Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Example the Pittsburg pirates have a really good farm system and a not so good team

 

Example: the Astros are where they are because of their farm.

 

When Verlander was on the IL, they had 6 homegrown starters in the rotation.

[Bobe2]

That's understood, but you have to look after the future as well as the present, or the present will really start to suck.

 

Look at it this way, if you continue to trade mlb players for nothing but prospects that’s what you end up with nothing but prospects , he’s not getting mlb ready players to put on the field, that’s why you have Dalbec and Cordero on first and a steady stream of minor leaguers coming threw, he got rid of the talent that was mlb ready, so in effect it’s already sucking

[Bobe2]

Example: the Astros are where they are because of their farm.

 

When Verlander was on the IL, they had 6 homegrown starters in the rotation.

 

How many pitchers did we call up this year 6,8,10 and most of them left a lot to be desired

[mvp 78]

How many pitchers did we call up this year 6,8,10 and most of them left a lot to be desired

 

Bello 2.48 ERA 8/24 - 9/25, will be in the rotation in 2023 GREAT

Crawford 3.33 ERA 6/12 - 8/13 as starter over 9 games and 54 innings, GOOD

Kelly 2.13 ERA 8/29-9/29, probably earned MLB spot for 23 GOOD

Winckowski up and down, was projected as back end starter at best, had his moments FAIR

Ort overall numbers took a beating because of the TOR appearance where he was left in too long, but is a taxi squad bullpen guy at best DFA MATERIAL

German throws hard but has no secondary pitch, will start in AAA in 23 IN PROGRESS

Bastardo numbers looked good, but peripherals weren't impressive ALREADY DFA'D

Seabold rough year dealing with injuries and inconsitency, seems to be a AAAA guy TRADE BAIT

[notin]

The resetting isn't really that big of a deal in itself. Like I said before, it just means they have to reset in 2024 and 2027 instead of 2025 and 2028.

 

A plan to spend/spend/reset isn't a great plan anyway, arguably.

 

Or - crazy thought - maybe they’ll just try to stay under and never have to reset…

[mvp 78]

When young pitchers first come up, they typically struggle a little:

 

Steve Avery 1990: 3-11, 5.64 ERA

Tom Glavine 1987: 2-4, 5.54 ERA

Greg Maddux 1986-7: 8-18, 5.60 ERA

John Smoltz 1988: 2-7, 5.48 ERA

 

I'm not saying the Sox farm will produce anything like the 90's Braves, just that guys that come up from the farm tend to take a little while to mature. The comment about the young pitchers "left a lot to be desired" is kind of jumping the gun IMO.

[notin]

How many pitchers did we call up this year 6,8,10 and most of them left a lot to be desired

 

This statement could apply to 90% of the teams in MLB, if not all of them…

[Bobe2]

This statement could apply to 90% of the teams in MLB, if not all of them…

 

Your not telling me anything I don’t already know, good pitching is usually gotten in free agency,

[dgalehouse]

You can build a winning team through your farm , through free agent signings or through trades. You do need to be a good judge of talent or very lucky to succeed. But every guy on your team is a product of a farm system , either yours or someone else's. I have no problem with trading prospects for established players.

[dgalehouse]

This statement could apply to 90% of the teams in MLB, if not all of them…

 

Only a select few of them were able to finish in last place. Nice job , Chaim.

[Bobe2]

Bello 2.48 ERA 8/24 - 9/25, will be in the rotation in 2023 GREAT

Crawford 3.33 ERA 6/12 - 8/13 as starter over 9 games and 54 innings, GOOD

Kelly 2.13 ERA 8/29-9/29, probably earned MLB spot for 23 GOOD

Winckowski up and down, was projected as back end starter at best, had his moments FAIR

Ort overall numbers took a beating because of the TOR appearance where he was left in too long, but is a taxi squad bullpen guy at best DFA MATERIAL

German throws hard but has no secondary pitch, will start in AAA in 23 IN PROGRESS

Bastardo numbers looked good, but peripherals weren't impressive ALREADY DFA'D

Seabold rough year dealing with injuries and inconsitency, seems to be a AAAA guy TRADE BAIT

I’m impressed not by the Sox but you took the time to look all that up

[notin]

Your not telling me anything I don’t already know, good pitching is usually gotten in free agency,

 

Have you seen the Astros?

 

What pitcher did they acquire via free agency? Even Verlander was acquired via trade.

 

And free agency is probably the worst way to try to acquire pitching. Too often it involves paying pitchers in their 30s heavy salaries for what they did in their 20s.

 

I’d rather explore the trade markets. There are always quality pitchers out there whose arbitration prices are exceeding their team’s budgets…

[Bobe2]

When young pitchers first come up, they typically struggle a little:

 

Steve Avery 1990: 3-11, 5.64 ERA

Tom Glavine 1987: 2-4, 5.54 ERA

Greg Maddux 1986-7: 8-18, 5.60 ERA

John Smoltz 1988: 2-7, 5.48 ERA

 

I'm not saying the Sox farm will produce anything like the 90's Braves, just that guys that come up from the farm tend to take a little while to mature. The comment about the young pitchers "left a lot to be desired" is kind of jumping the gun IMO.

Kelly and Crawford were ready for call up, where Bello, German and Ort were not ready and should have another year of AAA to get rid of the undesirable habits and learn to pitch the right way, and the rest are just the rest

[Bobe2]

Have you seen the Astros?

 

What pitcher did they acquire via free agency? Even Verlander was acquired via trade.

 

And free agency is probably the worst way to try to acquire pitching. Too often it involves paying pitchers in their 30s heavy salaries for what they did in their 20s.

 

I’d rather explore the trade markets. There are always quality pitchers out there whose arbitration prices are exceeding their team’s budgets…

That won’t do the Sox any good everybody’s arbitration price exceeds the Red Sox budget unless you go dumpster diving

[Bellhorn04]

Or - crazy thought - maybe they’ll just try to stay under and never have to reset…

 

Always being just under the first cap would be the ideal.

[notin]

That won’t do the Sox any good everybody’s arbitration price exceeds the Red Sox budget unless you go dumpster diving

 

Not even remotely true.

 

Not sure why you think free agency - where players can set their own prices and negotiate with multiple teams - is cheaper than arbitration, where players have to justify their raises to a third party and do better than the team justifying a lesser raise.

 

And you really can’t go dumpster diving in the arbitration process as that involves the cheaper players that the cheaper trans want to keep. Now I’m free agency…

Edited November 4, 2022 by notin

[notin]

Kelly and Crawford were ready for call up, where Bello, German and Ort were not ready and should have another year of AAA to get rid of the undesirable habits and learn to pitch the right way, and the rest are just the rest

 

Ort is 30.

 

He doesn’t need more AAA; he needs to get used to living as a career minor leaguer…

[notin]

Only a select few of them were able to finish in last place. Nice job , Chaim.

 

You would enjoy being a Tigers’ fan.

 

Sure the team only won 66 games. BUT THEY DIDN’T FINISH IN LAST!!

 

And isn’t that all that matters?

[Bobe2]

Not even remotely true.

 

Not sure why you think free agency - where players can set their own prices and negotiate with multiple teams - is cheaper than arbitration, where players have to justify their raises to a third party and do better than the team justifying a lesser raise.

 

And you really can’t go dumpster diving in the arbitration process as that involves the cheaper players that the cheaper trans want to keep. Now I’m free agency…

 

I don’t think it’s cheaper I even know Verlander was traded for it was just a choice of words, but most of the top quality pitchers come from free agency because teams realize their worth and don’t trade them, instead use up their minor league contract then let them go to free agency or trade them at end of contract in effect giving a team a rental and letting someone else pay them

[Bobe2]

Ort is 30.

 

He doesn’t need more AAA; he needs to get used to living as a career minor leaguer…

 

Want to bet he’s on next years 40 man, he’s Blooms kind of guy, old and cheap he’d be perfect if he could just get injured as well

[notin]

Want to bet he’s on next years 40 man, he’s Blooms kind of guy, old and cheap he’d be perfect if he could just get injured as well

 

Old and injured isn’t Dombrowski’s type?

 

He is the one who signed Eovaldi and Sale.

 

Ort will be DFAd before the Rule 5 draft. Book it…

[mvp 78]

Your not telling me anything I don’t already know, good pitching is usually gotten in free agency,

 

No.

[mvp 78]

Kelly and Crawford were ready for call up, where Bello, German and Ort were not ready and should have another year of AAA to get rid of the undesirable habits and learn to pitch the right way, and the rest are just the rest

 

Bello was just about ready. He was sent back down at one point, but came back up and was much better the second time around.

 

Ort really isn't anything of note. Like I said, he's DFA material.

 

German is NOT ready. He is a one pitch pitcher right now. He can get MiLB hitters out, but I don't think he's ready for MLB.

[Bobe2]

No.

 

Unless you bring a pitcher through your system and the Sox are notoriously bad at this, or have players to trade for pitching and the Sox don’t have the extra high quality prospects to trade because they need them to field a team. You won’t find them on the waiver wire, other than free agency I don’t know where your going to get them

[moonslav59]

How many pitchers did we call up this year 6,8,10 and most of them left a lot to be desired

 

Oh, you were talking about only the Sox farm never winning a WS.

 

I guess Betts, Bogey, Devers and others were from some other farm

[S5Dewey]

You can build a winning team through your farm , through free agent signings or through trades. You do need to be a good judge of talent or very lucky to succeed. But every guy on your team is a product of a farm system , either yours or someone else's. I have no problem with trading prospects for established players.

 

While I recognize that Bill James isn't everyone's cup of tea I still like much of what he said. At the very onset of Free Agency he said that free agency is going to help teams that need one or two players to get over the top - teams that are built through their farm system but are lacking in one position or two - but teams that depend on free agency for their players are going to find that it doesn't work.*

I'm paraphrasing that, of course. I don't have the direct quote nor the time nor the inclination to find it.

 

*Cue up some poster who researches the past 50 years of baseball to find an isolated incident to "prove" James is wrong while ignoring the times he was right.

[moonslav59]

Your not telling me anything I don’t already know, good pitching is usually gotten in free agency,

 

By the Sox, yes, mostly.

 

Other teams have won rings with their farm and farm arms. That was the point I was making.

[moonslav59]

Old and injured isn’t Dombrowski’s type?

 

He is the one who signed Eovaldi and Sale.

 

Ort will be DFAd before the Rule 5 draft. Book it…

 

I think he makes it until our 2nd or 3rd FA signing.

[Bobe2]

Oh, you were talking about only the Sox farm never winning a WS.

 

I guess Betts, Bogey, Devers and others were from some other farm

 

You misunderstood I said a farm team has never won a World Series that the big league team has to play the games, all it means is you need more than a farm system you need a good team with solid players before you can win anything, I don’t believe Betts Bogey and Devers were still considered minor leagers

Edited November 4, 2022 by Bobe2

[Bellhorn04]

You misunderstood I said a farm team has never won a World Series that the big league team has to play the games, all it means is you need more than a farm system you need a good team with solid players before you can win anything

 

You're certainly correct about that. It was just kind of an ambiguous statement.

 

Good to see you posting more BTW.