Red Sox Sign Masataka Yoshida

[moonslav59]

Going to Gray on Friday.

 

That's "the corner" of the whole state of Maine, as several major roads cross there.

[mvp 78]

In that alignment, does maybe Duran get traded for a SP?

 

I wouldn't trade Duran at this point. He's not off the table, but he'd have to bring back a pretty substantial piece considering the amount of control the team has (ARB 3 is 2028).

[mvp 78]

That's "the corner" of the whole state of Maine, as several major roads cross there.

 

The one with the stop light and the other with the flashing yellow?

[moonslav59]

Wouldn’t you think Bloom would see it for himself?

 

He has to know this has been a weak area since 2018. For some reason, he has chosen to fill the many other areas of need, first.

 

To me, that makes sense in terms of this being a 5 year plan. Why sign a high priced pitcher year 1 or 2, or even 3, if you are building up for year 5? All the one year deals support the idea that the plan was never to "win now."

 

This is just my opinion, and the other side has some good points, too.

 

[moonslav59]

The one with the stop light and the other with the flashing yellow?

 

Actually, it has 3 lights. (Two about 50 feet from each other.)

[mvp 78]

Watching clips of yesterday's three Abreu HRs: swing has definite lift, all were total bombs... but every flag on the high poles beyond the bleachers was blowing straight out. WOO!

 

I'm less concerned about his power potential, but more about his patience at the plate (380 OBP, 15% BB) and his overall defense (9 assists and can play all 3 positions, 55 grade speed).

[Hugh2]

Teoscar isn't a good fit for the Red Sox. He generally isn't a good RFer and k's at 30%. I'd rather just bring up Abreu and get 1 fWAR that way than spend $14M.

 

Hernandez has a career OPS almost 40 points higher than Verdugo despite the down season. I think you get something for Verdugo and wager Teoscar would sign a one-year deal to build some value back after a down year.

 

A LA Adrian Beltre.

 

I think the drop-off in defense is there but marginal, and your defense overall gets much better with Duran in left over Yoshida and Rafaeal in CF. This permutation also adds a starter to your rotation making for a stronger team.

[mvp 78]

Hernandez has a career OPS almost 40 points higher than Verdugo despite the down season. I think you get something for Verdugo and wager Teoscar would sign a one-year deal to build some value back after a down year.

 

A LA Adrian Beltre.

 

I think the drop-off in defense is there but marginal, and your defense overall gets much better with Duran in left over Yoshida and Rafaeal in CF. This permutation also adds a starter to your rotation making for a stronger team.

 

Teoscar career OBP: 315

Verdugo career OBP: 341

 

Are you thinking of someone else?

[notin]

I wouldn't trade Duran at this point. He's not off the table, but he'd have to bring back a pretty substantial piece considering the amount of control the team has (ARB 3 is 2028).

 

The Sox are very likely to move at least one OF this off-season. Verdugo is probably most likely, especially since they haven’t extended him given his overt desire. Duran is probably second most likely, and a big part of it is the very reasons you cite…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Why sign a high priced pitcher year 1 or 2, or even 3, if you are building up for year 5?

 

 

Because even rebuilds start with starters. An ace changes the losing culture and makes everyone around him better -- the team knows it has a better chance to win every time the rotation turns over, defense and offense focus, the bullpen usually gets a rest, plus other starters want to follow his lead, learn new pitches/grips/batter weaknesses, and other winners want to join the staff -- even good position players want to come play for a club that fills the stands with fans who come to cheer the next Looie or Pedro...

[Hugh2]

The Sox are very likely to move at least one OF this off-season. Verdugo is probably most likely, especially since they haven’t extended him given his overt desire. Duran is probably second most likely, and a big part of it is the very reasons you cite…

 

I'm sorry, it's 30 points higher. And no.

 

I'm talking about the Hernandez who has a career OPS of .799 vs. Verdugos .769

[moonslav59]

Because even rebuilds start with starters. An ace changes the losing culture and makes everyone around him better -- the team knows it has a better chance to win every time the rotation turns over, defense and offense focus, the bullpen usually gets a rest, plus other starters want to follow his lead, learn new pitches/grips/batter weaknesses, and other winners want to join the staff -- even good position players want to come play for a club that fills the stands with fans who come to cheer the next Looie or Pedro...

 

I'm always for adding pitchers, and from the top- not 5th starter types. I was just trying to give a justification for their choice. It does make some sense, to me. The longer term positional players will still have value in year 5 (Story, Yoshida...)

[moonslav59]

I'm sorry, it's 30 points higher. And no.

 

I'm talking about the Hernandez who has a career OPS of .799 vs. Verdugos .769

 

Who is "the Hernandez?"

[Hugh2]

Who is "the Hernandez?"

 

Teoscar Hernandez, at first glance he'd be a small downgrade from Verdugo, but marginally, slightly lower defense and OBP, a lot more power and he'd balance the lineup better from the right side.

 

I like this scenario under the even that Verdugo can not be extended to something reasonable so perhaps you trade him with a prospect for a year of control for a guy like Clevinger, and Hernandez would be willing to take a 1 year deal to build his value back up after a down season. Then you go out and sign a Snell/Yama/Urias type to lead the rotation.

[moonslav59]

Teoscar Hernandez, at first glance he'd be a small downgrade from Verdugo, but marginally, slightly lower defense and OBP, a lot more power and he'd balance the lineup better from the right side.

 

I like this scenario under the even that Verdugo can not be extended to something reasonable so perhaps you trade him with a prospect for a year of control for a guy like Clevinger, and Hernandez would be willing to take a 1 year deal to build his value back up after a down season. Then you go out and sign a Snell/Yama/Urias type to lead the rotation.

 

I'd be okay with that, but I'd prefer superior RF D, if possible.

[mvp 78]

I'm sorry, it's 30 points higher. And no.

 

I'm talking about the Hernandez who has a career OPS of .799 vs. Verdugos .769

 

Sorry, OPS. I misread it as OBP I guess. Yes, Verdugo has s*** for SLG. He's never been able to hit for power.

 

The problem is that Teoscar is now 30 and should probably have more "down years" going forward. His arm strength is down from last year. He's going to start to get slower. IDK, he's not a profile I see this FO going for. They brought in Turner and Masataka last year, two guys with patient approaches. Teoscar is the opposite of that and is similar to Hunter Renfroe, a guy the FO moved on from.

[Hugh2]

Sorry, OPS. I misread it as OBP I guess. Yes, Verdugo has s*** for SLG. He's never been able to hit for power.

 

The problem is that Teoscar is now 30 and should probably have more "down years" going forward. His arm strength is down from last year. He's going to start to get slower. IDK, he's not a profile I see this FO going for. They brought in Turner and Masataka last year, two guys with patient approaches. Teoscar is the opposite of that and is similar to Hunter Renfroe, a guy the FO moved on from.

 

Read my last approach to Moon, I prefer 1 year of Hernandez to 1 year of Verdugo. The dude might want to cash in on his only chance of a payday if he can have a bounce-back season.

 

Otherwise if the price is reasonable I'd rather extend Verdugo. I also like the ideal of adding pitching with Dugo and banking on breaking even with Teoscar for a year.

[moonslav59]

Read my last approach to Moon, I prefer 1 year of Hernandez to 1 year of Verdugo. The dude might want to cash in on his only chance of a payday if he can have a bounce-back season.

 

Otherwise if the price is reasonable I'd rather extend Verdugo. I also like the ideal of adding pitching with Dugo and banking on breaking even with Teoscar for a year.

 

I would not extend Dugo.

 

He's not a very good defensive RF'er.

He's not improving on O.

His attitude seems to be an issue.

 

I'd trade him plus a prospect or two for a decent SP'er, and I'd be fine going into 2024 with this OF:

 

LF: Yoshida (DH?)/Duran/Refsnyder

CF: Rafaela/Duran

RF: Abreu/Rafaela/Refsnyder

 

(Add some ML depth in the OF, like Tapia.)

[Hugh2]

I would not extend Dugo.

 

He's not a very good defensive RF'er.

He's not improving on O.

His attitude seems to be an issue.

 

I'd trade him plus a prospect or two for a decent SP'er, and I'd be fine going into 2024 with this OF:

 

LF: Yoshida (DH?)/Duran/Refsnyder

CF: Rafaela/Duran

RF: Abreu/Rafaela/Refsnyder

 

(Add some ML depth in the OF, like Tapia.)

 

You have to add another outfielder to that mix, There are way too many unproven guys in that mix. If I'm not adding someone like Hernandez, I'm not trading Verdugo.

[Dipre]

Read my last approach to Moon, I prefer 1 year of Hernandez to 1 year of Verdugo. The dude might want to cash in on his only chance of a payday if he can have a bounce-back season.

 

Otherwise if the price is reasonable I'd rather extend Verdugo. I also like the ideal of adding pitching with Dugo and banking on breaking even with Teoscar for a year.

 

Sox are building a take-and-rake team. I doubt they'd bring in a free-swinger like Teoscar.

[Hugh2]

Sox are building a take-and-rake team. I doubt they'd bring in a free-swinger like Teoscar.

 

You're probably right, but that means Verdugo leaves for a QO (which I'm actually fine with) and Yoshida is still killing your defense in LF instead of maximizing his value as a DH.

[mvp 78]

You're probably right, but that means Verdugo leaves for a QO (which I'm actually fine with) and Yoshida is still killing your defense in LF instead of maximizing his value as a DH.

 

Sox have another year of control before they would have to give him the QO?

[moonslav59]

You have to add another outfielder to that mix, There are way too many unproven guys in that mix. If I'm not adding someone like Hernandez, I'm not trading Verdugo.

 

Depth added might be a returning Duvall type.

 

If Turner bolts and Yoshida is seen as the DH and 5th OF'er, yes on adding an OF'er or keeping Dugo.

[moonslav59]

Sox have another year of control before they would have to give him the QO?

 

He'll have to have a very good 2024 to get a QO.

[mvp 78]

He'll have to have a very good 2024 to get a QO.

 

20M for a pitcher makes sense. For Verdugo? Maybe? That's 2.5 fWAR which is about what he does every year.

 

I think they'd be better off moving on from him and trying to package him in a trade for a middle rotation starter.

[Hugh2]

Sox have another year of control before they would have to give him the QO?

 

Yes, if my scenario of starting Hernandez over Verdugo in RF for 2024 doesn't materialize I'd be ok with Alex out there next year and offering the QO after next season.

[moonslav59]

20M for a pitcher makes sense. For Verdugo? Maybe? That's 2.5 fWAR which is about what he does every year.

 

I think they'd be better off moving on from him and trying to package him in a trade for a middle rotation starter.

 

We agree, which makes me think I need to re-evaluate my position. LOL!

[Hugh2]

Depth added might be a returning Duvall type.

 

If Turner bolts and Yoshida is seen as the DH and 5th OF'er, yes on adding an OF'er or keeping Dugo.

 

eh, but I'd rather get a guy like Hernandez who may be willing to take a 1 year deal and deal Verdugo for starting pitching and allow someone like Abreu and Refsnyder to provide that depth.

 

Add pitching,

a more balanced L/R lineup.

Better overall outfield defense.

 

A resurgent Hernandez might have a better year than Verdugo, the back or your rotation gets solidified, and you still might be able to offer a guy like Hernandez a QO anyways.

Edited August 14, 2023 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[Hugh2]

20M for a pitcher makes sense. For Verdugo? Maybe? That's 2.5 fWAR which is about what he does every year.

 

I think they'd be better off moving on from him and trying to package him in a trade for a middle rotation starter.

 

There's also a difference between paying a guy 20 million for one year vs. dishing out a long term contract. Verdugo likely declines, if he doesn't great, the outfield market is very thin anyways and in a year they are built to blow past the tax line a 1 year bridge is fine to pave the way for a guy like Roman Anthony.

 

It just keeps on making sense.

 

come to my side.....come to the dark side.

[moonslav59]

eh, but I'd rather get a guy like Hernandez who may be willing to take a 1 year deal and deal Verdugo for starting pitching and allow someone like Abreu and Refsnyder to provide that depth.

 

Add pitching,

a more balanced L/R lineup.

Better overall outfield defense.

 

A resurgent Hernandez might have a better year than Verdugo, the back or your rotation gets solidified, and you still might be able to offer a guy like Hernandez a QO anyways.

 

I'm thinking THern will look for the biggest and longest payday he can get. He won't be younger, in 2025.