Curt Schilling Is a Hall of Famer

[mvp 78]

I hate when people try to defend Perry over Bonds by claiming his cheating was “different.”

 

Yea, it was different. For example, what Perry did was actually against the rules…

 

They legit glorified Perry back in the 80's for cheating, but what these guys did is a bridge to far? I wasn't around for Perry's heyday, but I know that Bonds was truly one of the all time greats. Yeah, I'd rather go to a museum that had Bonds, Manny, Clemens and ARod than one that has Gaylord Perry, Jim Bottomley, Chick Hafey and Harold Baines.

[notin]

NL

They legit glorified Perry back in the 80's for cheating, but what these guys did is a bridge to far? I wasn't around for Perry's heyday, but I know that Bonds was truly one of the all time greats. Yeah, I'd rather go to a museum that had Bonds, Manny, Clemens and ARod than one that has Gaylord Perry, Jim Bottomley, Chick Hafey and Harold Baines.

 

And Perry openly defied the rules. The title of his autobiography was “The Spitter and Me.” He actually gave his method of cheating top billing in his own autobiography!!

[mvp 78]

NL

 

And Perry openly defied the rules. The title of his autobiography was “The Spitter and Me.” He actually gave his method of cheating top billing in his own autobiography!!

 

It's ********. Anyone that is ok with Perry being in the HOF and laughs off all the TWIB's yuck yucking about Perry back in the day can't complain about Manny or ARod or Bonds doing damage to the sanctity of the game with a straight face.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's ********. Anyone that is ok with Perry being in the HOF and laughs off all the TWIB's yuck yucking about Perry back in the day can't complain about Manny or ARod or Bonds doing damage to the sanctity of the game with a straight face.

 

All of it has always been part of the game: spitters, sign-stealing, stimulants (nicotine, caffeine, amphetamines, groupies, and all other PEDs)...

 

Even the honorable concept of a Hall of Famer has always been fraught with hypocrisy, with its undefined character clause...

 

The only player ever qualified for certain under such guidelines is Yogi Berra -- even though his cartoon looks more like a grizzly, and wears a green tie.

[mvp 78]

All of it has always been part of the game: spitters, sign-stealing, stimulants (nicotine, caffeine, amphetamines, groupies, and all other PEDs)...

 

Even the honorable concept of a Hall of Famer has always been fraught with hypocrisy, with its undefined character clause...

 

The only player ever qualified for certain under such guidelines is Yogi Berra -- even though his cartoon looks more like a grizzly, and wears a green tie.

 

Which is why I'm fine with putting ARod et al on my hypothetical ballot. The only "worthy" guy I'd exclude would be Palmeiro as he lied to Congress about using (notably pointed his finger), got caught soon after and then stuffed earplugs in his ears to avoid jeering from fans. Even if Vizquel wasn't a scumbag, I think he still wasn't a good enough ballplayer to get in.

 

The MLB I grew up with included the San Diego Chicken, the Baseball Bunch, Morganna and guys getting juiced to the gills. Let baseball be fun.

[Bellhorn04]

I cannot freaking believe Jethro Tull isn't in yet.

[notin]

Which is why I'm fine with putting ARod et al on my hypothetical ballot. The only "worthy" guy I'd exclude would be Palmeiro as he lied to Congress about using (notably pointed his finger), got caught soon after and then stuffed earplugs in his ears to avoid jeering from fans. Even if Vizquel wasn't a scumbag, I think he still wasn't a good enough ballplayer to get in.

 

The MLB I grew up with included the San Diego Chicken, the Baseball Bunch, Morganna and guys getting juiced to the gills. Let baseball be fun.

 

Was that whole thing really a matter for a Congressional hearing?

[mvp 78]

I cannot freaking believe Jethro Tull isn't in yet.

 

They beat Metallica that one year!

[mvp 78]

Was that whole thing really a matter for a Congressional hearing?

 

Should it have been? Hell no! That's part in parcel with these people that are trying to keep Bonds and Clemens out of the Hall of Fame for no good reason.

[Bellhorn04]

Bonds and Clemens arguably have two strikes against them, because they're not the most likable guys. Also, pretty sure Clemens lied his ass off before Congress too.

[moonslav59]

Should it have been? Hell no! That's part in parcel with these people that are trying to keep Bonds and Clemens out of the Hall of Fame for no good reason.

 

One can argue that just because other cheaters are in the HOF, it doesn't mean it's okay.

 

I agree, that players who did steroids should be allowed in, I can understand why people vote against them. Maybe some voted against Perry, too- just not enough.

 

I can understand robbing these guys of first ballot or later entry, but if they never get in, it would be a shame.

[notin]

I cannot freaking believe Jethro Tull isn't in yet.

 

Greatest omission in Hall of Fame history.

 

There are rappers and country singers getting inducted into the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of Fame over Tull. That’s like Tom Brady getting into Cooperstown ahead of Todd Helton…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Over half a century later still living in the past. What else is there to go by?

[mvp 78]

Greatest omission in Hall of Fame history.

 

There are rappers and country singers getting inducted into the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of Fame over Tull. That’s like Tom Brady getting into Cooperstown ahead of Todd Helton…

 

My ballot would be:

Devo

Iron Maiden

Ozzy Osbourne

Rage Against the Machine

Slayer

The Specials

Weird Al Yankovic

[mvp 78]

Greatest omission in Hall of Fame history.

 

There are rappers and country singers getting inducted into the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of Fame over Tull. That’s like Tom Brady getting into Cooperstown ahead of Todd Helton…

 

The nomination process for that place is more convoluted than any other Hall, including the WWE Hall.

[jad]

Ha ha! I'm trying to imagine giving any baseball fan at any level the task of naming the best players in the last 30 or 40 years. You know, to start: Bonds, Pete Rose, Clemens, A-rod, Manny ... And how many years of struggle and research they would have to do before coming up with the name Scot Rolen. (or is it Fred Rollins?)

[notin]

Ha ha! I'm trying to imagine giving any baseball fan at any level the task of naming the best players in the last 30 or 40 years. You know, to start: Bonds, Pete Rose, Clemens, A-rod, Manny ... And how many years of struggle and research they would have to do before coming up with the name Scot Rolen. (or is it Fred Rollins?)

 

You can do that with any era.

 

When you think of the ‘27 Yankees aka Murderer’s Row and the Hall of Famers, do you think of Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Tony Lazzeri? Or do you think of Earle Combs and Herb Pennock?

[dgalehouse]

The Hall of Fame is a great honor for the players and a great thing for their families. The voters should not be so restrictive. Leaving out great players like Bonds, Clemens, Rose etc. is vindictive and dumb. And Billy Wagner has 422 saves and a career 2.31 ERA. By what biased or convoluted system is that not Cooperstown worthy? These writers need a good smackdown.

[moonslav59]

No matter what you do, someone will complain. Add 500 more players to the HOF, and people will complain about #501 and 502.

[jad]

Quote Originally Posted by jad View Post

Ha ha! I'm trying to imagine giving any baseball fan at any level the task of naming the best players in the last 30 or 40 years. You know, to start: Bonds, Pete Rose, Clemens, A-rod, Manny ... And how many years of struggle and research they would have to do before coming up with the name Scot Rolen. (or is it Fred Rollins?)

You can do that with any era.

 

[When you think of the ‘27 Yankees aka Murderer’s Row and the Hall of Famers, do you think of Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Tony Lazzeri? Or do you think of Earle Combs and Herb Pennock?]

 

I think you mis-read or didn't read my post. Last time I looked, Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig were in the HOF, were they not?

[moonslav59]

Quote Originally Posted by jad View Post

Ha ha! I'm trying to imagine giving any baseball fan at any level the task of naming the best players in the last 30 or 40 years. You know, to start: Bonds, Pete Rose, Clemens, A-rod, Manny ... And how many years of struggle and research they would have to do before coming up with the name Scot Rolen. (or is it Fred Rollins?)

You can do that with any era.

 

[When you think of the ‘27 Yankees aka Murderer’s Row and the Hall of Famers, do you think of Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Tony Lazzeri? Or do you think of Earle Combs and Herb Pennock?]

 

I think you mis-read or didn't read my post. Last time I looked, Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig were in the HOF, were they not?

 

So are Combs and Pennock. I think that was the point.

[notin]

So are Combs and Pennock. I think that was the point.

 

I’m hindsight, I think it s not so much the relative obscurity of Rolen as it is the omissions of the names he mentioned.

 

But even then, this same Hall of Fame houses Travis Jackson and Jimmy Collins, but doesn’t have Joe Jackson nor Eddie Cicotte…

[moonslav59]

I’m hindsight, I think it s not so much the relative obscurity of Rolen as it is the omissions of the names he mentioned.

 

But even then, this same Hall of Fame houses Travis Jackson and Jimmy Collins, but doesn’t have Joe Jackson nor Eddie Cicotte…

 

Personally, I think there are too many- not too few.

[Old Red]

There should be 1 vote to get into the HOF. Either you’re good enough, or you’re not. Rolen got something like 10% his first go around, so how did he get better? How many votes did it take for Jim Rice to get in? The intention of the HOF was the very best of the very best of the very best.

[Bellhorn04]

There should be 1 vote to get into the HOF. Either you’re good enough, or you’re not. Rolen got something like 10% his first go around, so how did he get better? How many votes did it take for Jim Rice to get in? The intention of the HOF was the very best of the very best of the very best.

 

But even "the very best of the very best of the very best" is subject to interpretation. Should there only be 20-30 guys in it?

 

If you leave his politics out of it, Schilling is a great example of a borderline case.

[Bellhorn04]

The Hall of Fame is a great honor for the players and a great thing for their families. The voters should not be so restrictive. Leaving out great players like Bonds, Clemens, Rose etc. is vindictive and dumb. And Billy Wagner has 422 saves and a career 2.31 ERA. By what biased or convoluted system is that not Cooperstown worthy? These writers need a good smackdown.

 

I agree Wagner should be in. His numbers are about as pristine as you could ask for.

[moonslav59]

There should be 1 vote to get into the HOF. Either you’re good enough, or you’re not. Rolen got something like 10% his first go around, so how did he get better? How many votes did it take for Jim Rice to get in? The intention of the HOF was the very best of the very best of the very best.

 

It's turned into how many votes it takes to show who is better than first or second ballot entries.

[notin]

I agree Wagner should be in. His numbers are about as pristine as you could ask for.

 

Not to mention he actually did all of it with his weak arm…

[Bellhorn04]

not to mention he actually did all of it with his weak arm…

 

lol

[Bellhorn04]

Of course, Red Sox fans will remember that time Wagner didn't quite get the job done against the Halos, am I right?