FO have the brains to figure that out or the balls to do it so we will probably just let him walk next year .... that makes me sadder)

 

I don't understand why they think fans are so dumb that they'd rather get one more year out of Devers and nothing afterwards.

 

I can understand, if we are looking at a good chance at WS win AND we have some young kids coming up, one of which can play 3B, but that is not the case, here, right now.

[moonslav59]

Trading Devers doesn't make sense, because no one will give up anything good for him unless they legitimately think they can sign him; that narrows it down to a small handful of clubs that like spending. Even then, the return for one year of Raffy won't be anything special -- for example, one-for-one trade proposals on BTV in swaps for Sean Murphy or Brian Reynolds don't even come close to being acceptable.

 

What a debacle for the front office. New England is really pissed, and ownership knows it needs to just pay Devers -- but we don't know if he'll even sign now, for any price after the past week of free agent riches.

 

If he won't, the best remaining option has to be to pay Correa -- the middle-of-the-order righty power bat and Platinum Glove defender in his prime that won't cost any draft picks. Swanson as a consolation prize won't cut it: good player, but older than Carlos with only 14.5 career WAR. Correa is the star, with 39.5 career WAR and 18 postseason home runs. He's also the best fit for Fenway and with Cora.

 

I agree on Correa, but we can get something very good for one year of Devers. We could also allow a team a window to negotiate an extension. I'm thinking the Mets, Padres or Dodger could get that done- maybe even Philly and SF or the Rangers.

[moonslav59]

Not that Henry wants too, but they could easily sign Correa and sign a pitcher and resign Raffy, and be in a position to STILL reset the luxury tax next year.

 

We'd be very tight. The pitcher we sign would have to be a one year deal.

 

We'd have to replace Kike with Rafaela, and let Paxton and Brasier go- that's easy.

 

Who play RF in 2023 and 2024? Dugo? Abreu? Refsnyder?

 

We may have to pay Correa close to $40M.

 

We'd also have some arb raises, next year.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't understand why they think fans are so dumb that they'd rather get one more year out of Devers and nothing afterwards.

 

I can understand, if we are looking at a good chance at WS win AND we have some young kids coming up, one of which can play 3B, but that is not the case, here, right now.

 

You're right, 2023 is clearly lining up to suck, so trading Devers now makes sense.

 

Knowing this ownership they might do it on Christmas Eve.

[Hugh2]

We'd be very tight. The pitcher we sign would have to be a one year deal.

 

We'd have to replace Kike with Rafaela, and let Paxton and Brasier go- that's easy.

 

Who play RF in 2023 and 2024? Dugo? Abreu? Refsnyder?

 

We may have to pay Correa close to $40M.

 

We'd also have some arb raises, next year.

 

Look at the money next year. It's there. They could easily reset next year. They wouldn't have an amazing offseason BUT next years free agent class does not look very good at all and we will have less holes to fill. Literally Just kike in CF, the rest of the lineup is set.

[notin]

You're right, 2023 is clearly lining up to suck, so trading Devers now makes sense.

 

Knowing this ownership they might do it on Christmas Eve.

 

So they’re more Krampus than Santa?

[moonslav59]

Even Xander said in SD the Red Sox could sign Raffy if they want to...

 

And I disagree that signing Correa wouldn't be a good step for the future. Star players in their prime form the core that teams build sustained contenders around.

 

You don't build around mediocre bargain bin guys -- they're the scaffolding you take down, once the renovations are complete.

 

That's the thing about signing younger players like Devers and Correa to longer term deals. They help now and in the future, so if our true window in 2024-2026, Correa fits perfectly- Devers, too, but we also give the fans something to watch in 2023, and who knows, maybe we repeat 2021 with an even better ending in 2023.

 

Kind of off on a tangent here, but I often hear some posters mention that Bloom took over a championship type team after 2019, because theat team was not so different or far removed from the 2018 team. I ask, why can't they view the 2022 like the 2021 team in the same manner?

 

In most ways, on paper, the winter moved B loom made, improved the team of 2021 (No Richards, no 2021 Perez, No Andries, No Marwin and yes Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Refsnyder and Schreiber- okay, Diekman, too, but still better-- on paper.)

[Bellhorn04]

So they’re more Krampus than Santa?

 

Correct. Henry is Krampus now.

[moonslav59]

You're right, 2023 is clearly lining up to suck, so trading Devers now makes sense.

 

Knowing this ownership they might do it on Christmas Eve.

 

Nobody here, right now anyway, thinks this team can even sniff glory in 2023. They may think differently by opening day, depending on what else is added, but as of now, no.

 

As you know, I'm totally on the b ring back Devers bandwagon. I'm not sure anyone has said they'd pay him more or for longer than I have, so some may view me as the driver of the Devers Forevers Wagon. That being said, if we get just a comp pick for him, I'll be much more pissed than if we trade him, this winter or at the deadline. So pissed, and trus me on this, I'll be driving the bandwagon to oust the whole Sox management group.

 

I;m a Sox fan for life. I'm not sure it's possible for anyone to love the Sox more than I do, but I'll grant many here do as much. I plan on living at least a couple more decades. I'm 63, and my Dad is 95 and my Mom is 85. I want to see the Sox become a consistent winning team that wins rings every so often, and if it takes a couple off years here and there to get those rings (not that it has to,) I'm okay with that.

 

I'll be way more pissed getting a comp pick over trading Devers, but I'm still Mr. Devers Forevers!

 

[moonslav59]

Correct. Henry is Krampus now.

 

Counting the Kike extension, Krampus has spend over $50M AAV, so far, on Christmas presents to Sox fans.

 

The Bogey lump of coal sucked, and got some of the other presents dirty, but he still has some more presents to buy.

 

My optimism is slowly creeping back.

[moonslav59]

Look at the money next year. It's there. They could easily reset next year. They wouldn't have an amazing offseason BUT next years free agent class does not look very good at all and we will have less holes to fill. Literally Just kike in CF, the rest of the lineup is set.

 

I just looked. Kike, Barnes, Paxton and guys like Brasier can be let go.

 

Maybe that's $30M. Depending on what we pay the pitcher you mention and Correa, and how we handle RF, it will be very tight.

 

I do think, by 2024, we have enough upcoming prospects to fill in several need areas at min cost. It's doable. I want Correa. I'd even be willing to go less at SP'er to get him, but we could trade for a low cost SP'er, too.

 

If we sign Correa, as much as I hate to trade Mayer, we could. It might be worth holding onto him until next winter, when his trade value could significantly increase as he becomes ML ready and is coming off a great 2023 AAA season. If he does not have a great season, maybe waiting a year would hurt the return.

 

Is anyone saying we are "in on Correa?"

 

I guess Bloom has kept pretty stealth on his recent signings. I heard very little about any Sox interest in Yoshida, Jansen or Martin, until boom, they are signed. A few little mentions but nothing close to "heavy talking."

[notin]

I just looked. Kike, Barnes, Paxton and guys like Brasier can be let go.

 

Maybe that's $30M. Depending on what we pay the pitcher you mention and Correa, and how we handle RF, it will be very tight.

 

I do think, by 2024, we have enough upcoming prospects to fill in several need areas at min cost. It's doable. I want Correa. I'd even be willing to go less at SP'er to get him, but we could trade for a low cost SP'er, too.

 

If we sign Correa, as much as I hate to trade Mayer, we could. It might be worth holding onto him until next winter, when his trade value could significantly increase as he becomes ML ready and is coming off a great 2023 AAA season. If he does not have a great season, maybe waiting a year would hurt the return.

 

Is anyone saying we are "in on Correa?"

 

I guess Bloom has kept pretty stealth on his recent signings. I heard very little about any Sox interest in Yoshida, Jansen or Martin, until boom, they are signed. A few little mentions but nothing close to "heavy talking."

 

I don’t think any of us think the Sox are in on Correa. But if they go sign him, 5Gold gets nominated for the long term prediction award, calling that one 3 years ago…

[Bellhorn04]

Counting the Kike extension, Krampus has spend over $50M AAV, so far, on Christmas presents to Sox fans.

 

The Bogey lump of coal sucked, and got some of the other presents dirty, but he still has some more presents to buy.

 

My optimism is slowly creeping back.

 

That's commendable, seriously. If they sign an extension with Devers, mine might come back. But it's really going to be the last straw if they don't.

[notin]

That's commendable, seriously. If they sign an extension with Devers, mine might come back. But it's really going to be the last straw if they don't.

 

If they don’t, Cubs fan?

 

We have Jed Hoyer out here. It’s like the Good Old Days..

[moonslav59]

I don’t think any of us think the Sox are in on Correa. But if they go sign him, 5Gold gets nominated for the long term prediction award, calling that one 3 years ago…

 

I still think the odds are under 1% we sign CC, but it was under a half a percent a couple days ago.

[moonslav59]

That's commendable, seriously. If they sign an extension with Devers, mine might come back. But it's really going to be the last straw if they don't.

 

If they trade Devers for a pretty good haul and sign Correa and Senga, you are still a goner?

 

Many look back at the Betts trade as a total disaster, but at the time, Verdugo was looking very good and had 5 years of control to one of Betts, and Downs was pretty highly rated prospects. Wong was a flyer.

 

Just because Dugo's improvement stalled, and Downs has pretty much sucked, on offense, anyway, doesn't mean the plan.idea sucked, or that the next trade won't work out much better.

 

Beating a dead horse again, but won't Dugo's 5 years, at least match Bett's one year in value?

[Bellhorn04]

I still think the odds are under 1% we sign CC, but it was under a half a percent a couple days ago.

 

It was zero and it's still zero.

[Bellhorn04]

Beating a dead horse again, but won't Dugo's 5 years, at least match Bett's one year in value?

 

I think Bloom did OK on the trade, but that's not the point.

 

Betts has an AAV of $29 mill (they finally adjusted for the deferred money), and he had an fWAR of 6.6 this year.

 

I think the Dodgers are more than happy with the swap of Dugo for Betts.