Fire Bloom .

[notin]

I agree. Ward is more egregious than Song and it's not really close. Even if Song works out, it's hard to justify banking on an unknown commodity like that.

 

One could argue Politi was a more egregious omission than Song.

 

Song - as we’ve heard - hasn’t pitched in 3 years and did so for 17IP in Lowell back when he was pitching. And since he didn’t even have his Navy clearance, he looked like he should be extremely safe from being taken. Politi, on the other hand, might have the looser ceiling, but he was right there on the cusp of becoming a mediocre MLB relief pitcher…

[mvp 78]

Frankly I think Hamilton is the biggest question mark. He’s fast and is an excellent base runner. And what else? He’s OK as a hitter and, per Soxprospects, nothing special defensively. I mean, even Jarren Duran excelled at hitting minor league pitching.

 

So what is Hamilton? The next Terrance Gore?

 

I get keeping Brasier and Ort over him. The Sox do need someone in the bullpen…

 

He's probably a better CFer than Duran after only a few professional innings.

 

If I was the CBO or GM, I wouldn't have put him on the 40 man...

[notin]

He's probably a better CFer than Duran after only a few professional innings.

 

If I was the CBO or GM, I wouldn't have put him on the 40 man...

 

I would have kept Ward over Hamilton and probably kept Politi over maybe Ort.

 

No way I would have added Song. I would have figured him to be safe from Rule 5 for a bunch of reasons.

 

And one thing I don’t even know about Song, if he was added to the 40 man while on the Military List, would he still lose the option year?

[Bellhorn04]

One could argue Politi was a more egregious omission than Song.

 

Song - as we’ve heard - hasn’t pitched in 3 years and did so for 17IP in Lowell back when he was pitching. And since he didn’t even have his Navy clearance, he looked like he should be extremely safe from being taken. Politi, on the other hand, might have the looser ceiling, but he was right there on the cusp of becoming a mediocre MLB relief pitcher…

 

From the moment Song was selected it was known that he might not be available for several years. I don't remember that being deemed as disastrous to him.

[mvp 78]

One could argue Politi was a more egregious omission than Song.

 

Song - as we’ve heard - hasn’t pitched in 3 years and did so for 17IP in Lowell back when he was pitching. And since he didn’t even have his Navy clearance, he looked like he should be extremely safe from being taken. Politi, on the other hand, might have the looser ceiling, but he was right there on the cusp of becoming a mediocre MLB relief pitcher…

 

The Rule 5 draft is specifically to swap mediocre relievers around MLB. Strong disagree with this assessment.

[Bellhorn04]

I would have kept Ward over Hamilton and probably kept Politi over maybe Ort.

 

No way I would have added Song. I would have figured him to be safe from Rule 5 for a bunch of reasons.

 

But if there was anyone who would take him, it would be Dombrowski...

[moonslav59]

If all this is the fodder used to justify Bloom's firing, things are getting tame, around here-- for now!

[notin]

But if there was anyone who would take him, it would be Dombrowski...

 

And if there is anyone who also would overlay heavily to keep him, it would also be Dombrowski…

[moonslav59]

If DD loves all his own players, we should trade Duran & Dalbec to Philly.

[Bellhorn04]

And if there is anyone who also would overlay heavily to keep him, it would also be Dombrowski…

 

How would he heavily overpay to keep him?

[Bellhorn04]

If DD loves all his own players, we should trade Duran & Dalbec to Philly.

 

Now there's a silly take.

[Bellhorn04]

The Rule 5 draft is specifically to swap mediocre relievers around MLB. Strong disagree with this assessment.

 

Sure seems like the Red Sox are doing what they can to make the Rule 5 draft a more interesting thing, with Whitlock, Ward and Song...

 

Get back to me on Monday on that.

[Old Red]

How would he heavily overpay to keep him?

 

Bottom line is the Red Sox knew it was going to be a long journey to get Song on the mound in a Red Sox uniform, and when it got near the end they got rid of him. Baseball sense? I don’t think so, and I hope Song turns out to be a good pitcher elsewhere.

[notin]

How would he heavily overpay to keep him?

 

I think a lot of people are not understanding how Rule 5 trades work. All the comments above seemed to think it was trading for Song. No a trade at this point will be getting something for Song.

 

And if Dombrowski wants to keep Song and do what’s actually best for Song (re:minors), he’ll unload a prospect for him. Because trading away farm pieces has never been an issue for Dombrowski, especially compared to other execs…

[Bellhorn04]

I think a lot of people are not understanding how Rule 5 trades work. All the comments above seemed to think it was trading for Song. No a trade at this point will be getting something for Song.

 

And if Dombrowski wants to keep Song and do what’s actually best for Song (re:minors), he’ll unload a prospect for him. Because trading away farm pieces has never been an issue for Dombrowski, especially compared to other execs…

 

You're right, I don't understand a lot of this Rule 5 stuff at all.

 

All I really know is that the Sox made it paid off handsomely with Whitlock, and I'm afeared the Nats and Phillies will do the same with Ward and Song. Yep, that about sums up my knowledge right there.

[notin]

You're right, I don't understand a lot of this Rule 5 stuff at all.

 

All I really know is that the Sox made it paid off handsomely with Whitlock, and I'm afeared the Nats and Phillies will do the same with Ward and Song. Yep, that about sums up my knowledge right there.

 

 

The freaking out over Song is so over the top. It really is. Not only has he not pitched in 3 years, back in 2020 many of the scouting orgs ranked him behind Jeter Downs, Bobby Dalbec and Gilberto Jimenez…

[Bellhorn04]

The freaking out over Song is so over the top. It really is. Not only has he not pitched in 3 years, back in 2020 many of the scouting orgs ranked him behind Jeter Downs, Bobby Dalbec and Gilberto Jimenez…

 

But did they downgrade him only because of inactivity?

 

Anyway, we'll see if you're right.

[notin]

But did they downgrade him only because of inactivity?

 

Anyway, we'll see if you're right.

 

 

That was 2020, when he wasn’t 3 years into inactivity. Heck he technically had not missed time yet. But let’s say they did. Shouldn’t they? By not pitching for 3 years and being completely away from baseball, did he likely get better or worse?

Edited February 25, 2023 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

That was 2020, when he wasn’t 3 years into inactivity. Heck he technically had not missed time yet. But let’s say they did. Shouldn’t they? By not pitching for 3 years and being completely away from baseball, did he likely get better or worse?

 

He got rusty, that's for sure.

 

But we see guys come back from TJ surgery who haven't faced hitters for almost 2 whole seasons and do well. There are plenty of examples of guys doing well after long layoffs.

 

Song's case is different because he's never faced MLB hitters to begin with, I realize that. He's an unknown quantity.

 

But I would have preferred that we be the ones to find out what he's got.

[Bellhorn04]

When the Sox took Whitlock, I'm pretty sure there weren't too many who thought he was going to pitch 73.1 innings with a 1.96 ERA and 2.9 bWAR...

 

When it comes to projecting young players, much of the time nobody knows s***.

[Old Red]

He got rusty, that's for sure.

 

But we see guys come back from TJ surgery who haven't faced hitters for almost 2 whole seasons and do well. There are plenty of examples of guys doing well after long layoffs.

 

Song's case is different because he's never faced MLB hitters to begin with, I realize that. He's an unknown quantity.

 

But I would have preferred that we be the ones to find out what he's got.

 

Agree, and we’ll find out who is right. DD, or Bloom.

[Bellhorn04]

Agree, and we’ll find out who is right. DD, or Bloom.

 

And if we did hold onto Song, and then found out he could pitch this year, I don't think the reaction would have been "Ah, who cares, the guy missed three years, he's toast." I think there would have been some excitement about it.

[moonslav59]

Not a single person on this site even mentioned Song as a slight possibility of needing to be protected. At the time, we thought his military restrictions made him ineligible to pitch in the Majors for 2023.

 

Roster slots are not something you just throw away on someone not even expected to be able to play.

 

I realize Song may end up better than Ort or Brasier or Hamilton, but let's get real, here. This was a blind-sided move by DD (and I still think someone tipped him off from the Navy,) that may still end up being a meaningless attempt at finding a gem.

 

The main difference, now is that DD needs to keep him on the 26, and we would have only needed to add him to our 40, back in December. It's much easier to "work around" that than the 26.

 

No doubt, it would hurt, if Song goes on to be special, but I'd still find it hard to blame the Sox for losing him. The Song situation is much different from the Whitlock or Ward ones. Both of them were know to be ready to pitch, eligible and somewhat promising based on larger and longer sample sizes.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

One thing Song has going for him -- compared to most pitchers with long layoffs -- is that he's not coming off an injury or surgery. Being in the military might also mean he kept himself physically fit.

 

Unless he hurt himself arm-wrestling at a pub or something, he's still young and strong... unlike old man Kluber, who just had his first full season since 2018. Kluber may have finally adjusted to Father Pitch-Clock -- or the Rays used up what he had left and said Thanks, seeya... similar to what we assume Bloom did with Wacha.

[moonslav59]

And if we did hold onto Song, and then found out he could pitch this year, I don't think the reaction would have been "Ah, who cares, the guy missed three years, he's toast." I think there would have been some excitement about it.

 

Agreed, and we could have provided him a minor league development progress, unlike Philly or whoever trades for him.

 

I really wanted to see what this guys still has.

 

No doubt, soxprospects.com has gotten many prospect rankings wrong, but they did place him 4th back in 2020- ahead of Ward, Groome, Houck, Dalbec, Murphy and Yorke. Only Casas, Downs and Mata were ahead of him.

 

(He fell to 11th in Nov 2020 and 18th a year later, before they removed him from even consideration.)

[Bellhorn04]

Not a single person on this site even mentioned Song as a slight possibility of needing to be protected.

 

Which means zero, frankly, moon. Most of us know jackshit about all the vagaries of roster rules. I didn't even know he needed to be protected.

 

It's Bloom's job to know all this stuff. And if it came as a big surprise to him that Song could pitch this year, that just means he got caught napping.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Bellhorn04

[moonslav59]

Which means zero, frankly, moon. Most of us know jackshit about all the vagaries of roster rules. I didn't even know he needed to be protected.

 

Not to even have one person mention his name means nobody should be bitching, now, IMO.

 

Many posters named names and discussed borderline prospects. Nobody mentioned Song.

 

We all knew if we didn't protect him, he could be taken. That's all that's needed to be known.

 

We all assumed his status as ineligible was to continue. Frankly, it would have been absurd to protect him. Had we protected him, and he not became eligible, we'd be hearing bitching about keeping him over Ward or Politi.

 

You know that is a fact.

 

Now, for posters who do not pay any attention to Rule 5 and didn't even know who was eligible or not, I guess I could see how they might get upset, if Song ends up being the next Whitlock, but to me, that criticism rings hollow.

Edited February 25, 2023 by moonslav59

[notin]

He got rusty, that's for sure.

 

But we see guys come back from TJ surgery who haven't faced hitters for almost 2 whole seasons and do well. There are plenty of examples of guys doing well after long layoffs.

 

Song's case is different because he's never faced MLB hitters to begin with, I realize that. He's an unknown quantity.

 

But I would have preferred that we be the ones to find out what he's got.

 

At some point I wonder if Sox fans will realize what we lost in this year’s Rule 5 draft

 

Noah Song - turns 26 in May. 17 career IP in low A ball.

Thad Ward - already 26. 41 career IP above A-ball, all in AA.

Andrew Politi - also 26. Played every minor league level, but only impressed in AAA.

 

Not so sure we lost anything better than Jay Groome here…

[moonslav59]

At some point I wonder if Sox fans will realize what we lost in this year’s Rule 5 draft

 

Noah Song - turns 26 in May. 17 career IP in low A ball.

Thad Ward - already 26. 41 career IP above A-ball, all in AA.

Andrew Politi - also 26. Played every minor league level, but only impressed in AAA.

 

Not so sure we lost anything better than Jay Groome here…

 

There is a very large probability none of these guys will amount to squat.

[notin]

There is a very large probability none of these guys will amount to squat.

 

A bunch of 26yo pitchers with almost no AAA experience and very little AA experience (and even less success). We may get 2 of them back. (Make your pick.)

 

Granted, I’m still not wild about Ort and Hamilton…