2023 Free Agents

[mvp 78]

So, Montero signed for about $35M/3.

 

Would anyone here have offered him $12M x 3?

 

I might have.

 

Diaz got $102M/5. Big NOPE from me on outbidding that.

 

I would have signed Montero for that because he would have been the closer in BOS. Diaz was a lot of money and wasn't leaving NY.

 

The worst contract though was Suarez for 5/46, a 32 year old with less than 50 career MLB innings. That's crazy to me.

[Hugh2]

Mookie was traded.

 

While Betts technically did get traded, I think at the time it was a foregone conclusion he was not signing an extension here and was going to FA. Seeing how Boston figured they were not going to compete in 2020 they figured it was better to get something for him. It's a semantics battle, but it a sense he did jump.

[Old Red]

Mookie was traded.

 

The point was that having Bogey, Raffy, and Mookie in the primes of their careers, and add in JD who was still productive to being any part of a rebuild, or on any kind of a cliff would have just a big waste to me. You are only in your prime for so long a time, and you have to make hay while the sun still continues to shine.

[Bellhorn04]

Mookie was traded.

 

Mookie was traded.

JD did not opt out.

Bogey is opting out because in his situation only an idiot wouldn't.

Devers is still under contract.

 

Other than that, a great list of "jumpers".

[mvp 78]

While Betts technically did get traded, I think at the time it was a foregone conclusion he was not signing an extension here and was going to FA. Seeing how Boston figured they were not going to compete in 2020 they figured it was better to get something for him. It's a semantics battle, but it a sense he did jump.

 

Without that counteroffer from ownership, we'll never know unfortunately.

[Bellhorn04]

While Betts technically did get traded, I think at the time it was a foregone conclusion he was not signing an extension here and was going to FA.

 

It may have been a 100% mistaken foregone conclusion. It appears that the Sox made virtually zero effort to negotiate and find a middle ground.

[mvp 78]

There's comfort in having this same conversation again.

[Bellhorn04]

There's comfort in having this same conversation again.

 

Something to pass the time. If we do nothing but wait for Chaim to unfold his magical moves, we will all calcify.

[notin]

It may have been a 100% mistaken foregone conclusion. It appears that the Sox made virtually zero effort to negotiate and find a middle ground.

 

And why bother?

 

The fans always side with the player.

 

As we re-re-re-re-re-discuss the Mookie situation, a negotiation in which the Sox reportedly offered $200million up to $300milll, and Mookie balked reportedly sticking to $400mill, the problem is the Six didn’t counteroffer.

 

But with Bogaerts and Lester, the Sox offered lowball contracts, neither Lester nor Bogaerts countered, and fans blamed the Sox again.

 

I tell you, there may be no easier job in the world than sports agent. You clearly don’t need to negotiate anything…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No.

 

Baseball is all about cherry-picking, because teams play 162 games and everyone wins between 40% and 60% of them. (And those rarities that do fall outside that range don’t fall outside it by much.) You can literally find bad stretches for any team. It just depends how much you emphasize them to support whatever point you’re trying to make.

 

You can’t always do that to football teams…

 

Don't get me started on football, where every single prediction is based entirely on what a team did just last week.

 

And I disagree with how much the media emphasizes the thrill of victory, agony of defeat and how only titles can determine whether a team had a successful season. I can appreciate a good year for a player or team, and I'm not thoroughly disgusted and call the season a failure if my team doesn't win it all in the end.

 

There's certainly less bitterness -- for this fan, anyway -- when a favorite finally wins a few rings after decades of coming up short.

[Hugh2]

Don't get me started on football, where every single prediction is based entirely on what a team did just last week.

 

And I disagree with how much the media emphasizes the thrill of victory, agony of defeat and how only titles can determine whether a team had a successful season. I can appreciate a good year for a player or team, and I'm not thoroughly disgusted and call the season a failure if my team doesn't win it all in the end.

 

There's certainly less bitterness -- for this fan, anyway -- when a favorite finally wins a few rings after decades of coming up short.

 

Football is a horrible comparison, maybe we can use the NBA or even the NFL, but they only play 17 games a year roughly 10% what mlb plays.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Their pen was their weakest or one of the weakest area a few years back, so it's not like that is what has gotten them to the ALCS "every year."

 

I never said that, but there's no point in arguing how good the Astros' bullpen is now, or that they are great in finding, signing and developing international starting pitchers, young star replacements like Tucker and Pena, and minor league trade targets like Yordan.

 

The Red Sox need to do all those things to narrow the gap, but which area to improve upon is the quickest route to returning to respectability?

[Hugh2]

Without that counteroffer from ownership, we'll never know unfortunately.

 

There's been so much reporting and talks from industry insiders about Mookie going to FA, he was dead set on going to FA. I'm sure the Sox could have kept him if they dangled 400 million though.

[Hugh2]

It may have been a 100% mistaken foregone conclusion. It appears that the Sox made virtually zero effort to negotiate and find a middle ground.

 

I think it would be foolish for anyone to assume they didn't try to negotiate. There's so much that happens we never hear about. Does anyone actually think the Sox didn't talk to him and want to extend him if they could? What is the logic and the rationale behind the thought process? It makes zero sense.

[Hugh2]

And why bother?

 

The fans always side with the player.

 

As we re-re-re-re-re-discuss the Mookie situation, a negotiation in which the Sox reportedly offered $200million up to $300milll, and Mookie balked reportedly sticking to $400mill, the problem is the Six didn’t counteroffer.

 

But with Bogaerts and Lester, the Sox offered lowball contracts, neither Lester nor Bogaerts countered, and fans blamed the Sox again.

 

I tell you, there may be no easier job in the world than sports agent. You clearly don’t need to negotiate anything…

 

Exactly, now if Covid happened two years earlier, maybe Mookie takes the 300 million. Different universe.

[Old Red]

And why bother?

 

The fans always side with the player.

 

As we re-re-re-re-re-discuss the Mookie situation, a negotiation in which the Sox reportedly offered $200million up to $300milll, and Mookie balked reportedly sticking to $400mill, the problem is the Six didn’t counteroffer.

 

But with Bogaerts and Lester, the Sox offered lowball contracts, neither Lester nor Bogaerts countered, and fans blamed the Sox again.

 

I tell you, there may be no easier job in the world than sports agent. You clearly don’t need to negotiate anything…

 

As we have discussed many times over too the lowball contract offers to Lester, and Bogey they didn’t warrant a counter offer, and, because the offers were so low Red Sox management were to blame, and were blamed rightly so.

[mvp 78]

Something to pass the time. If we do nothing but wait for Chaim to unfold his magical moves, we will all calcify.

 

I'm not complaining. If we keep refining the conversation, maybe we'll get better at it.

[mvp 78]

There's been so much reporting and talks from industry insiders about Mookie going to FA, he was dead set on going to FA. I'm sure the Sox could have kept him if they dangled 400 million though.

 

Or 350m?

[mvp 78]

I think it would be foolish for anyone to assume they didn't try to negotiate. There's so much that happens we never hear about. Does anyone actually think the Sox didn't talk to him and want to extend him if they could? What is the logic and the rationale behind the thought process? It makes zero sense.

 

If they offered more than 300M, they would have told us. This ownership group leaks worse than my old shed.

[Hugh2]

Or 350m?

 

I think Betts "buy now" price was higher before he went to LA. When covid struck and we didn't even know if there was going to be a season so much uncertainty in the world lowered that price.

[Hugh2]

If they offered more than 300M, they would have told us. This ownership group leaks worse than my old shed.

 

Not under Bloom, love him or hate him, but he leaks almost nothing. But I vaguely remember it reported that the Sox were rumored to have offered him up to $300 million>?!> no?

[Hugh2]

My opinion changes daily, but my new current offseason wish list includes: Senga/Correa

[moonslav59]

Maybe just stop using the term. File it. All of us.

 

It's a term that has different connotations to different people. I started saying downturn, but that didn't seem to change the narrative.

 

I will refrain from using that term, but if someone brings it up, I may still respond.

[moonslav59]

Mookie was traded.

 

Yes, he was.

[Hugh2]

If they offered more than 300M, they would have told us. This ownership group leaks worse than my old shed.

 

Also, if you trust Felger& Mazz, they reported that they heard the Sox ultimately caved in and gave Betts what he wanted but he said no. I have heard from other places that Betts ultimately wanted to go to FA. There's a lot of evidence Betts didn't want to resign here....something some Sox fans may never accept and/or get over.

[Bellhorn04]

Also, if you trust Felger& Mazz, they reported that they heard the Sox ultimately caved in and gave Betts what he wanted but he said no. I have heard from other places that Betts ultimately wanted to go to FA. There's a lot of evidence Betts didn't want to resign here....something some Sox fans may never accept and/or get over.

 

What is the actual evidence that he didn't want to re-sign? From what I can tell it's all speculation. Mookie has never said anything that would even suggest it was the case.

[Hugh2]

What is the actual evidence that he didn't want to re-sign? From what I can tell it's all speculation. Mookie has never said anything that would even suggest it was the case.

 

There were other reports and others speculating. I have a high level of confidence Mookie didn't want to sign here, as Red Sox fans that's a very harsh reality to face and I can understand why many of us refuse to accept that. But conversely, why would Mookie suggest post script he didn't want to sign here? He's not a bad guy, why would he trash talk Boston like that, I'm not surprised he hasn't suggested such.

[Hugh2]

What is the actual evidence that he didn't want to re-sign? From what I can tell it's all speculation. Mookie has never said anything that would even suggest it was the case.

 

To add and answer your question, the biggest piece of evidence we have that Mookie didn't want to resign here is the fact that he was traded. I know people love to hate Boston and criticize the moves, but do people really believe the Sox wouldn't have tried harder to keep him here, or not have traded him before FA if he really wanted to stay? Devers is still here, they may not want to resign Devers but if he had no intention of staying here there would be trade rumors galore right now.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There were other reports and others speculating. I have a high level of confidence Mookie didn't want to sign here, as Red Sox fans that's a very harsh reality to face and I can understand why many of us refuse to accept that. But conversely, why would Mookie suggest post script he didn't want to sign here? He's not a bad guy, why would he trash talk Boston like that, I'm not surprised he hasn't suggested such.

 

It is my money department: weren't we all willing to pay $12 dollars for a can of beer and $50 bucks for parking to go watch Mookie in person?

 

I'm not defending Betts, but if I went pro at a job done mostly at night and outside, and wanted to extend my career as much as possible (not to mention if I hailed from the South), I'd want to work in warmer climes than crappy-Spring New England. As for the fishbowl fandom of Red Sox Nation, that comes with the career that almost all these guys dreamt of as a kid.

 

Boston isn't for everyone, though for some guys, there's nowhere better (and some don't realize it until they leave). For Mookie, already dabbling as a DJ and documentary producer, Hollywood is ok, too.

[Bellhorn04]

To add and answer your question, the biggest piece of evidence we have that Mookie didn't want to resign here is the fact that he was traded. I know people love to hate Boston and criticize the moves, but do people really believe the Sox wouldn't have tried harder to keep him here, or not have traded him before FA if he really wanted to stay?

 

Here's the other scenario, which makes every bit as much sense, IMHO:

 

1) The Red Sox didn't want to pay above a certain amount, and they didn't think Mookie would accept that amount.

2) By trading him before 2020 they got some talent for him, and they removed a $27 million salary obligation and were able to get under the tax threshold by getting the Dodgers to also take on $15 million a year for Price.