Fire Bloom .

[randywatson]

Don't forget he allowed Kyle schwarber to leave as well......

[S5Dewey]

I think moon was trying to reference Wilyer Abreu but goofed on the last name. https://www.milb.com/player/wilyer-abreu-677800

 

His entire career has been 5 years in the Minors. That's even worse than Willy.

 

The best thing that can be said about him is that he has enough Frequent Flier miles to go anyplace he wants for the rest of his life

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=abreu-002wil

[S5Dewey]

Yup. Wilyer Abreu: king of walks.

 

Not some slouch prospect.

 

Nice to have... but often difficult to work into a lineup.

[Bellhorn04]

Don't forget he allowed Kyle schwarber to leave as well......

 

By "allowed to leave" what you really mean is "didn't outbid Philly's offer of $79 million for 4 years".

[mvp 78]

His entire career has been 5 years in the Minors. That's even worse than Willy.

 

The best thing that can be said about him is that he has enough Frequent Flier miles to go anyplace he wants for the rest of his life

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=abreu-002wil

 

He's only played in 2 organizations. All young players play for a bunch of teams, especially if you start off down in the DSL.

[Old Red]

By "allowed to leave" what you really mean is "didn't outbid Philly's offer of $79 million for 4 years".

 

Do we know if Bloom even made an offer?

[moonslav59]

Do we know if Bloom even made an offer?

 

Yes, a lifetime deal at $78.9M.

 

[moonslav59]

Ok...

McGuire is a .225 hitting backup catcher.

 

Acquiring Pham was made necessary by signing JBJ and not signing Schwarber - and those are both on Bloom.

 

Hosmer is probably the pick of the litter in a litter of ugly pups. He filled a spot they were needing this year but there are plenty of better 1B around if the Sox want to upgrade there. Like maybe Casas..only cheaper?

 

Willy Abar? A 40 year old infielder? This was supposed to be an upgrade??

 

Ferguson and Rosier are both prospects as is Groome. This is a sideways move and for a struggling team "sideways" doesn't get the job done.

Did I leave anybody out?

 

Of course we now are lacking a first string catcher who was pretty good while he was here but is maligned now that he's gone. He's not the second coming of Johnny Bench but the last I checked having a pretty good catcher is pretty darn important. Doubt it? Ask the pitchers.

 

So... to answer your question of "C or worse?"... Maybe a C since I'm in a good mood but C is average and when I see my cellar dwelling team with a big market make a trade I expect more than a C.

 

My question was more about the winter moves, but I do think Bloom won the deadline moves, too- slightly on 2022 and bigly on 2023 and beyond, on paper.

 

If McGuire works out, we save a ton of money at catcher and maybe even improve.

 

Hosmer is free, and even if DFA'd, I think I'd take Ferguson & Roiser over Groome.

 

E Valdez and W Abreu look like better prospects than Binelas & Hamilton. Oh wait, did I just say that out loud?

 

Wacha, Hill, Strahm and Refsnyder outweigh JBJ. It's not even close, IMO.

 

I can understand not calling it highly "intelligent," but the additions were a plus. For various reasons, it just didn't work out.

[Old Red]

Yes, a lifetime deal at $78.9M.

 

 

I never heard that Bloom offered a deal to Schwarber, or to Suzuki either.

[mvp 78]

Yes, a lifetime deal at $78.9M.

 

 

Horrible AAV. No wonder he wouldn't take it.

[mvp 78]

I never heard that Bloom offered a deal to Schwarber, or to Suzuki either.

 

He didn't offer one to Schwarber. Ownership never confirmed they made an offer to Suzuki, but reports said that they were in on him. Reports never had them in on Schwarber.

[moonslav59]

I never heard that Bloom offered a deal to Schwarber, or to Suzuki either.

 

Just heard "interest in" rumors.

 

We might never know, if any real offer was made. Probably, if the sides seemed too far apart, no offer was made.

 

[mvp 78]

Just heard "interest in" rumors.

 

We might never know, if any real offer was made. Probably, if the sides seemed too far apart, no offer was made.

 

 

Ownership is not going to ever give a full listing of all the offers that they have put out so certain fans will never be pleased.

[moonslav59]

Ownership is not going to ever give a full listing of all the offers that they have put out so certain fans will never be pleased.

 

Agreed.

 

I think many times official offers are never made, because the first call shows a vast disparity in what a first offer might even look like.

 

No offer does not mean there was no effort or keen interest.

 

Bloom obviously liked Schwarber. He traded for him. (BTW, wasn't Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber a good deal by our "out of his league" GM?)

 

We had JD at $22M. We'd have had to construct a complex platoon and rotation system to get everybody the PAs they seemed to deserve after 2021. In hindsight, Dalbec sucked, so badly, Schwarber could have had all the 1B PAs and a few in LF as Dugo could have ousted JBJ in RF, but at the time, it looked very complicated.

[mvp 78]

Agreed.

 

I think many times official offers are never made, because the first call shows a vast disparity in what a first offer might even look like.

 

No offer does not mean there was no effort or keen interest.

 

Bloom obviously liked Schwarber. He traded for him. (BTW, wasn't Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber a good deal by our "out of his league" GM?)

 

We had JD at $22M. We'd have had to construct a complex platoon and rotation system to get everybody the PAs they seemed to deserve after 2021. In hindsight, Dalbec sucked, so badly, Schwarber could have had all the 1B PAs and a few in LF as Dugo could have ousted JBJ in RF, but at the time, it looked very complicated.

 

It only looked complicated because we assumed they'd try to stay under the cap. They didn't.

 

I think he could have platooned with Dalbec and had some DH AB's.

 

Regardless, putting Renfroe and Schwarber on the 2022 team doesn't make them a playoff team.

[moonslav59]

It only looked complicated because we assumed they'd try to stay under the cap. They didn't.

 

I think he could have platooned with Dalbec and had some DH AB's.

 

Regardless, putting Renfroe and Schwarber on the 2022 team doesn't make them a playoff team.

 

I don't think they liked the idea of turning an .819 OPS twenty-six year old player with 33 HRs and 62 XBHs in his first 566 PAs into a platoon player. I wasn't talking about the complex tax budget issue. (BTW, if we signed Schwarber not Story, we'd have been real close to resetting.)

 

With Dugo in LF, Kike in CF and Renfroer or JBJ in RF, I don't see them thinking one needed to sit- despite Schwarber being a clearly better hitter than all 3- maybe combined.

 

In hindsight, sitting Dalbec or JBJ became the choice, anyway.

 

No doubt, I'd love to have had Schwarber on the team. I suggested we try and find a way to trade JD, but that did not seem very realistic, and at what cost would that have been?

 

I will now take this opportunity to speak about those who just seem to despise all high K batters. Schwarber led the league in Ks with 200 in 577 ABs, but he also led the league in HRs and sported a decent .323 OBP. I'll say it again, if you get the job done, 300Ks is okay with me.

[notin]

His entire career has been 5 years in the Minors. That's even worse than Willy.

 

The best thing that can be said about him is that he has enough Frequent Flier miles to go anyplace he wants for the rest of his life

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=abreu-002wil

 

Abreu is 23. It’s not uncommon for players signing at 18 to spend 5+ years o on the minors. Willy Aybar himself did not get called up until he was well into his sixth session of minor league ball…

[moonslav59]

Abreu is 23. It’s not uncommon for players signing at 18 to spend 5+ years o on the minors. Willy Aybar himself did not get called up until he was well into his sixth session of minor league ball…

 

Abreu may very well not amount to anything much at the big league level, but I like the odds of at least one from E Valdez and W Abreu making a meaningful contribution, someday.

[notin]

Do we know if Bloom even made an offer?

 

We know he didn’t go above 4 years $79mill. Nothing else matters…

[notin]

Abreu may very well not amount to anything much at the big league level, but I like the odds of at least one from E Valdez and W Abreu making a meaningful contribution, someday.

 

Even if that contribution is just being good enough for another team to accept in a trade…

[moonslav59]

Even if that contribution is just being good enough for another team to accept in a trade…

 

That, too, but there are lots of prospects that may be traded, instead.

[Bellhorn04]

I will now take this opportunity to speak about those who just seem to despise all high K batters. Schwarber led the league in Ks with 200 in 577 ABs, but he also led the league in HRs and sported a decent .323 OBP. I'll say it again, if you get the job done, 300Ks is okay with me.

 

I agree with that in principle, but I think in reality there's an upper limit to how high your K rate can be before you're completely helpless.

[notin]

I agree with that in principle, but I think in reality there's an upper limit to how high your K rate can be before you're completely helpless.

 

I’ll take a hitter leading the league in Ks if he also leads the league in walks…

[moonslav59]

I agree with that in principle, but I think in reality there's an upper limit to how high your K rate can be before you're completely helpless.

 

Yes, in reality nobody Ks over 250 times and has a great offensive season. I was just talking theory.

 

Here are the highest K% since 1922 with a fWAR over 1.9:

 

4. 36.8% Gallo in 2017 2.8 fWAR

8. 35.9% Gallo in 2018 3.1

11. 34.6% Gallo in 2021 4.2

13. 34.4% Story in 2017 1.9

16. 34.2% Dunn in 2012 2.1

18. 33.7% Reynolds 2009 3.3

20. 33.6% J Baez in 2021 4.0

24. 32.9% Cust in 2008 2.1

25. 32.9% C Davis in 2016 2.2

26. 32.9% R Deer in 1987 2.2

28. 32.5% Chapman in 2021 4.1

31. 32.4% Napoli in 2013 3.4

32. 32.3% Cust in 2007 2.8

34. 32.3% J Hernandez in 2002 4.5

 

Other biggies w 30+ K%+:

45. 31.3% Tyler O'Neill in 2021 5.6

50. 31.2% E Suarez in 2022 4.1

53. 31.0% C Davis in 2015 5.4

60. 30.7% Judge in 2017 8.7

63. 30.6% K Bryant in 2015 6.1

 

Most Ks in a season:

223 Mark Reynolds in 2009 (.260 44 102)

222 Adam Dunn in 2012 (.204 41 96)

219 Chris Davis in 2016 (.221 38 84)

217 Yoan Moncada in 2018 (.235 17 61)

213 Joey Gallo in 2021 (.199 38 77)

212 Chris Carter in 2013 (.223 29 82)

211 G Stanton in 2018 (.266 38 100)

211 Mark Reynolds in 2010 .198 32 85)

Edited November 3, 2022 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

I’ll take a hitter leading the league in Ks if he also leads the league in walks…

 

I'd take it with top 30 in BBs.

[moonslav59]

I’ll take a hitter leading the league in Ks if he also leads the league in walks…

 

In 2017 Aaron Judge led the league in

 

Ks 208

BBs 127

HRs 52

Runs 128

 

He had a .422 OBP and 1.049 OPS.

[MADSTORK]

Abreu may very well not amount to anything much at the big league level, but I like the odds of at least one from E Valdez and W Abreu making a meaningful contribution, someday.

 

Good luck

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, in reality nobody Ks over 250 times and has a great offensive season. I was just talking theory.

 

I know. You have a fondness for dabbling in hypotheticals that I don't really share. I find making sense of reality hard enough, without bringing all the "what-ifs" into it LOL

[Bellhorn04]

Most Ks in a season:

223 Mark Reynolds in 2009 (.260 44 102)

222 Adam Dunn in 2012 (.204 41 96)

219 Chris Davis in 2016 (.221 38 84)

217 Yoan Moncada in 2018 (.235 17 61)

213 Joey Gallo in 2021 (.199 38 77)

212 Chris Carter in 2013 (.223 29 82)

211 G Stanton in 2018 (.266 38 100)

211 Mark Reynolds in 2010 .198 32 85)

 

Mark Reynolds was a pretty successful swisher, wasn't he?

[mvp 78]

Even if that contribution is just being good enough for another team to accept in a trade…

 

Yes, especially since they most likely were going to lose Vaz at the end of the year and they were GRACIOUS to allow Vaz a PLAYOFF run where he could catch a no hitter in the World Series. They could have held onto him and forced him to stick it out on a horrible last place team. Nope, they released him from this misery. Though so people on here would claim that the Sox did him dirty...