Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Again, that makes no sense. If Bloom had the right instincts about Springs, he wouldn't have sold low on him.

 

Low? He got Ronaldo Hernandez for him!

 

Certainly, he is better than Sam Travis!

 

My point is, Bloom saw something in Perez and Springs to think maybe he'd get a gem in the rough. He wasn't totally wrong about that. He just missed by a year or two.

 

One could argue that had Ben gotten they 2016 seasons from HRam and Porcello in 2015, he'd have been the GM at least a year longer.

 

Sometimes, timing is everything.

[mvp 78]

It's not that he "missed" Springs, it's that he wasn't patient enough for Springs.

[notin]

It's not that he "missed" Springs, it's that he wasn't patient enough for Springs.

 

My point.

[moonslav59]

It's not that he "missed" Springs, it's that he wasn't patient enough for Springs.

 

And, maybe the "miss" doesn't look as bad as it did when we had him.

 

Bloom was not wrong about the guy having talent.

[Bellhorn04]

It's not that he "missed" Springs, it's that he wasn't patient enough for Springs.

 

My point.

 

Mine too.

 

Not trying to crucify Bloom just for trading Springs, but our pitching was horrible this year, and Springs was good.

[Bellhorn04]

And, maybe the "miss" doesn't look as bad as it did when we had him.

 

Bloom was not wrong about the guy having talent.

 

All these guys have talent.

[Bobe2]

Low? He got Ronaldo Hernandez for him!

 

Certainly, he is better than Sam Travis!

 

My point is, Bloom saw something in Perez and Springs to think maybe he'd get a gem in the rough. He wasn't totally wrong about that. He just missed by a year or two.

 

One could argue that had Ben gotten they 2016 seasons from HRam and Porcello in 2015, he'd have been the GM at least a year longer.

 

Sometimes, timing is everything.

 

Renaldo Hernandez is a minor league free agent he has said he wants a big league contract and doesn’t care where it is, so if he leaves then Bloom got nothing, probably why he picked up a dfa’d catcher from the Twins, just what we need 4 catchers on the 40 man

[Bobe2]

Low? He got Ronaldo Hernandez for him!

 

Certainly, he is better than Sam Travis!

 

My point is, Bloom saw something in Perez and Springs to think maybe he'd get a gem in the rough. He wasn't totally wrong about that. He just missed by a year or two.

 

One could argue that had Ben gotten they 2016 seasons from HRam and Porcello in 2015, he'd have been the GM at least a year longer.

 

Sometimes, timing is everything.

 

Renaldo Hernandez is a minor league free agent he has said he wants a big league contract and doesn’t care where it is, so if he leaves then Bloom got nothing, pro

bably why he picked up a dfa’d catcher from the Twins, just what we need 4 catchers on the 40 man instead of saving a spot to protect a prospect from the rule 5

[notin]

Renaldo Hernandez is a minor league free agent he has said he wants a big league contract and doesn’t care where it is, so if he leaves then Bloom got nothing, pro

bably why he picked up a dfa’d catcher from the Twins, just what we need 4 catchers on the 40 man instead of saving a spot to protect a prospect from the rule 5

 

Getting nothing for the expanded Sam Travis trade doesn’t bother me.

 

A lot of these 40 man spots will be worked out after the WS when the Sox have to add prospects (most notably Rafaela, Ward and Walter) along with injured players like Sale, Houck and msybe Taylor.

 

Of course by then, a few spots will open up from free agency, too, like JD, Eovaldi, Strahm, and maybe Bogaerts if nothing is worked out…

[Bellhorn04]

Renfroe and Springs appear to be two examples of Bloom making a good move and then rather quickly negating it with a bad move.

 

One thing that worries me about him is a possible tendency toward being a little too unconventional or clever...sometimes being conventional is not a bad thing.

[notin]

Renfroe and Springs appear to be two examples of Bloom making a good move and then rather quickly negating it with a bad move.

 

One thing that worries me about him is a possible tendency toward being a little too unconventional or clever...sometimes being conventional is not a bad thing.

 

When Springs got traded, I think the overwhelming response was surprise anyone gave up anything for him at all. I’m not going to pretend I saw anything in him. Interesting that you already call moving Springs a bad move. Shouldn’t Hernandez get the same chance you’re calling out Bloom for not giving to Springs?

 

Renfroe looked like a “sell high” move that improved the defense. I do think a big part of moving Renfroe was interest in Seiya Suzuki for RF. And again - early. While Binelas’ .630 OPS in AA at age 23 probably isn’t inspiring, at the same age, Renfroe posted a .670 OPS in AA. So again, is it already a bad move? What if Binelas is Renfroe 2.0?

Edited October 15, 2022 by notin

[moonslav59]

Renaldo Hernandez is a minor league free agent he has said he wants a big league contract and doesn’t care where it is, so if he leaves then Bloom got nothing, pro

bably why he picked up a dfa’d catcher from the Twins, just what we need 4 catchers on the 40 man instead of saving a spot to protect a prospect from the rule 5

 

Just because we added som eone, doesn't mean they will be on the 40 for long.

[moonslav59]

When Springs got traded, I think the overwhelming response was surprise anyone gave up anything for him at all. I’m not going to pretend I saw anything in him. Interesting that you already call moving Springs a bad move. Shouldn’t Hernandez get the same chance you’re calling out Bloom for not giving to Springs?

 

Renfroe looked like a “sell high” move that improved the defense. I do think a big part of moving Renfroe was interest in Seiya Suzuki for RF. And again - early. While Binelas’ .630 OPS in AA at age 23 probably isn’t inspiring, at the same age, Renfroe posted a .670 OPS in AA. So again, is it already a bad move? What if Binelas is Renfroe 2.0?

 

Most mid tier prospect trades get mentioned, later on. When you make a lot of them, you hope or even expect one to work out in our favor. Bloom has made many more that bring us the mid to lower tier prospects than ones that give them away- not the Springs and Mazza were "prospects". The jury is still out on almost all of them, but it is a bummer that one of the few that went the other way produced a guy like Springs.

 

We have traded away Springs, Chavis, Groome, Mazza, Aldo Ramirez, Scherff, Northcut and a few others.

 

We have brought in...

 

Wong

Downs

German

E Valdez & W Abreu

Binelas & Hamilton

Seabold

Winckowski

R Hernandez

C Koss

J Wallace

H Potts

de la Rosa, F Valdez & G Gambrel

Ferguson & Rosier

 

I'm sure there are more known players I've forgotten.

[notin]

Renaldo Hernandez is a minor league free agent he has said he wants a big league contract and doesn’t care where it is, so if he leaves then Bloom got nothing, pro

bably why he picked up a dfa’d catcher from the Twins, just what we need 4 catchers on the 40 man instead of saving a spot to protect a prospect from the rule 5

 

I’m pretty sure this statement applies to nearly every, if not every player in the minors…

Edited October 15, 2022 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

When Springs got traded, I think the overwhelming response was surprise anyone gave up anything for him at all. I’m not going to pretend I saw anything in him. Interesting that you already call moving Springs a bad move. Shouldn’t Hernandez get the same chance you’re calling out Bloom for not giving to Springs?

 

Renfroe looked like a “sell high” move that improved the defense. I do think a big part of moving Renfroe was interest in Seiya Suzuki for RF. And again - early. While Binelas’ .630 OPS in AA at age 23 probably isn’t inspiring, at the same age, Renfroe posted a .670 OPS in AA. So again, is it already a bad move? What if Binelas is Renfroe 2.0?

 

I was definitely looking at things through a cranky 2022 filter.

 

As far as the Springs trade is concerned, the fact that none of us saw anything in him is irrelevant. We're not the ones who get paid to make the moves. The Rays must have seen something in him. And if Bloom is going to get credit for a pickup like Schreiber, as he should, he also has to take the heat for giving up a guy who has a good season, like Springs did.

[notin]

I was definitely looking at things through a cranky 2022 filter.

 

As far as the Springs trade is concerned, the fact that none of us saw anything in him is irrelevant. We're not the ones who get paid to make the moves. The Rays must have seen something in him. And if Bloom is going to get credit for a pickup like Schreiber, as he should, he also has to take the heat for giving up a guy who has a good season, like Springs did.

 

 

Fair, but if you think he gave up on Springs too early, doesn’t Hernandez get a chance, too? Maybe he did get a good deal…

[Bellhorn04]

Fair, but if you think he gave up on Springs too early, doesn’t Hernandez get a chance, too? Maybe he did get a good deal…

 

Like I said, I was mainly looking at 2022.

 

Springs has a BTV of 17.5. Hernandez has a BTV of 2.5.

 

BTV says we got our ass kicked in the trade.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[moonslav59]

I was definitely looking at things through a cranky 2022 filter.

 

As far as the Springs trade is concerned, the fact that none of us saw anything in him is irrelevant. We're not the ones who get paid to make the moves. The Rays must have seen something in him. And if Bloom is going to get credit for a pickup like Schreiber, as he should, he also has to take the heat for giving up a guy who has a good season, like Springs did.

 

Of course. GMs are always graded in hindsight.

 

The way I see it, I'm encouraged by seeing that Bloom saw glimmers of hope in guys like Springs and Martin Perez, but just got the timing wrong.

[mvp 78]

Of course. GMs are always graded in hindsight.

 

The way I see it, I'm encouraged by seeing that Bloom saw glimmers of hope in guys like Springs and Martin Perez, but just got the timing wrong.

 

I'm concerned that they had this guy in house for months and then just let him go. Sure, they liked the metrics enough to bring him in, but the in house guys just didn't like what they saw while he was here? He ended up producing after the SSS of 2020. Seems like a big mistake by Bloom IMO.

[moonslav59]

I'm concerned that they had this guy in house for months and then just let him go. Sure, they liked the metrics enough to bring him in, but the in house guys just didn't like what they saw while he was here? He ended up producing after the SSS of 2020. Seems like a big mistake by Bloom IMO.

 

I don't disagree, but they did get a promising catcher for Springs and Mazza.

 

My point is that I'd rather see my GM bringing in guys that later showed skills than swinging and missing on everyone.

 

If every under the radar guy he brought in never played well the year we got them or afterwards, wouldn't that show your GM is worse than the one who missed on timing?

 

I get your point, though. If he saw talent, why give up on it, but you know, many players have a ton of talent and never break through. There is only so long you can stick with a guy who is not producing. We gave Perez two seasons.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't disagree, but they did get a promising catcher for Springs and Mazza.

 

My point is that I'd rather see my GM bringing in guys that later showed skills than swinging and missing on everyone.

 

If every under the radar guy he brought in never played well the year we got them or afterwards, wouldn't that show your GM is worse than the one who missed on timing?

 

I get your point, though. If he saw talent, why give up on it, but you know, many players have a ton of talent and never break through. There is only so long you can stick with a guy who is not producing. We gave Perez two seasons.

 

Perez is more of a WTF anomaly, because his previous seasons with Texas did not indicate he was capable of his 2022 season either.

[mvp 78]

Perez is more of a WTF anomaly, because his previous seasons with Texas did not indicate he was capable of his 2022 season either.

 

He's just not getting barreled and he's throwing his sinker more again. A lot of his other metrics are the same again. I think hitters will have a bounce back year against him next season.

[mvp 78]

I don't disagree, but they did get a promising catcher for Springs and Mazza.

 

I can kind of see your point. However, Hernandez still isn't a very good catcher (part of the reason they claimed defensive minded Caleb Hamilton) and only OPS'd 748 at WOO last season as a bat first guy. He's 24 and next year is really make or break for him here. If he doesn't really mash next season, he's gone. He's the 32nd ranked prospect and seems to drop every time the Sox Prospects guys re-rank the system.

[notin]

I can kind of see your point. However, Hernandez still isn't a very good catcher (part of the reason they claimed defensive minded Caleb Hamilton) and only OPS'd 748 at WOO last season as a bat first guy. He's 24 and next year is really make or break for him here. If he doesn't really mash next season, he's gone. He's the 32nd ranked prospect and seems to drop every time the Sox Prospects guys re-rank the system.

 

 

Really it looks like that deal was a worthwhile gamble that they lost on. I don’t mind that so much. I also think that finding the Springs/Schreiber types might even be a repeatable skill for this office and they can do it again…

[notin]

Perez is more of a WTF anomaly, because his previous seasons with Texas did not indicate he was capable of his 2022 season either.

 

Perez looks like he just has a career year…

[notin]

I'm concerned that they had this guy in house for months and then just let him go. Sure, they liked the metrics enough to bring him in, but the in house guys just didn't like what they saw while he was here? He ended up producing after the SSS of 2020. Seems like a big mistake by Bloom IMO.

 

There is also the possibility that they were not as overly wild about Springs as we are all assuming, and he was simply the best (only?) player that could be had for Sam Travis…

[Bellhorn04]

There is also the possibility that they were not as overly wild about Springs as we are all assuming, and he was simply the best (only?) player that could be had for Sam Travis…

 

That's not the issue. The issue is basically that the Rays saw something we didn't.

[moonslav59]

That's not the issue. The issue is basically that the Rays saw something we didn't.

 

I think we did "see something" to get him in the first place. We just lost patience and/or like R hernandez's hopes better.

[Bellhorn04]

I think we did "see something" to get him in the first place. We just lost patience and/or like R hernandez's hopes better.

 

Of course, losing patience doesn't really cut it as a reason.

 

The disappointing thing is that Bloom's biggest strength is supposed to be pitching.

[mvp 78]

There is also the possibility that they were not as overly wild about Springs as we are all assuming, and he was simply the best (only?) player that could be had for Sam Travis…

 

NESN spent considerable effort that year painting Springs as a solution as a late inning arm. Speier and others regaled us about his spin rate on his changeup. Springs had a top 5% whiff rate in 2020. There was a lot of communication from the organization about Springs being a valuable arm, while you never heard about Osich, Mazza, Covey, et al. They seemed to really like the guy.