Vazquez traded to Houston

[moonslav59]

I think.that is exactly what Pedro is saying. Bloom has to repair his relations with both if he sincerely wants them to remain. Merloni says it is not clear if Bloom (Henry) is willing to pay Bogaerts or Devers to remain long term.

 

Good point.

[moonslav59]

Here is a look at CWS pitchers' numbers with McGuire vs other CWS catchers:

 

OPS Against

 

Kopech

.627 McGuire (342 PAs)

.759 Zavala (27)

.741 Grandal (23)

 

Cease

.517 Zavala (164)

.524 McGuire (144)

.739 Grandal (175)

 

Lynn

.718 McGuire (142)

.870 Zavala (92)

n/a Grandal (0)

 

Cueto

.670 Grandal (153)

.710 Zavala (180)

 

Giolito

1.070 McGuire (114)

.779 Grandal (181)

.709 Zavala (146)

 

Lopez

.515 McGuire (71)

.784 Grandal (62)

.530 Zavala (36)

 

Hendricks

.444 McGuire (66)

.851 Grandal (56)

.721 Zavala (28)

 

Banks

.455 McGuire (66)

.796 Grandal (67)

.610 Zavala (35)

 

Ruiz

.725 McGuire (65)

1.012 Grandal (57)

.540 Zavala (56)

 

Lambert

.597 McGuire (63)

.587 Zavala (31)

.598 Grandal (16)

 

Graveman

.736 Zavala (65)

.596 McGuire (62)

.749 Grandal (72)

 

Unbalanced:

 

Velazquez

.814 McGuire (160)

.569 Grandal (26)

.778 Zavala (18)

 

Keuchel

.971 Grandal

n/a McGuire & Zavala

[moonslav59]

2018-2021 Top TOR pitchers by IP

ERA with catchers: Jansen, McGuire, Maile, Martin, Kirk, Adams

 

Ryu

1.52 Martin (131)

3.62 Jansen (186 IP)

4.90 McGuire (61)

 

Stroman

2.89 Jansen (118)

3.84 Maile (87)

4.03 Martin (393)

n/a McGuire

 

Gaviglio

3.45 Martin (44)

4.41 Jansen (74)

6.12 Maile (78)

7.27 McGuire (26)

 

A Sanchez

3.30 Martin (341)

5.24 Jansen (79)

5.59 McGuire (10)

6.45 Maile (84)

 

It appears McGuire was not all that good to start his career in the CERA area.

 

[vjcsmoke]

Vaz wss very popular in the clubhouse. Listening to Boston sports radio, this trade has not been well received. Sports radio cites reports out of the clubhouse that suggest the players morale is worse now than before the deal. There is concern that Devers .may not wish to stay in Boston regardless of how much money the Sox offer.

Now many posters here will poo poo this But the sentiment in Boston is that the players do not have confidence in Bloom.

 

One hopes that beating up on a horrible KC team will lift everyone in the clubhouse's mood.

 

Can you blame them for losing confidence in this GM? Bloom has shown ZERO LOYALTY to homegrown talent and he consistently trades away good players for BAD ones.

 

See the recent JBJ blunder. And Bloom finally DFA'd JBJ after bringing in 34 year old outfielder Tommy Pham. Think about it, an aging 34 year old OFer who barely hits .700 OPS is an UPGRADE over JBJ! Oh and you remember that Hunter Renfroe guy? He's chilling with 19 HRs and .806 OPS for Milwaukee!

 

To add insult to injury he now trades away a well respected long time Red Sox in Vazquez and replaces him with a catcher who's barely hitting .225 with a .546 OPS this year and whose claim to 'FAME' is getting arrested for Public WANKING!! *SMH*

 

Bloom has lost the clubhouse, we can only hope this will hasten his departure from 'leading' this club straight to the basement of the AL East!

[vjcsmoke]

I think Cora relates to the players and will do his best to keep things under control. I think the players do like playing for Cora , but are disgruntled with the front office. And there is nothing better than a series with the Royals to improve spirits all around . But the Sox had better be careful not to alienate guys like Bogaerts and Devers..

 

Seriously Bogaerts and Devers are core players going forward. But Bloom seems intent doing things 'his way' and losing the trust of the players. We'll just see how long ownership will put up with Bloom. It will not end well if we stay in the cellar and keep playing the way we have been. 28 runs given up is an EMBARRASSMENT!

 

Last place in the AL East, probably not what ownership had in mind when they first hired 'the genius' Chaim Bloom.

[S5Dewey]

As we often say here, what would you expect Bloom to say?

 

It's just ironic that Bloom and I used the same word to describe Vaz' overall contribution and this dust-up started when "another poster" took exception to that word.

 

Unfortunately this forum has become a "gotcha!" forum for a couple of posters. It's why I don't post much anymore (and probably shouldn't have posted this time).

[Bellhorn04]

It's just ironic that Bloom and I used the same word to describe Vaz' overall contribution and this dust-up started when "another poster" took exception to that word.

 

Unfortunately this forum has become a "gotcha!" forum for a couple of posters. It's why I don't post much anymore (and probably shouldn't have posted this time).

 

Dewey

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. I always like your contributions, even when I disagree, and I notice it when you're not here.

[Elktonnick]

I thought Blooms team meeting was a good start But the way the team played, flat and listless, afterwards causes me to wonder whether if he was too late in calling such a meeting.

This clubs needs to rebound quickly. For me, question is not whether the team will make the playoffs but rather have they given up totally and has Bloom lost Bogaerts and Devers.

[notin]

Vaz wss very popular in the clubhouse. Listening to Boston sports radio, this trade has not been well received. Sports radio cites reports out of the clubhouse that suggest the players morale is worse now than before the deal. There is concern that Devers .may not wish to stay in Boston regardless of how much money the Sox offer.

Now many posters here will poo poo this But the sentiment in Boston is that the players do not have confidence in Bloom.

 

One hopes that beating up on a horrible KC team will lift everyone in the clubhouse's mood.

 

The thing is, the players are the ones who could have forced the non-trade of Vazquez. They know that. Bogarts and JD said as much…

[notin]

I thought Blooms team meeting was a good start But the way the team played, flat and listless, afterwards causes me to wonder whether if he was too late in calling such a meeting.

This clubs needs to rebound quickly. For me, question is not whether the team will make the playoffs but rather have they given up totally and has Bloom lost Bogaerts and Devers.

 

 

I had very little faith when I saw Jaylin Davis was batting leadoff…

[Bellhorn04]

I had very little faith when I saw Jaylin Davis was batting leadoff…

 

LOL

 

Hey, he has a .429 OBP!

[notin]

Can you blame them for losing confidence in this GM? Bloom has shown ZERO LOYALTY to homegrown talent and he consistently trades away good players for BAD ones.

 

See the recent JBJ blunder. And Bloom finally DFA'd JBJ after bringing in 34 year old outfielder Tommy Pham. Think about it, an aging 34 year old OFer who barely hits .700 OPS is an UPGRADE over JBJ! Oh and you remember that Hunter Renfroe guy? He's chilling with 19 HRs and .806 OPS for Milwaukee!

 

To add insult to injury he now trades away a well respected long time Red Sox in Vazquez and replaces him with a catcher who's barely hitting .225 with a .546 OPS this year and whose claim to 'FAME' is getting arrested for Public WANKING!! *SMH*

 

Bloom has lost the clubhouse, we can only hope this will hasten his departure from 'leading' this club straight to the basement of the AL East!

 

1. Renfroe was not homegrown talent.

2. While the trade didn’t work out this year, Bradley is a much better overall player than Renfroe. There’s a reason Bradley had a multi-year right figure contract while Renfroe was playing on a $3mill deal after being non-tendered.

3. It’s not accurate to hold trading Betts against Bloom. Dombrowski was unable to extend him, and then went on to extend Bogaerts and Sale, leaving no budget room to extend Betts anyway. And keeping one last season of Betts would have been worse.

[Old Red]

1. Renfroe was not homegrown talent.

2. While the trade didn’t work out this year, Bradley is a much better overall player than Renfroe. There’s a reason Bradley had a multi-year right figure contract while Renfroe was playing on a $3mill deal after being non-tendered.

3. It’s not accurate to hold trading Betts against Bloom. Dombrowski was unable to extend him, and then went on to extend Bogaerts and Sale, leaving no budget room to extend Betts anyway. And keeping one last season of Betts would have been worse.

 

No one said Renfroe was homegrown talent. Bradley a better overall player? Just, because the Brewers were crazy enough to give JBJ the contract they did that I don’t believe the Red Sox would ever have given him does not mean that. No doubt about JBJ’s D, but for the most part can’t hit a lick. Renfroe, and his 96 RBI were a big part of the Red Sox success last year getting to the PS, and would have helped the Red Sox moe this year than JBJ did. Nobody holds trading Mookie against Bloom, but what he got back in the deal just a JAG, and a minor league player in Downs who’s turned out not to be a prospect at all.

[Old Red]

I thought Blooms team meeting was a good start But the way the team played, flat and listless, afterwards causes me to wonder whether if he was too late in calling such a meeting.

This clubs needs to rebound quickly. For me, question is not whether the team will make the playoffs but rather have they given up totally and has Bloom lost Bogaerts and Devers.

 

Bloom has lost everybody, and the meeting just made things worse. I think Bloom lost Bogey, and Devers before the season even started with those insulting lowball contract offers.

[Old Red]

I had very little faith when I saw Jaylin Davis was batting leadoff…

 

For the most part except for a few weeks when Duran actually was hitting something, and starting with the Super Hero Kike the Red Sox have not had a leadoff hitter all year.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom has lost everybody, and the meeting just made things worse. I think Bloom lost Bogey, and Devers before the season even started with those insulting lowball contract offers.

 

I said it then and saw it coming. Nobody here hammered me for it.

[Old Red]

I said it then and saw it coming. Nobody here hammered me for it.

 

There was a cloud hanging over the team before the season started, and no not Frail, but that cloud is called Bloom.

[Bellhorn04]

I said it then and saw it coming. Nobody here hammered me for it.

 

Saw what coming, exactly?

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom has lost everybody, and the meeting just made things worse. I think Bloom lost Bogey, and Devers before the season even started with those insulting lowball contract offers.

 

What does that even mean, Bloom has "lost" Devers?

 

Devers is having the best season of his career.

 

Too bad all players couldn't be lost like that.

[Old Red]

What does that even mean, Bloom has "lost" Devers?

 

Devers is having the best season of his career.

 

Too bad all players couldn't be lost like that.

 

You are right that Devers is hitting great, but I was talking long term, and staying in Boston, which I don’t see especially if Bogey is gone.

[Bellhorn04]

With all the talk about Bogey being disrespected, he did say he was happy when the team informed him well in advance of the deadline that he wasn't going to be traded. He said it was good communication.

[Old Red]

With all the talk about Bogey being disrespected, he did say he was happy when the team informed him well in advance of the deadline that he wasn't going to be traded. He said it was good communication.

 

Yes he did, but that was before the Vaz trade, and he doesn’t sound so happy now, and even worse he sure isn’t playing like it.

[Elktonnick]

With all the talk about Bogey being disrespected, he did say he was happy when the team informed him well in advance of the deadline that he wasn't going to be traded. He said it was good communication.

 

Pedro Martinez said yesterday that the players are unhappy with the lack of direction. He specifically implied that Bogaerts and Devers have issues with this. The team meeting was obviously Blooms attempt to convince the players that he had a plan.

However what remains unclear is how long a period is that plan.

Merloni who spoke directly to Bloom and who has excellent sources within the team and front office said it was not clear to him that Bloom expected a contending team before 2025. The question is will that satisfy Bogey and Devers. Hence Pedro's reference that they have a headache with both

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Saw what coming, exactly?

 

A demoralized clubhouse. Team leaders directly or indirectly looking at lowball offers can feel disrespect, that is not just represented by dollars, but towards the loyalty employees feel comes with service time. Players can also feel various levels of distrust, rejection and confusion as the season builds toward the trade deadline, with the impending doom of breaking up the band (which most expected this year) or the aftertaste of abandonment (when no reinforcements came in 2019).

 

These guys are young men and brothers, so no manager -- no matter how motivational -- can break those bonds. It's really a front office problem. A player's manager like Cora or Francona may not be the best help when a GM or CBO loses the team. Then again, a hardass yelling at boys to grow up isn't always the solution, either.

 

It may just be better to change the culture, and bring in some veteran voices with peer perspective (yep, those are the players who get hired as new managers when they retire).

[Bellhorn04]

A demoralized clubhouse.

 

But again, Devers is having a great season. If he doesn't look motivated, I'm not sure what motivated looks like.

[FredLynn]

The thing is, the players are the ones who could have forced the non-trade of Vazquez. They know that. Bogarts and JD said as much…

 

It was a smart trade imo. The team is clearly not making the playoffs so tenting Vasquez to the Astros for two prospects is fine. If there is mutual interest he can be resigned after the season because he will be a FA.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes he did, but that was before the Vaz trade, and he doesn’t sound so happy now, and even worse he sure isn’t playing like it.

 

Bogey has been struggling at the plate for a while, by his standards. What are the signs it has anything to do with his attitude?

 

Bogey is in a contract season, too. That tends to be a huge motivator.

[Old Red]

Bogey has been struggling at the plate for months. What are the signs it has anything to do with his attitude?

 

Bogey is in a contract season, too. That tends to be a huge motivator.

 

I agree his bat has had holes for sometime now after a great start, and maybe things have gotten to him, but it sounds like the whole clubhouse isn’t happy, and that is not a good thing, but even that should not be an excuse for not playing well. I think Bogey is either hurting, or is in a daze faze, or both.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Old Red

[Old Red]

But again, Devers is having a great season. If he doesn't look motivated, I'm not sure what motivated looks like.

 

Devers is one of those guys who just want to play, and hit, so even if he is pissed off, and unhappy i don’t think that would faze him.

[Bellhorn04]

Devers is one of those guys who just want to play, and hit, so even if he is pissed off, and unhappy i don’t think that would faze him.

 

And frankly he has no reason to be unhappy, especially with a monster payday in his near future.