Fire Bloom .

[notin]

He has an fWAR of 2.0 now. Does fWAR not weed out the luck factor enough?

 

Does a .260 BABIPA?

 

A couple days ago I assumed alike had more throwing errors than Tampa, but didn’t verify it.

 

I went and verified it. Kike had 12 at the time; Tampa had 11.

 

Oh and San Diego had 14. Think Wacha’s 31% GB plays the same with the Sox infield?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

What does Wacha really have to do with the 2023 Sox or Bloom anyway?

 

Nothing, except people keep bringing him up, and posting why he isn't that good and why no big league clubs think so, either. It's all subjective, even if posters dig up stats that say Wacha sucks and the Red Sox don't.

 

Personally, I could care less when he actually breaks down and eventually lands on the IL -- like every other MLB pitcher does and will. All we know right now about this year, today, is what Wacha has accomplished, and where the Sox sit.

[dannycater]

"Sox are 228-225 in the last four seasons, 112-119 in the last two seasons, have had only four home sellouts this year, and have been in last place all but 27 days since last July 26."....from Globe. This is absolutely atrocious.

[mvp 78]

Nothing, except people keep bringing him up, and posting why he isn't that good and why no big league clubs think so, either. It's all subjective, even if posters dig up stats that say Wacha sucks and the Red Sox don't.

 

Personally, I could care less when he actually breaks down and eventually lands on the IL -- like every other MLB pitcher does and will. All we know right now about this year, today, is what Wacha has accomplished, and where the Sox sit.

 

The people that are bringing him up aren't the ones saying he isn't good. The people that are bringing him up are doing so to say "why didn't Bloom re-sign him."

 

Bloom could have signed any number of FA SP's. There weren't any posters on here yelling from the rooftops that the Sox needed to sign Wacha while the guy was languishing in FA during ST. If Wacha is really a 180 IP, sub 3.00 ERA guy, he would have been worth a QO. NOBODY thought that was a good idea when it was brought up by moon last season.

 

Wacha isn't here. Who cares. Why keep going back to the one player doing well?

 

Xander has struggled since April. Vaz has been bad. I don't think we need to give Bloom flowers for letting those two guys go or pan him for not keeping Wacha in hindsight.

[Dipre]

"Sox are 228-225 in the last four seasons, 112-119 in the last two seasons, have had only four home sellouts this year, and have been in last place all but 27 days since last July 26."....from Globe. This is absolutely atrocious.

 

I like the word disastrous better. Might give Max an aneurysm.

[mvp 78]

"Sox are 228-225 in the last four seasons, 112-119 in the last two seasons, have had only four home sellouts this year, and have been in last place all but 27 days since last July 26."....from Globe. This is absolutely atrocious.

 

This is a bigger issue than "Michael Wacha is having a good season." Overall, Bloom hasn't put competitive teams on the field. Is he overly concerned with the bottom of the 40 man roster and not the top of it?

[Dipre]

The people that are bringing him up aren't the ones saying he isn't good. The people that are bringing him up are doing so to say "why didn't Bloom re-sign him."

 

Bloom could have signed any number of FA SP's. There weren't any posters on here yelling from the rooftops that the Sox needed to sign Wacha while the guy was languishing in FA during ST. If Wacha is really a 180 IP, sub 3.00 ERA guy, he would have been worth a QO. NOBODY thought that was a good idea when it was brought up by moon last season.

 

Wacha isn't here. Who cares. Why keep going back to the one player doing well?

 

Xander has struggled since April. Vaz has been bad. I don't think we need to give Bloom flowers for letting those two guys go or pan him for not keeping Wacha in hindsight.

 

Also, and this is important, regardless of less than half a season of effective pitching with a much better defense than what the Red Sox would provide and a stadium that diminishes HR power, Wacha just isn't that good. I don't see anyone complaining about the Sox not bringing back Martin Perez. Wanna know why? Because he turned back into a pumpkin.

[mvp 78]

I like the word disastrous better. Might give Max an aneurysm.

 

Is it really atrocious if they are above .500?!?!? Webster's defines atrocious as savagely wicked or cruel. It's not like we're Washington Nationals fans coming off a WS championship and going 172 - 278 (.382 %). /s

[mvp 78]

Also, and this is important, regardless of less than half a season of effective pitching with a much better defense than what the Red Sox would provide and a stadium that diminishes HR power, Wacha just isn't that good. I don't see anyone complaining about the Sox not bringing back Martin Perez. Wanna know why? Because he turned back into a pumpkin.

 

He's an average to below average pitcher who has thrown over 140 innings in a year twice in his career. He's having a good stretch and it doesn't impact the Sox in any meaningful way.

[Bellhorn04]

What does Wacha really have to do with the 2023 Sox or Bloom anyway? Pan him for not signing Wacha, but congratulate him for not signing deGrom or Rodon? Should we go down the list of all available FA and grade him on which guys he should or shouldn't have signed in hindsight?

 

Wacha was cheap, so that's one big distinction from deGrom and Rodon.

[Bellhorn04]

Does a .260 BABIPA?

 

A couple days ago I assumed alike had more throwing errors than Tampa, but didn’t verify it.

 

I went and verified it. Kike had 12 at the time; Tampa had 11.

 

Oh and San Diego had 14. Think Wacha’s 31% GB plays the same with the Sox infield?

 

Which totally bypasses my question about fWAR, which as I understand it is largely based on FIP.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Any discussion of ex-Red Sox players let go and new guys acquired for the big league roster the past four years is really all about the imbalanced Bloom Era. Optimists admitted everything had to go right this season, but so far Bloom hasn't discovered the fountain of youth, and his mad scientist department hasn't invented Herman Munsters out of bionic body parts.

 

In the end, it's all reflected by the won-loss record and the standings. But games above .500 doesn't matter in the cellar, if the four clubs ahead all make the playoffs. Last place can't in the AL East.

[mvp 78]

Wacha was cheap, so that's one big distinction from deGrom and Rodon.

 

Was Wacha seen as a TOP OF THE ROTATION STARTER this offseason? Wasn't that what we needed?

[Bellhorn04]

The people that are bringing him up aren't the ones saying he isn't good. The people that are bringing him up are doing so to say "why didn't Bloom re-sign him."

 

Bloom could have signed any number of FA SP's. There weren't any posters on here yelling from the rooftops that the Sox needed to sign Wacha while the guy was languishing in FA during ST. If Wacha is really a 180 IP, sub 3.00 ERA guy, he would have been worth a QO. NOBODY thought that was a good idea when it was brought up by moon last season.

 

Wacha isn't here. Who cares. Why keep going back to the one player doing well?

 

Xander has struggled since April. Vaz has been bad. I don't think we need to give Bloom flowers for letting those two guys go or pan him for not keeping Wacha in hindsight.

 

Xander has an fWAR of 2.1.

 

Can we at least try to use numbers that mean something?

[Bellhorn04]

Was Wacha seen as a TOP OF THE ROTATION STARTER this offseason? Wasn't that what we needed?

 

You'll have to ask Chaim that one.

[mvp 78]

Xander has an fWAR of 2.1.

 

Can we at least try to use numbers that mean something?

 

608 OPS since May 1. Seems not good for what he's getting paid?

[mvp 78]

You'll have to ask Chaim that one.

 

I was asking you. You made the distinction between him and deGrom and Rodon. If we signed Wacha and said "that's it for the offseason" I think fans would have been rightfully concerned.

[Bellhorn04]

608 OPS since May 1. Seems not good for what he's getting paid?

 

You mentioned he was playing with a sore wrist, I think, which is kind of typical of Xander. His O has been picking up the last few games.

 

Also, it's the whole freakin' season that counts. You seem to have become a cherry-picker extraordinaire.

[Bellhorn04]

I was asking you. You made the distinction between him and deGrom and Rodon. If we signed Wacha and said "that's it for the offseason" I think fans would have been rightfully concerned.

 

My main beef is with all the stuff about Wacha being lucky. Seems a little over the top. He has a fine WAR. Does WAR suck now?

[Dipre]

My main beef is with all the stuff about Wacha being lucky. Seems a little over the top. He has a fine WAR. Does WAR suck now?

 

Orlando Arcía, he of the .679 career OPS, is OPS'ing .853 and sitting pretty with a 1.7 fWar thus far, when his career high is 0.7. What's most likely? His numbers regressing to the norm, or him putting up a 4.0 WAR when he had a 642 game sample of utter suck that suggests this is not his level of production?

[Dipre]

My main beef is with all the stuff about Wacha being lucky. Seems a little over the top. He has a fine WAR. Does WAR suck now?

 

Orlando Arcía, he of the .679 career OPS, is OPS'ing .853 and sitting pretty with a 1.7 fWar thus far, when his career high is 0.7. What's more likely? His numbers regressing to the norm, or him putting up a 4.0 WAR when he had a 642 game sample of utter suck that suggests this is not his level of production?

[notin]

Wacha was cheap, so that's one big distinction from deGrom and Rodon.

 

But he’s not as cheap as you keep saying.

 

His $6.5mill AAV only lasts if the Padres decline his 2 yr $30mill team option and Wacha exercises his player option for the next 3 years.

 

So his $6.5mill AAV only lasts if he isn’t worth it…

[moonslav59]

He has an fWAR of 2.0 now. Does fWAR not weed out the luck factor enough?

 

Two years in a row.

 

I'm not so sure FIP works equally with all pitchers.

 

Low K pitchers who get weak contact more often are penalized.

 

[moonslav59]

But he’s not as cheap as you keep saying.

 

His $6.5mill AAV only lasts if the Padres decline his 2 yr $30mill team option and Wacha exercises his player option for the next 3 years.

 

So his $6.5mill AAV only lasts if he isn’t worth it…

 

What is it, if both say no?

[mvp 78]

But he’s not as cheap as you keep saying.

 

His $6.5mill AAV only lasts if the Padres decline his 2 yr $30mill team option and Wacha exercises his player option for the next 3 years.

 

So his $6.5mill AAV only lasts if he isn’t worth it…

 

If he has a 3 fWAR season, is there ANY chance he sits back and takes that player option?

[mvp 78]

My main beef is with all the stuff about Wacha being lucky. Seems a little over the top. He has a fine WAR. Does WAR suck now?

 

Is WAR good now? Isn't WAR only one tool that never paints the whole picture anyway? Aren't there several data points you need to provide to really identify how well a player is doing?

[moonslav59]

I'm not arguing "bad luck" or anything, and one could point to Wacha's previous numbers before 2022, but this has got to be driving Bloom nutty:

 

Martin Perez

4.65 BOS

3.36 TEX ('22-'23)

 

Jeffrey Springs

7.08 BOS

2.53 TBR

 

Nathan Eovaldi

4.05 BOS (20/33 GS last year)

2.49 TEX (13/13 GS this year, so far)

 

Connor Seabold

10.55 BOS (6 GS/21 IP)

4.70 COL (8GS/54 IP)

 

Michael Wacha

3.32 BOS

2.89 SDP (so far)

 

A little different tangent:

2019

3.81 ERod 34 GS (0 GS in 2020)

4.28 Price 22 GS (0 GS in 2020 for BOS & LAD)

4.40 Sale 25 GS (0 GS in 2020 and not much afterwards)

5.52 Porcello 32 GS (0 GS for anyone, afterwards)

That's zero GS'd from 113 GS'd from just these 4 guys!

 

There might be just as long a list of pitchers who did better with us, but I doubt by this much, under Bloom's range.

 

One could argue, Bloom saw the talent but missed on the timing. (He also really wanted Eflin (3.28 in 12 GS) and I think Heaney (4.05 in 13 GS) this past winter- just not enough to get them to sign with us.)

 

 

[dannycater]

"Is it really atrocious if they are above .500?!?!? Webster's defines atrocious as savagely wicked or cruel. It's not like we're Washington Nationals fans coming off a WS championship and going 172 - 278 (.382 %)."

 

 

So you are okay with mediocrity. Seems like a bunch of fans, regulars, on this forum are incredibly apologetic for the Sox becoming a small market joke. Rationalizing one franchise's s***** record to make the Sox s***** record now for a number of seasons as if it's acceptable. Listen, John Henry et al get their free pass (04,07,13,18)--an incredible run of WS titles in a short span..and I always applaud that about the franchise...but there is a point where post 2018 has to be better than what has occurred--there is a point where Bloom and his decision making has to be called into question..and frankly it's time to also move on from Cora, who will always have 2018, but like John Farrell it gets old when the team is playing last-place baseball. So dump Bloom, dump Cora, find a new voice in baseball operations and managership and let's turn this ship around. Sign some stars--yes sign some stars to rebuild around Devers, and quit pretending the Sox don't have money. This Tampa concept works in Tampa, not in Boston.

[moonslav59]

Is WAR good now? Isn't WAR only one tool that never paints the whole picture anyway? Aren't there several data points you need to provide to really identify how well a player is doing?

 

Indeed, but there does seem to be a consistent flaw in fWAR that penalizes pitch to contact pitchers who consistently get weaker contact than some higher K pitchers.

 

As long as we know that, we can "paint" our own picture, but in some ways, I think WAR was designed to minimize the needs for having to add other "data points." It tries to take that away, as much as possible.

 

Nobody uses it as the be-all-end-all, but how hard could it be to make adjustments for these type of pitchers, rare as they are?

[dannycater]

On a separate note, I remember when Moon made a giant case about the importance of catchers to a pitching staff, that a weak-hitting catcher who calls good games and increases the pitchers effectiveness is far more important--CWHIP...or something like that, but I have always felt that it was a good theory and not utilized enough in analysis of teams.