2023 Free Agents

[notin]

I edited out the undesirables.

 

So you’re not for bringing back Chavis?

[notin]

Even if Eovaldi makes all his remaining starts and Devers hits like he did pre-ASB, the team misses the postseason.

 

Likely, but not necessarily definite…

[moonslav59]

The Crapshoot Factor has been MASSIVE the last 2 postseasons.

 

The 2022 Phillies winning the pennant with a Pythagorean 87 wins instead of the Dodgers with a Pythagorean 116 wins was one of the all-time crapshoot results.

 

You're a Crapshoot Denier.

 

Yes, and the best team in MLB won in 2022.

 

2021 was a feather in the crapshooters caps.

 

BTW, do you really want to be known as a crapshooter club member?

 

Now, we call them liars for being so preposterously wrong, that they must have known all along we'd suck and intentionally told mistruths.

Edited December 28, 2022 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Ownership keeps on saying their intent is trying to compete for the playoffs. It just hangs Bloom out to dry if the intent is really something else. Maybe internally, he has their full support and he is strong enough to deal with the target on his back?

 

I think they really felt we could compete for a playoff slot in 2021 and 2022. Most here, agreed in March '21 and '22- maybe more so in '22.

[mvp 78]

So you’re not for bringing back Chavis?

 

MiLB contract and he can start in WOO.

[mvp 78]

Likely, but not necessarily definite…

 

Well, likely is the important word then. If it's likely than you gotta get under the cap.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, and the best team in MLB won in 2022.

 

The Dodgers' 2022 Pythagorean record was 10 games better than the Astros'.

 

What empirical data says the Astros were better?

[mvp 78]

The Dodgers' 2022 Pythagorean record was 10 games better than the Astros'.

 

What empirical data says the Astros were better?

 

#1 team pitching fWAR.

#1 team starting pitching fWAR.

[moonslav59]

The Dodgers' 2022 Pythagorean record was 10 games better than the Astros'.

 

What empirical data says the Astros were better?

 

Better than the crapshooter Phillies.

 

I never said upsets don't happen, but by and large, a top 3-4 team wins way more than the bottom 3-4 teams that make the playoffs. It's not even close. Win% or whatever.

 

[Bellhorn04]

Better than the crapshooter Phillies.

 

I never said upsets don't happen, but by and large, a top 3-4 team wins way more than the bottom 3-4 teams that make the playoffs. It's not even close. Win% or whatever.

 

 

There's a Crapshoot Factor. It's not pure crapshoot and it's not zero crapshoot. Most people like to simplify things, which in this case is just wrong.

[moonslav59]

There's a Crapshoot Factor. It's not pure crapshoot and it's not zero crapshoot. Most people like to simplify things, which in this case is just wrong.

 

I know some longshots win, every now and again. Yes, there should always be some gray area, but to me, and I don't even think it's a close call, our chances of winning it all, the night before the deadline, were so slim, it was clearly worth getting something for JD plus 2 way better comp picks and the ability to reset a year or two later than standing pat. We actually got better in 2022 with the trades Bloom made (McGuire outplayed Vaz and Pham did better than Cordero/Duran,) but we still missed by a mile.

 

IMO, we should have traded JD, Nate, Wacha, Hill and Strahm and then asked Bogey, if he'd be okay with a trade to a contender, that would also strip the QO off his FA winter status.

 

We'd be much better off now, and that would have been clearly better than clinging to some miniscule chance at 2022 glory.

 

Be honest: we all knew that 2022 team was going nowhere by June or mid July at the latest.

 

We were 14 games back in June and 18 back in late July. Yes, not in the WC race, but too many teams were ahead of us to think we'd make the playoffs, and even if we did, nobody would have liked our chances in the 2022 playoffs. Do you think we could have magically turned into the '22 Phillies?

 

You call me "the magician?"

 

[moonslav59]

There's a Crapshoot Factor. It's not pure crapshoot and it's not zero crapshoot. Most people like to simplify things, which in this case is just wrong.

 

Okay, a slight crapshoot factor, but enough for me to join the "Crapshoot Club."

[Bellhorn04]

I know some longshots win, every now and again. Yes, there should always be some gray area, but to me, and I don't even think it's a close call, our chances of winning it all, the night before the deadline, were so slim, it was clearly worth getting something for JD plus 2 way better comp picks and the ability to reset a year or two later than standing pat. We actually got better in 2022 with the trades Bloom made (McGuire outplayed Vaz and Pham did better than Cordero/Duran,) but we still missed by a mile.

 

IMO, we should have traded JD, Nate, Wacha, Hill and Strahm and then asked Bogey, if he'd be okay with a trade to a contender, that would also strip the QO off his FA winter status.

 

We'd be much better off now, and that would have been clearly better than clinging to some miniscule chance at 2022 glory.

 

Be honest: we all knew that 2022 team was going nowhere by June or mid July at the latest.

 

We were 14 games back in June and 18 back in late July. Yes, not in the WC race, but too many teams were ahead of us to think we'd make the playoffs, and even if we did, nobody would have liked our chances in the 2022 playoffs. Do you think we could have magically turned into the '22 Phillies?

 

You call me "the magician?"

 

 

Simple facts:

 

The Phillies came very close to missing the playoffs in 2022. Made it to 6th game of WS.

 

The Red Sox came even closer to missing the playoffs in 2021. Made it to 6th game of ALCS.

[moonslav59]

Simple facts:

 

The Phillies came very close to missing the playoffs in 2022. Made it to 6th game of WS.

 

The Red Sox came even closer to missing the playoffs in 2021. Made it to 6th game of ALCS.

 

Yes, a slight crapshoot factor.

 

Tell me, honestly, how you felt, late July in 2021 vs late July 2022.

 

There are levels of crapshootness, and there was zero gut feelings for me in July 2022. The 2021 team seemed magical, even in July.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, a slight crapshoot factor.

 

Tell me, honestly, how you felt, late July in 2021 vs late July 2022.

 

There are levels of crapshootness, and there was zero gut feelings for me in July 2022. The 2021 team seemed magical, even in July.

 

I didn't think we had any chance last July, no. But I can understand why the Sox FO didn't want to bail when they were only 3 games out of a Wild Card spot and had some guys coming back.

 

Sometimes things go from hopeless to hopeful in a hurry...and vice versa.

[moonslav59]

I didn't think we had any chance last July, no. But I can understand why the Sox FO didn't want to bail when they were only 3 games out of a Wild Card spot and had some guys coming back.

 

Sometimes things go from hopeless to hopeful in a hurry...and vice versa.

 

Thanks for that reply.

 

To me, the Sox failure to not have a fire sale or mini fire sale had more to do with upsetting the fanbase than thinking a 0.5% chance at winning vs a 0.01% was worth not doing it. I know my "crybaby fan" statement inflamed some emotions, but basically, I think projected fan reaction played the largest role in that choice.

 

Just the reset delay and the better 2 comp picks alone, made it worth trading JD and playing Hosmer or Dalbec at DH. Forget any returns we might have gotten for him.

 

[Bellhorn04]

Thanks for that reply.

 

To me, the Sox failure to not have a fire sale or mini fire sale had more to do with upsetting the fanbase than thinking a 0.5% chance at winning vs a 0.01% was worth not doing it. I know my "crybaby fan" statement inflamed some emotions, but basically, I think projected fan reaction played the largest role in that choice.

 

Well, I do think the fans are taken into account, and I think they should be taken into account. If the team isn't worth watching the last two months of the season that's not good for business.

 

The fans pay for it all. Higher revenues mean more money to pay players.

 

We all know the reason the playoffs keep expanding is to increase fan interest and revenue.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yes, a slight crapshoot factor.

 

Tell me, honestly, how you felt, late July in 2021 vs late July 2022.

 

 

... in those time frames, more frustrated in '21, because Bloom didn't add the necessary bullpen pieces that would've given the Sox the best chance to go all the way. There were a lot of good relievers on the block changing teams at the deadline, but Bloom's MO was to wait until they were all dealt to other contenders and pretenders, and then acquire Robles and Davis at the last minute.

 

... by the deadline in '22 it was too late to really give a crapshoot, because we all knew the time to make moves for reinforcements was at the very beginning of July, to replace injuries or upgrade holes before the looming killer schedule.

[moonslav59]

Well, I do think the fans are taken into account, and I think they should be taken into account. If the team isn't worth watching the last two months of the season that's not good for business.

 

The fans pay for it all. Higher revenues mean more money to pay players.

 

We all know the reason the playoffs keep expanding is to increase fan interest and revenue.

 

I've never said taking fan reaction into account is a bad thing, and it may very well be bad for business, but it can be a bad thing for the long term outlook of the team.

[moonslav59]

... in those time frames, more frustrated in '21, because Bloom didn't add the necessary bullpen pieces that would've given the Sox the best chance to go all the way. There were a lot of good relievers on the block changing teams at the deadline, but Bloom's MO was to wait until they were all dealt to other contenders and pretenders, and then acquire Robles and Davis at the last minute.

 

... by the deadline in '22 it was too late to really give a crapshoot, because we all knew the time to make moves for reinforcements was at the very beginning of July, to replace injuries or upgrade holes before the looming killer schedule.

 

I'm not sure making moves earlier in the season would have made enough of a difference, but you make a good point. Finding pen help early could have helped a lot.

 

Finding help at 1B was a bit more complicated, because Casas was ready in the wings, until he got hurt in June, I believe.

 

Giving up on JBJ in RF, earlier would have helped, but we probably needed a Schwarber type not a Pham.

 

Maybe adding Josh Bell, Pham and 2 decent RP'ers in June would have changed my feelings, but the whole 2022 season seemed like a major snakebite season, almost from day one.

 

No matter what we say about the what ifs before the deadline, it seemed clear to me trading at least JD outweighed any hopes we had to glory in the 2022 playoffs, and it wasn't even close at the deadline.

[Hugh2]

Now sign Andrus

[mvp 78]

Now sign Andrus

 

And then trade Verdugo and bring back someone that can actually play RF.

[notin]

And then trade Verdugo and bring back someone that can actually play RF.

 

Gallo was right there looking for a deal.

 

Maybe trade for Ramon Laureano?

 

How about Verdugo in LF, Kike in CF, Laureano in RF, Yoshida at DH, and Turner to the bench?

[Old Red]

Gallo was right there looking for a deal.

 

Maybe trade for Ramon Laureano?

 

How about Verdugo in LF, Kike in CF, Laureano in RF, Yoshida at DH, and Turner to the bench?

What a plan! Turner to the bench. BIG NO!

[Bellhorn04]

I've never said taking fan reaction into account is a bad thing, and it may very well be bad for business, but it can be a bad thing for the long term outlook of the team.

 

So can losing money.

 

If you're going to argue that Henry's spending might be affected by the $8 million buyout to JBJ, you can't ignore the effect of attendance and viewership.

 

If it wasn't for the fans, payrolls could have been a lot lower over the years and we might have fewer titles.

[notin]

What a plan! Turner to the bench. BIG NO!

 

You’d start him over Devers?

[mvp 78]

Gallo was right there looking for a deal.

 

Maybe trade for Ramon Laureano?

 

How about Verdugo in LF, Kike in CF, Laureano in RF, Yoshida at DH, and Turner to the bench?

 

There is enough going around about the team's unhappiness regarding Verdugo. I think they should move on from him.

[notin]

There is enough going around about the team's unhappiness regarding Verdugo. I think they should move on from him.

 

I have heard the stories about his bulking up and that it didn’t go over well…

[mvp 78]

I have heard the stories about his bulking up and that it didn’t go over well…

 

And they don't like that he'll ONLY take batting practice in the indoors cage.

[Old Red]

You’d start him over Devers?

 

Is that a trick question? Point being they didn’t sign Turner to go to the bench, and if they did I would think Bloom is even worse than he is if that’s possible.