Fire Bloom .

[vegasbob]

32-33 with a run differential of 320-321.

 

If Bloom's goal for 2023 was to build a prototypical .500 team, he succeeded brilliantly!

 

It only works out if the Red Sox win today and by 1 run.

[vegasbob]

I hope that mediocrity isn’t his goal.

 

It wasn't his goal, it is his result though

[moonslav59]

It wasn't his goal, it is his result though

 

I can see expecting Bloom's overall record to be near .500 after 3.5 years, given the state of the budget demands and lack of farm infusions, but I expected a winning percentage curve going more or less steadily upwards by year 4.

 

.400 '20

.546 '21

.481 '22

.492 '23

 

Had 2021 been switched with 2023, not many would be complaining.

 

[moonslav59]

The argument that Mayer “fell into his lap” is for simpletons.

 

Mayer was passed on by three other teams, all of whom selected players ranked lower. No one ever discredited Dombrowski selected consensus top ranked draft pick Jay Groome because he simply “fell into his lap”…

 

It's like everything Bloom does right has to be assaulted.

 

We all know he has made many blunders and deals that looked okay when made but failed miserably, but that should not mean all his good deals have to be explained away as luck or whatever.

[Bellhorn04]

I can see expecting Bloom's overall record to be near .500 after 3.5 years, given the state of the budget demands and lack of farm infusions, but I expected a winning percentage curve going more or less steadily upwards by year 4.

 

.400 '20

.546 '21

.481 '22

.492 '23

 

Had 2021 been switched with 2023, not many would be complaining.

 

 

"If 6 was 9" - Jimi Hendrix.

[notin]

"If 6 was 9" - Jimi Hendrix.

 

Also They Might Be Giants

 

 

[moonslav59]

"If 6 was 9" - Jimi Hendrix.

 

Good one.

[Old Red]

It's like everything Bloom does right has to be assaulted.

 

We all know he has made many blunders and deals that looked okay when made but failed miserably, but that should not mean all his good deals have to be explained away as luck or whatever.

 

Now Bloom is getting assaulted, and just not bashed. Nothing like being over dramatic. Bloom gets no credit for Mayer I agree.

[Bellhorn04]

There's nothing wrong with giving a guy credit for not f**king up a good thing.

[Old Red]

There's nothing wrong with giving a guy credit for not f**king up a good thing.

 

Well if you put it that way, but all Bloom did was take the BPA, which I think surprised a lot of people that 3 teams passed on Mayer.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Old Red

[Larry Cook]

Yorke was a total Hang’em Chaim find!

 

Blaze, who should be playing in Portland now, is a total steal for Hang’em Chaim!

[notin]

Yorke was a total Hang’em Chaim find!

 

Blaze, who should be playing in Portland now, is a total steal for Hang’em Chaim!

 

But all he got was Mayer, who fell in his lap…

[Old Red]

But all he got was Mayer, who fell in his lap…

 

What would you call it when not one, not two, but 3; teams passed on him.

[moonslav59]

But all he got was Mayer, who fell in his lap…

 

Bloom has F'd up enough time to make a long list.

 

I just don't get why people have to piss on his good moves and finds.

[Old Red]

Bloom has F'd up enough time to make a long list.

 

I just don't get why people have to piss on his good moves and finds.

 

How was three teams passing on Mayer a good move, and find?

[Old Red]

But all he got was Mayer, who fell in his lap…

 

Keep an eye on Colton Cowser drafted 1 spot after Mayer by Baltimore who’s slashing 8-31-336, and 1048 OPS in AAA.

[notin]

What would you call it when not one, not two, but 3; teams passed on him.

 

He made the right move. But the problem is the “all he got.” Did Yorke and Drohan fall into his lap, too?

 

It’s one thing to crap on his bad moves. But looking to dump on the hood ones is just sad. And the thing is, all of your gripes are the free agent “didn’t predict the future to my standards” stuff. Every GM does that. Or his “why can’t he get a good fielder and rant” that included AND THEN TRIED TO JUSTIFY a Hold Glove winning home run champ. “That was two years ago” is not a valid criticism there…

[Old Red]

He made the right move. But the problem is the “all he got.” Did Yorke and Drohan fall into his lap, too?

 

It’s one thing to crap on his bad moves. But looking to dump on the hood ones is just sad. And the thing is, all of your gripes are the free agent “didn’t predict the future to my standards” stuff. Every GM does that. Or his “why can’t he get a good fielder and rant” that included AND THEN TRIED TO JUSTIFY a Hold Glove winning home run champ. “That was two years ago” is not a valid criticism there…

I know Mayer has been crowned the next great thing already, and if he is great, but we don’t even know yet if someone picked after Mayer like Cowser doesn’t turn out to be a better player now do we? Yorke, and Drohan are still suspects at this point, and I haven’t seen them in a Red Sox uniform yet producing. A hood one? He hasn’t even gotten to AAA yet, and is struggling somewhat at Portland, and yes I got a first hand look his first game there, but if, and when he shows up in Boston, and produces I’ll applaud the move. What is sad is the more you try to make aBloom look better than he is you actually do the opposite.

[Randy Red Sox]

Look with every GM there are hits and misss. Those who support Bloom are not going to change their opinions. The reality is that the Sox have basically played .500 since Chaim arrived and they have also cut the payroll from a top 5 to now #11 in MLB. If Sox fans are happy with that then Bloom has done a great job....

I know Mayer has been crowned the next great thing already, and if he is great, but we don’t even know yet if someone picked after Mayer like Cowser doesn’t turn out to be a better player now do we? Yorke, and Drohan are still suspects at this point, and I haven’t seen them in a Red Sox uniform yet producing. A hood one? He hasn’t even gotten to AAA yet, and is struggling somewhat at Portland, and yes I got a first hand look his first game there, but if, and when he shows up in Boston, and produces I’ll applaud the move. What is sad is the more you try to make aBloom look better than he is you actually do the opposite.

[moonslav59]

Look with every GM there are hits and misss. Those who support Bloom are not going to change their opinions. The reality is that the Sox have basically played .500 since Chaim arrived and they have also cut the payroll from a top 5 to now #11 in MLB. If Sox fans are happy with that then Bloom has done a great job....

 

It's not that simple. I don't know one poster who fully supports Bloom or thinks he's done a "great job," but I know several who think he has been somewhere between bad and horrible.

 

Your mention of going from #5 to #11 tells part of the context, but there were some major changes to team strategy under Bloom than the guy before.

 

1. Not trading top prospects for win now players.

2. When trading away players, the return almost always included a prospect.

3. Only 1 contract was given out beyond 6 years (Devers, and that starts next year.) Only 2 are at or beyond 6 years (Story & Devers) and 3 at 5 or more years (add Yoshida.)

 

Then, factor in how almost every vet Bloom inherited declined in production, some by a lot. (Some, like Sale gave us next to nothing and still is.)

 

It's about context and expectations. Some never believed we had issues during and after 2019. They saw the 2018 team in the 2019 and possible 2020>> teams and never accepted the budget cuts and Betts/Price trade mandates were on JH.

 

Expecting a team already in decline, who then loses Betts & Price, among others, while being forced to not replace their budget space with any sort of cotly talent for over a year, and who also sees near total decline from every vet carried over to 2020 and beyond to be much higher than .500 is what?\

 

If you expected more, you think Bloom has failed.

 

If you knew it would be tough, but expected 4 years to be enough, despite all the context, maybe you think Bloom has been okay- maybe not.

 

If you knew things were going to get rough after 2019, even before seeing Betts & Price traded and their contracts not replaced for over 2 years, maybe you cut Bloom more slack than others, which isn't the same as being a "Bloom supporter."

 

To me, Bloom has tried to do what he was asked to do:

 

Rebuild the farm and 40 man roster depth.

Make some under-the=radar deals that keep us better than we should be.

Sign stop-gap players over and over, until we reach the point where we may decide to spend more or trade a prospect or two for the hear and now.

 

It looks like the spending has ticked up a notch from 2019 to the Story signing right before the 2022 season, but we are looking at a reset.

 

It looks like the farm and 40 man depth has improved, but much remains to be seen, as many of Bloom's picks were HS players.

 

It looked like last winter might be the "splurge" winter, but it was not. Bloom was given a big budget, but he lost some talent, too. Will next winter be the "all-in winter?" Who the hell knows?

 

I'm sure many see me as one of Bloom's biggest defenders, and some probably think I'm a big Bloom supporter, but I don't see it that way. I have defended Bloom, a lot, but only because I feel the criticism has lacked context and perspective.I've also been critical and highly critical about many choices he has made. I think Bloom has done or tried to do what he was asked to do.

 

I had hopes the rebuild would not take 4 years, and we are nearing that 4 year mark, soon. In that sense, it appears Bloom has failed, as we are at .500, right now.

 

I do think our farm is much better, our 40 man roster depth is much better, and our short and long term budget is much better. Some are hard to grade before prospects mature, but it looks better. Bloom has made some mistakes, but in all seriousness, how big of a blunder can a $10M/1 year signing be? How are those signings hurting us more than the Price and Sale deals did? Even Nate, JD and Bogey declined from 2017-2019 to 2020-2022. How that is Bloom's fault, I'll never know.

 

To me, Bloom's grade is hard to pinpoint. I find it hard to think it's below a C, but I can understand why many think it is.

 

[moonslav59]

I do think Bloom made a mistake not building up the rotation more, last winter.

 

He falsely placed hopes on Sale &N Paxton.

 

He likely expected Kluber & Pivetta to repeat 2022's production- in hindsight, that was a mistake.

 

He placed high hopes in Bello, Houck, Whitlock and other younger pitchers.

 

He spent too large of a percentage of capital on the offense over the rotation. I think spending big on the pen was the correct choice.

 

He's never spent more than $10M/1 on a SP'er. Some of that is/was his choice, but some was forced on him, more so before this past winter. I ask, what should be the expectations for SP'ers between $6-10/1M? What should be the expectations for SP/RP paid between $3-5M/1?

 

Sale got over $25M/yr. Nate got $17M x 4.

 

Here are the pitchers Bloom signed for over $3M/1:

 

$16M x 2 Jansen

$10M Kluber & Richards

$9.4M x 2 Barnes extension (not FA)

$8.5M x 2 Martin

$8M Ottavino trade (not FA)

$7M Wacha

$6M Perez I

$6M Paxton '22

$5M Hill

$4.5M Perez II

$4M Paxton '23 player option

$3M Strahm

$3M x 2 Diekman (traded for McGuire)

 

Clearly, this has been a big weak area for Bloom, even when you factor in expectations for pitchers signed for $3-10M/1. They weren't all failures, and some seem to be more about missed timing than being awful pitchers, but it is what it is.

 

That being said, he also added these guys for cheaper than $3M:

Whitlock (Rule 5)

Winckowski (trade)

Schreiber (waivers)

Pivetta was okay for 2+ yrs (trade)

 

Still, overall, the pitching choices have not been great, and when considering the budget, I'm not sure you can say it's been way below what should be expected for that money. 3 of the top 4 cost pitchers, Kluber, Richards and Barnes sucked by any definition or context.

 

Overall, I'm not sure the word "sucks" fits, but it sure as hell has not been good.

 

[Old Red]

It's not that simple. I don't know one poster who fully supports Bloom or thinks he's done a "great job," but I know several who think he has been somewhere between bad and horrible.

 

Your mention of going from #5 to #11 tells part of the context, but there were some major changes to team strategy under Bloom than the guy before.

 

1. Not trading top prospects for win now players.

2. When trading away players, the return almost always included a prospect.

3. Only 1 contract was given out beyond 6 years (Devers, and that starts next year.) Only 2 are at or beyond 6 years (Story & Devers) and 3 at 5 or more years (add Yoshida.)

 

Then, factor in how almost every vet Bloom inherited declined in production, some by a lot. (Some, like Sale gave us next to nothing and still is.)

 

It's about context and expectations. Some never believed we had issues during and after 2019. They saw the 2018 team in the 2019 and possible 2020>> teams and never accepted the budget cuts and Betts/Price trade mandates were on JH.

 

Expecting a team already in decline, who then loses Betts & Price, among others, while being forced to not replace their budget space with any sort of cotly talent for over a year, and who also sees near total decline from every vet carried over to 2020 and beyond to be much higher than .500 is what?\

 

If you expected more, you think Bloom has failed.

 

If you knew it would be tough, but expected 4 years to be enough, despite all the context, maybe you think Bloom has been okay- maybe not.

 

If you knew things were going to get rough after 2019, even before seeing Betts & Price traded and their contracts not replaced for over 2 years, maybe you cut Bloom more slack than others, which isn't the same as being a "Bloom supporter."

 

To me, Bloom has tried to do what he was asked to do:

 

Rebuild the farm and 40 man roster depth.

Make some under-the=radar deals that keep us better than we should be.

Sign stop-gap players over and over, until we reach the point where we may decide to spend more or trade a prospect or two for the hear and now.

 

It looks like the spending has ticked up a notch from 2019 to the Story signing right before the 2022 season, but we are looking at a reset.

 

It looks like the farm and 40 man depth has improved, but much remains to be seen, as many of Bloom's picks were HS players.

 

It looked like last winter might be the "splurge" winter, but it was not. Bloom was given a big budget, but he lost some talent, too. Will next winter be the "all-in winter?" Who the hell knows?

 

I'm sure many see me as one of Bloom's biggest defenders, and some probably think I'm a big Bloom supporter, but I don't see it that way. I have defended Bloom, a lot, but only because I feel the criticism has lacked context and perspective.I've also been critical and highly critical about many choices he has made. I think Bloom has done or tried to do what he was asked to do.

 

I had hopes the rebuild would not take 4 years, and we are nearing that 4 year mark, soon. In that sense, it appears Bloom has failed, as we are at .500, right now.

 

I do think our farm is much better, our 40 man roster depth is much better, and our short and long term budget is much better. Some are hard to grade before prospects mature, but it looks better. Bloom has made some mistakes, but in all seriousness, how big of a blunder can a $10M/1 year signing be? How are those signings hurting us more than the Price and Sale deals did? Even Nate, JD and Bogey declined from 2017-2019 to 2020-2022. How that is Bloom's fault, I'll never know.

 

To me, Bloom's grade is hard to pinpoint. I find it hard to think it's below a C, but I can understand why many think it is.

 

 

Wow! Jared Carrabis said it best in just a FEW words. It used to be that the Red Sox, and Yankee fan bases would say the other team sucks, but now the fan bases are saying their own team sucks. Oh the mighty have fallen. It may have been three close games to watch this WE, but not good baseball at all. Seems kind of watered down to me.

[Bellhorn04]

It only works out if the Red Sox win today and by 1 run.

 

Mission accomplished!

 

We are Even Steven.

[Bellhorn04]

I do think our farm is much better, our 40 man roster depth is much better, and our short and long term budget is much better. Some are hard to grade before prospects mature, but it looks better. Bloom has made some mistakes, but in all seriousness, how big of a blunder can a $10M/1 year signing be? How are those signings hurting us more than the Price and Sale deals did?

 

"How big of a blunder can a $10M/1 year signing be?"

 

That's a fair question about Kluber. I would think the answer is, "big enough to cost us a spot in the playoffs" - which is big. Not saying that's what's going to happen, but you were asking for a hypothetical.

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom's grade for 2023 is still incomplete. Maybe this team can get on another good roll.

 

3 consecutive good starts by Whitlock, Houck and Bello is very encouraging, although they were against a feeble Yankee offense without Judge.

[mvp 78]

I know Mayer has been crowned the next great thing already, and if he is great, but we don’t even know yet if someone picked after Mayer like Cowser doesn’t turn out to be a better player now do we? Yorke, and Drohan are still suspects at this point, and I haven’t seen them in a Red Sox uniform yet producing. A hood one? He hasn’t even gotten to AAA yet, and is struggling somewhat at Portland, and yes I got a first hand look his first game there, but if, and when he shows up in Boston, and produces I’ll applaud the move. What is sad is the more you try to make aBloom look better than he is you actually do the opposite.

 

Cowser is 3 years older than Mayer. Give Mayer 3 more years in MiLB and see how well he hits at AAA. There's a big difference in how quickly college bats and high school bats can progress through a system.

[mvp 78]

Wow! Jared Carrabis said it best in just a FEW words. It used to be that the Red Sox, and Yankee fan bases would say the other team sucks, but now the fan bases are saying their own team sucks. Oh the mighty have fallen. It may have been three close games to watch this WE, but not good baseball at all. Seems kind of watered down to me.

 

Seems that you glob onto that part, but NOT the positivity horn or all the other stuff? Wonder why?

[Old Red]

Cowser is 3 years older than Mayer. Give Mayer 3 more years in MiLB and see how well he hits at AAA. There's a big difference in how quickly college bats and high school bats can progress through a system.

 

I understand all of that, and time will tell about who is good in that draft , and who isn’t. I’m hopeful that Mayer lives up to all the hype.

[Old Red]

Seems that you glob onto that part, but NOT the positivity horn or all the other stuff? Wonder why?

 

Watered down product both of them from years past, which I have been saying for some time now.

[Dipre]

I understand all of that, and time will tell about who is good in that draft , and who isn’t. I’m hopeful that Mayer lives up to all the hype.

 

I don't think you do, as you have consistently demonstrated.