2023 Free Agents

[moonslav59]

He made two starts after returning from the IL. Which one scared you more?

 

Ina ll fairness to jacko, the 6 starts after the first time on the IL showed a drop in velo, too.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/nathan-eovaldi/9132/graphs?pitchgraphs=true&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&start=2020&end=2022&rtype=mult&gt1=15&dStatArray=FA&ymin=&ymax=

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Sox have offered Eovaldi a multi year deal. No word on specifics

 

Why, oh why, would the Sox do that. Yes, Eovaldi had a good ERA, but his K rate dropped and more importantly, his velocity fell off a cliff after he went on the IL. I could see a 1 year deal with a generous buyout of a team option for a second, but no way do I commit to him for more than one year.

 

He's a proven winner in Boston, a guy who consistently beats the Yankees, and who still wants to be a Red Sox.

 

All those are factors that matter, that none of the other free agent pitchers possess. If Eovaldi re-signs, I will give credit to Bloom and Co.

[notin]

Good points, but I would for the LAST time say I’m against giving out any 10 yr contracts.

 

I hate long deals, too, but the days of locking up your star players on 6-7 year deals are all but Jurassic at this point. Players like the long term security.

 

The Super High AAV for Very Short Years is a new trend, but I’m not sure it’s any better. If a team gives, say, Jake deGrom a 3 year $120mill deal, and deGrom needs TJ six months later, that takes down a team for multiple seasons in multiple ways…

[Old Red]

You have never once admitted to a mistAke in misinterpreting others' posts, so it's not straw grasping.

 

You have also been called out, several times on statements you have made and their meanings, and instead of admitting you misworded or stated something, you double and triple down, so once again, COME ON, MAN!.

 

The famous example was when you said I "don't like Bogey, and Bogey's defense, either," and never backed down from the obvious meaning of you saying I don't like Bogey. You tripled down on that meaning only that I don't like Bogey's defense.

 

It's no different from me perhaps wrongly interpreting you "hate Cora," when you never really said that word for word. I admitted I was wrong for saying you hated him. You never admitted you were wrong for saying I don't like Bogey. That's the BIG DIFFERENCE, you never get and never will. And, that's just one example.

It’s always that someone else doesn’t get it when they deal with you. Amazing! Once again comparing a typing error with a error in judgement. By your flawed logic if I said I would not resign Bogey, or Raffy then that would mean I hate Bogey, and Raffy. That is how flawed your logic is. Flawed to the ist degree, and then some.Wow! This whole thing was about you comparing a typing error with an error in judgement, and you are trying to make it into something different. Let’s just stick to Red Sox talk.

[notin]

Ina ll fairness to jacko, the 6 starts after the first time on the IL showed a drop in velo, too.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/nathan-eovaldi/9132/graphs?pitchgraphs=true&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&start=2020&end=2022&rtype=mult>1=15&dStatArray=FA&ymin=&ymax=

 

 

And that there was a subsequent IL trip a short time late does strongly point to a guy who came back too early.

 

If “multiyear” means two years, I’m fine with it. Three years, I’d be hesitant (although beyond complaining about it, my options are limited). Four years or more? Walk away…

[moonslav59]

It’s always that someone else doesn’t get it when they deal with you. Amazing! Once again comparing a typing error with a error in judgement. By your flawed logic if I said I would not resign Bogey, or Raffy then that would mean I hate Bogey, and Raffy. That is how flawed your logic is. Flawed to the ist degree, and then some.Wow! This whole thing was about you comparing a typing error with an error in judgement, and you are trying to make it into something different. Let’s just stick to Red Sox talk.

 

I had reason to say you hated Cora, but you never said it, so I apologized.

 

It wasn't a typo error when you said I "don't like Bogey or Bogey's defense, either." That statement clearly says and means you think I don't like Bogey. I brought it up, and instead of you saying you made a mistake, you doubled and tripled down on that statement as not meaning what it clearly means. It was not a typo, so you are talking about another issue, not the one you are responding to, now. That is "how flawed your logic is."

 

You are seriously reaching comparing anything like not wanting to sign Bogey or devers to hating them vs you saying you would not hire Cora back to thinking you hate him- "big difference", as you would say. There were also many other statements made against Cora than you have ever made against Bogey or Devers, in fact I do not remember you ever saying negative things about those two, so stop your constant strawman arguments.

 

BTW, you could still say you mistakenly said I do not like Bogey, but you won't.

 

It was totally fair saying I don't like his D, al2though I have praised his improvement, this season, but I have never said I dislike Bogey. In fact, I have said I'd offer him a contract very similar to your suggested offer, so if I dislike him, it's b/y no more than you do. Fess up! Come on, man!

[moonslav59]

And that there was a subsequent IL trip a short time late does strongly point to a guy who came back too early.

 

If “multiyear” means two years, I’m fine with it. Three years, I’d be hesitant (although beyond complaining about it, my options are limited). Four years or more? Walk away…

 

I get that, and those 2 games showed a further drop from the 6 game drop, earlier. The fac t is, his velo dropped in that 6 game sample size, too. A clear drop.

 

While I don't share jacko's philosophy that once velo drops it can never come back, that drop is very concerning to me, especially at his age.

[Old Red]

I had reason to say you hated Cora, but you never said it, so I apologized.

 

It wasn't a typo error when you said I "don't like Bogey or Bogey's defense, either." That statement clearly says and means you think I don't like Bogey. I brought it up, and instead of you saying you made a mistake, you doubled and tripled down on that statement as not meaning what it clearly means. It was not a typo, so you are talking about another issue, not the one you are responding to, now. That is "how flawed your logic is."

 

You are seriously reaching comparing anything like not wanting to sign Bogey or devers to hating them vs you saying you would not hire Cora back to thinking you hate him- "big difference", as you would say. There were also many other statements made against Cora than you have ever made against Bogey or Devers, in fact I do not remember you ever saying negative things about those two, so stop your constant strawman arguments.

 

BTW, you could still say you mistakenly said I do not like Bogey, but you won't.

 

It was totally fair saying I don't like his D, al2though I have praised his improvement, this season, but I have never said I dislike Bogey. In fact, I have said I'd offer him a contract very similar to your suggested offer, so if I dislike him, it's b/y no more than you do. Fess up! Come on, man!

 

Ignoring, and snoring.

[notin]

I get that, and those 2 games showed a further drop from the 6 game drop, earlier. The fac t is, his velo dropped in that 6 game sample size, too. A clear drop.

 

While I don't share jacko's philosophy that once velo drops it can never come back, that drop is very concerning to me, especially at his age.

 

That’s why I prefer a shorter term.

 

My bigger concern with Eovaldi was that even before the injuries, he was far too homer-prone…

[Old Red]

That’s why I prefer a shorter term.

 

My bigger concern with Eovaldi was that even before the injuries, he was far too homer-prone…

 

I was told earlier that the Red Sox couldn’t do better than Kike for $10M, and now the Red Sox have to do no better, and settle for Evol. Neither move to me is is a move trying to get the Red Sox better.

[Bellhorn04]

I was told earlier that the Red Sox couldn’t do better than Kike for $10M, and now the Red Sox have to do no better, and settle for Evol. Neither move to me is is a move trying to get the Red Sox better.

 

Some of the moves you make aren't to get better, but to keep from getting worse.

[Hugh2]

Riley had 3 arb years left when he signed. Devers now has only one.

 

I think it's fair to use Riley's deal as a baseline and then adjust for the difference of 3 years buyout vs. 1.

 

I disagree for two reasons.

 

A.) Two more years of team control is big deal, especially for a high-end player in his Prime.

 

B.) This is even more important, guys who sign earlier always take a little less money for security. A lot can happen in three years. Guys can decline, guys can get injured and never fully recover. The mindset and reasoning for accepting a deal before a player hits free agency is always on the basis of taking less money sooner to guarantee a payday. Guys who have the mindset of betting on themselves, and have agents who convey these wishes either take them to free agency or only sign when the team pays the "buy now price". It's easy to see why the best of the best of the best athletes in the world at their sports might have this mindset. The fact that Riley took the money three years before arbitration is all the ancedotal evidence we need to suggest he was willing to take under market value to guarantee a payday. Devers chose to bet on himself.

 

With that said. I would agree that the Riley deal is a perfect example of what a Devers extension should have looked like up until last season. It's actually a great example, so Kudo to Red on that one. I'm saying it's apples to Oranges because Devers is choosing to go to free agency and will get offered much more. If Devers was willing to sign an early extension I would agree, but it's blatantly obvious he chose to bet on himself. There's nothing wrong with players who do this, and there's nothing wrong with those who take the money.

[Hugh2]

I was told earlier that the Red Sox couldn’t do better than Kike for $10M, and now the Red Sox have to do no better, and settle for Evol. Neither move to me is is a move trying to get the Red Sox better.

 

Kike was injured this year, if he comes back and performs like he did in 2021.......how are the Red Sox not better?

[Hugh2]

Some of the moves you make aren't to get better, but to keep from getting worse.

 

If Kike is healthy, 10 million is a steal, it's also a one year deal, I also think they may have looked at the free agent market in the outfield this offseason and saw value in locking him up early.

[moonslav59]

I was told earlier that the Red Sox couldn’t do better than Kike for $10M, and now the Red Sox have to do no better, and settle for Evol. Neither move to me is is a move trying to get the Red Sox better.

 

As one poster often says, "Where did (anyone) say we can do no better than Kike at $10M/1 or Nate at $19.4M/1?

 

I have heard some say they like the deals or suggested deals, but not anyone say we can do no better.

 

Perhaps, I am just misinterpreting, again. Overanalyzing, again. Misunderstanding simple English, again.

[Old Red]

Kike was injured this year, if he comes back and performs like he did in 2021.......how are the Red Sox not better?

 

That is a big if, and he sucked before, and after he was injured this past year. If he performs the same as 2022 how does he make them better? Shoulda, woulda, and coulda is not a way to go for me. I guess for you it is.

[Old Red]

Some of the moves you make aren't to get better, but to keep from getting worse.

 

I would rather get better myself like a winning record, and a trip to the postseason.

[Bellhorn04]

I would rather get better myself like a winning record, and a trip to the postseason.

 

Yes, we all would.

[Bellhorn04]

That is a big if, and he sucked before, and after he was injured this past year. If he performs the same as 2022 how does he make them better? Shoulda, woulda, and coulda is not a way to go for me. I guess for you it is.

 

You make it sound like there are players who are guaranteed to be great next year, and those are the guys we should be signing.

[Old Red]

You make it sound like there are players who are guaranteed to be great next year, and those are the guys we should be signing.

 

Come on now everyone knows you can’t guarantee anyone to be good, or great next year. I just didn’t think was a great way to work on the 2023 roster by signing Kike.

[Bellhorn04]

Come on now everyone knows you can’t guarantee anyone to be good, or great next year. I just didn’t think was a great way to work on the 2023 roster by signing Kike.

 

But then you have to look at who is a better center fielder available for less than $10 mill.

 

Anyway, the key to this team getting better is pitching. Bloom probably has to swing a trade for a starter, and sign a couple of relievers. He's got his work cut out, that's for sure.

[moonslav59]

You make it sound like there are players who are guaranteed to be great next year, and those are the guys we should be signing.

 

But, don't pay them what they need to get paid to sign them.

[moonslav59]

But then you have to look at who is a better center fielder available for less than $10 mill.

 

 

You won't get names.

 

You can never be wrong, if you just say...

 

We need to add a top closer.

 

We need to add a good CF'er, SS and SP'er.

[Old Red]

But then you have to look at who is a better center fielder available for less than $10 mill.

 

Anyway, the key to this team getting better is pitching. Bloom probably has to swing a trade for a starter, and sign a couple of relievers. He's got his work cut out, that's for sure.

The BP is already weaker without Whitlock, and like I said before I can’t believe Kike is the only option out there, but that would be Bloom’s job to find out. Swing a trade for a starter even if Evol is still resigned? The bullpen also more than 2 reliable arms.

[Hugh2]

That is a big if, and he sucked before, and after he was injured this past year. If he performs the same as 2022 how does he make them better? Shoulda, woulda, and coulda is not a way to go for me. I guess for you it is.

 

Dude I’m sorry, but this has got to be the dumbest f***ing comment ever. Your whole point is on the opinion that his 2023 will reflect his 2022. When has he sucked before? He’s really only had ONE down season since he was 23 and before then he was young and still developing. If he’s fully recovered he’s worth way more than 10 million.

 

What player, on the free agent market can play the outfield hasn’t had ONE bad season. Or had one injury riddled season. Name one? I dare you. Name one who won’t cost more than double KIKEs contract and I’ll donate $100 to a charity of your choice.

 

And the whole “guess it is for you” no it’s isn’t for me. Don’t put words in my mouth that are based on YOUR opinion. My opinion is, it’s more likely than not Kike plays better in 2023 and is worth 10 million.

 

Have you seen the 2023 FA market in the outfield. You know we needed a CF and a RF. Who do you sign to “make the team better”

 

I bet you can’t answer that question.

[Hugh2]

That’s $100 dollars that could go towards curing cancer in children. Or wounded warriors. Make the world a better place and put me in my place.

[moonslav59]

Dude I’m sorry, but this has got to be the dumbest f***ing comment ever. Your whole point is on the opinion that his 2023 will reflect his 2022. When has he sucked before? He’s really only had ONE down season since he was 23 and before then he was young and still developing. If he’s fully recovered he’s worth way more than 10 million.

 

What player, on the free agent market can play the outfield hasn’t had ONE bad season. Or had one injury riddled season. Name one? I dare you. Name one who won’t cost more than double KIKEs contract and I’ll donate $100 to a charity of your choice.

 

And the whole “guess it is for you” no it’s isn’t for me. Don’t put words in my mouth that are based on YOUR opinion. My opinion is, it’s more likely than not Kike plays better in 2023 and is worth 10 million.

 

Have you seen the 2023 FA market in the outfield. You know we needed a CF and a RF. Who do you sign to “make the team better”

 

I bet you can’t answer that question.

 

Joe Reliable is his choice in the pen.

 

Johnny Best in CF.

 

Peter Durable at SP.

 

[Hugh2]

You won't get names.

 

You can never be wrong, if you just say...

 

We need to add a top closer.

 

We need to add a good CF'er, SS and SP'er.

 

That’s the thing that gets me the most. I get everyone has different opinions and visions for how to improve but when your only argument is vague statements like “go get a centerfielder” or trade for a “#1 pitcher” without naming names, contracts that make sense, and prospect packages to trading partners that makes sense you’re just talking out of your ass.

 

That’s what I don’t respect. Add those things in and I’ll respect a different opinion.

 

It’s like some fans act like the rest of MLB exists for our amusement. We can just go down to the CFer store and go get a good centerfielder for a price that works for us. This ain’t “name your price” lol. Or we can trade away our garbage to a team who will willingly give us away their top young pitchers.

 

It’s no wonder these people get angry when trades are actually made and free agents are actually signed. Despite their wishes to do so it’s always “too high” a price because they have zero concept what it actually takes to build a team. Remember this. I’m calling it now. No matter who the Sox sign or trade for this off-season, they are going to hate it and complain about it.

 

Now I expect some generic rebuttal about is being on Blooms nuts. Like yeah, we haven’t critiqued him as much as others in here, but a lot of people who have defended Bloom have also criticized him too. It’s not a zero sum game. At least we can say that.

[Hugh2]

The most ironic thing. The literal NAME of this thread is 2023 free agents. Like….WTF are you even doing in here if you can’t name names.

[Old Red]

Dude I’m sorry, but this has got to be the dumbest f***ing comment ever. Your whole point is on the opinion that his 2023 will reflect his 2022. When has he sucked before? He’s really only had ONE down season since he was 23 and before then he was young and still developing. If he’s fully recovered he’s worth way more than 10 million.

 

What player, on the free agent market can play the outfield hasn’t had ONE bad season. Or had one injury riddled season. Name one? I dare you. Name one who won’t cost more than double KIKEs contract and I’ll donate $100 to a charity of your choice.

 

And the whole “guess it is for you” no it’s isn’t for me. Don’t put words in my mouth that are based on YOUR opinion. My opinion is, it’s more likely than not Kike plays better in 2023 and is worth 10 million.

 

Have you seen the 2023 FA market in the outfield. You know we needed a CF and a RF. Who do you sign to “make the team better”

 

I bet you can’t answer that question.

 

First of all thanks for all the kind words the fact that you have made such an effort it has brightened my day, which will last for days on end. Dude Kike is a career 239 hitter, and is no superstar. Your opinion was that he was good in 2021, and yes he plays a good CF, and had a hot streak in the postseason, but once again he is no superstar. The Kike subject is another subject that has been recycled over, and over. Once again your kind words are well appreciated. S A L U T E!