Fire Bloom .

[Old Red]

With the metrics people, it's all about numbers and probabilities . They don't consider the psychology involved in the game.

 

That’s why Joe Madden said they need to come down to the dugout to see what really goes on.

[moonslav59]

It's one of those things that some people don't buy into, but hitting with RISP is considered by metrics people to be a "clutch" skill that is not repeatable.

 

Even "Mr. Clutch," himself, Big Papi had very similar career number (.931) and career w RISP (.943). Late & Close, he was at .871, but of course his playoff numbers were an astoundingly similar .947. (Not sure what his late & Close playoff numbers were.)

 

Speaking of Papi, a nice trivia question: What was the only season Papi led the league in OPS?

 

His last one: 2016!

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Here are all the SP'ers signed over the off season:

Story was signed on March 20th.

Sale was placed on 60 Day IL on April 4th and was previously believed to be possibly missing a few starts, only.

 

STARTING PITCHERS

 

Max Scherzer (37, 7.2 WAR) -- Signed 3-year deal with NYM (Dec. 1)

Kevin Gausman (31, 6.4) -- Signed 5-year deal with TOR (Nov. 30)

Carlos Rodón (29, 5.0) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (March 14)

Clayton Kershaw (34, 4.8) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 13)

Eduardo Rodriguez (29, 3.8) -- Signed 5-year deal with DET (Nov. 16)

Robbie Ray (30, 3.5) -- Signed 5-year deal with SEA (Nov. 30)

Zack Greinke (38, 3.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with KC (March 16)

Marcus Stroman (30, 3.4) -- Signed 3-year deal with CHC (Dec. 1)

Alex Cobb (34, 3.1) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Nov. 30)

Anthony DeSclafani (32, 3.0) -- Signed 3-year deal with SF (Nov. 22)

Tyler Anderson (32, 2.8) -- Signed 1-deal with LAD (March 18)

Jon Gray (30, 2.7) -- Signed 4-year deal with TEX (Dec. 1)

Michael Pineda (33, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with DET (March 19)

Alex Wood (31, 2.5) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Dec. 1)

Andrew Heaney (31, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (Nov. 10)

Rich Hill (42, 2.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1)

Yusei Kikuchi (31, 2.2) -- Signed 3-year deal with TOR (March 14)

Danny Duffy (33, 2.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 17)

Steven Matz (31, 2.1) -- Signed 4-year deal with STL (Nov. 29)

Dylan Bundy (29, 2.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (Dec. 1)

Johnny Cueto (36, 2.0) -- Signed MiLB deal with CWS (April 8)

Kwang Hyun Kim (33, 1.8) -- Signed with KBO team (March 7)

Garrett Richards (34, 1.7) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 20)

Brett Anderson (34, 1.5)

Corey Kluber (36, 1.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with TB (Dec. 1)

Matt Harvey (33, 1.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (April 8)

Zach Davies (29, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with ARI (March 24)

Matthew Boyd (31, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with SF (March 20)

Drew Smyly (33, 1.3) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 19)

J.A. Happ (39, 1.1)

Michael Wacha (30, 1.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Nov. 27)

Martín Pérez (31, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 14)

Steven Brault (30, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 22)

Trevor Cahill (33, 0.9)

Wily Peralta (33, 0.7) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 16)

Tommy Milone (35, 0.6)

Chris Ellis (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (March 16)

José Quintana (33, 0.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with PIT (Nov. 29)

Aaron Sanchez (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 16)

Vince Velasquez (30, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with CWS (March 14)

James Paxton (33, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1)

Mike Fiers (37, 0.3)

Chi Chi González (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with MIN (March 20)

José Ureña (30, 0.3)

Jon Lester (38, 0.3) -- Retired

Carlos Martínez (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with SF (March 20)

Chris Archer (33, 0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (March 28)

Aníbal Sánchez (38, 0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 14)

Cole Hamels (38, 0.1)

Ervin Santana (39, 0.1)

Jhoulys Chacín (34, 0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (Nov. 13)

Sean Nolin (32, 0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Jan. 8)

Justin Verlander (39, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with HOU (Dec. 1)

Noah Syndergaard (29, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAA (Nov. 16)

Wade LeBlanc (37, 0.0) -- Retired

Ivan Nova (35, -0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Dec. 20)

Thomas Eshelman (28, -0.1) -- Signed MiLB deal with SD (March 20)

Chad Kuhl (29, -0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (March 16)

Scott Kazmir (38, -0.2)

Matt Moore (33, -0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with TEX (March 14)

Jordan Lyles (31, -0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with BAL (March 12)

Jake Arrieta (36, -0.2) -- Retired

Chase Anderson (34, -0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 14)

Tanner Roark (35, -0.7)

Matt Shoemaker (35, -0.7) -- Signed with NPB team (Feb. 5)

Julio Teheran (31, -0.9)

Mike Foltynewicz (30, -1.1)

Félix Hernández (36, N/A)

Jasseel De La Cruz (25, N/A) -- Signed MiLB deal with ATL (March 13)

 

There were a few pitcher around when we signed Story. I can see arguing we could have signed pitchers not Story, but I don't recall anyone suggesting any one who was signed after April 4th.

 

Wacha's WAR of 1.1 seems awfully low. But, then, I'm not a big fan of WAR.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Here are all the SP'ers signed over the off season:

Story was signed on March 20th.

Sale was placed on 60 Day IL on April 4th and was previously believed to be possibly missing a few starts, only.

 

STARTING PITCHERS

 

Max Scherzer (37, 7.2 WAR) -- Signed 3-year deal with NYM (Dec. 1)

Kevin Gausman (31, 6.4) -- Signed 5-year deal with TOR (Nov. 30)

Carlos Rodón (29, 5.0) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (March 14)

Clayton Kershaw (34, 4.8) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 13)

Eduardo Rodriguez (29, 3.8) -- Signed 5-year deal with DET (Nov. 16)

Robbie Ray (30, 3.5) -- Signed 5-year deal with SEA (Nov. 30)

Zack Greinke (38, 3.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with KC (March 16)

Marcus Stroman (30, 3.4) -- Signed 3-year deal with CHC (Dec. 1)

Alex Cobb (34, 3.1) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Nov. 30)

Anthony DeSclafani (32, 3.0) -- Signed 3-year deal with SF (Nov. 22)

Tyler Anderson (32, 2.8) -- Signed 1-deal with LAD (March 18)

Jon Gray (30, 2.7) -- Signed 4-year deal with TEX (Dec. 1)

Michael Pineda (33, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with DET (March 19)

Alex Wood (31, 2.5) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Dec. 1)

Andrew Heaney (31, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (Nov. 10)

Rich Hill (42, 2.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1)

Yusei Kikuchi (31, 2.2) -- Signed 3-year deal with TOR (March 14)

Danny Duffy (33, 2.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 17)

Steven Matz (31, 2.1) -- Signed 4-year deal with STL (Nov. 29)

Dylan Bundy (29, 2.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (Dec. 1)

Johnny Cueto (36, 2.0) -- Signed MiLB deal with CWS (April 8)

Kwang Hyun Kim (33, 1.8) -- Signed with KBO team (March 7)

Garrett Richards (34, 1.7) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 20)

Brett Anderson (34, 1.5)

Corey Kluber (36, 1.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with TB (Dec. 1)

Matt Harvey (33, 1.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (April 8)

Zach Davies (29, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with ARI (March 24)

Matthew Boyd (31, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with SF (March 20)

Drew Smyly (33, 1.3) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 19)

J.A. Happ (39, 1.1)

Michael Wacha (30, 1.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Nov. 27)

Martín Pérez (31, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 14)

Steven Brault (30, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 22)

Trevor Cahill (33, 0.9)

Wily Peralta (33, 0.7) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 16)

Tommy Milone (35, 0.6)

Chris Ellis (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (March 16)

José Quintana (33, 0.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with PIT (Nov. 29)

Aaron Sanchez (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 16)

Vince Velasquez (30, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with CWS (March 14)

James Paxton (33, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1)

Mike Fiers (37, 0.3)

Chi Chi González (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with MIN (March 20)

José Ureña (30, 0.3)

Jon Lester (38, 0.3) -- Retired

Carlos Martínez (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with SF (March 20)

Chris Archer (33, 0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (March 28)

Aníbal Sánchez (38, 0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 14)

Cole Hamels (38, 0.1)

Ervin Santana (39, 0.1)

Jhoulys Chacín (34, 0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (Nov. 13)

Sean Nolin (32, 0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Jan. 8)

Justin Verlander (39, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with HOU (Dec. 1)

Noah Syndergaard (29, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAA (Nov. 16)

Wade LeBlanc (37, 0.0) -- Retired

Ivan Nova (35, -0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Dec. 20)

Thomas Eshelman (28, -0.1) -- Signed MiLB deal with SD (March 20)

Chad Kuhl (29, -0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (March 16)

Scott Kazmir (38, -0.2)

Matt Moore (33, -0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with TEX (March 14)

Jordan Lyles (31, -0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with BAL (March 12)

Jake Arrieta (36, -0.2) -- Retired

Chase Anderson (34, -0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 14)

Tanner Roark (35, -0.7)

Matt Shoemaker (35, -0.7) -- Signed with NPB team (Feb. 5)

Julio Teheran (31, -0.9)

Mike Foltynewicz (30, -1.1)

Félix Hernández (36, N/A)

Jasseel De La Cruz (25, N/A) -- Signed MiLB deal with ATL (March 13)

 

There were a few pitcher around when we signed Story. I can see arguing we could have signed pitchers not Story, but I don't recall anyone suggesting any one who was signed after April 4th.

 

Wacha's WAR of 1.1 seems awfully low. But, then, I'm not a big fan of WAR. i'm a peace lovin' guy.

[moonslav59]

Wacha's WAR of 1.1 seems awfully low. But, then, I'm not a big fan of WAR. i'm a peace lovin' guy.

 

Those were the 2021 WAR numbers you damn pinko!

 

🤪

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Those were the 2021 WAR numbers you damn pinko!

 

 

Sorry. But I still hate WAR.

[cp176]

The one thing I struggle with who to blame is the decision on Houck and Whitlock. Both of those guys were kind of put into pitching purgatory again this season with neither having an idea if they'd be a starter or reliever. They both got yanked around from day one and both wound up with injuries. Related?

 

And this might be one of my biggest gripes about Alex Cora. Every player should not be treated like a utility player. learning to play one position at any level is hard enough. it is extremely difficult at the major league level. he flip flops repeatedly and I just don't like it. he does it with pitchers as well as position players.

[moonslav59]

Sorry. But I still hate WAR.

 

WAR still loves you.

[moonslav59]

And this might be one of my biggest gripes about Alex Cora. Every player should not be treated like a utility player. learning to play one position at any level is hard enough. it is extremely difficult at the major league level. he flip flops repeatedly and I just don't like it. he does it with pitchers as well as position players.

 

1,000 injuries sometimes forces this, but I agree.

[Bellhorn04]

I intentionally didn't use the C word, because in the ghost runner age, all that's needed is for the first batter to make freaking contact. A hit isn't necessary to move the runner to third... and then there are many ways to score him with what is often the winning run.

 

Bunting, slashing, just choking up and putting the ball in play -- actually are repeatable skills... with reps of practice, of course.

 

I'll put up some numbers on these matters tomorrow.

[Maxbialystock]

Here are all the SP'ers signed over the off season:

Story was signed on March 20th.

Sale was placed on 60 Day IL on April 4th and was previously believed to be possibly missing a few starts, only.

 

STARTING PITCHERS

 

Max Scherzer (37, 7.2 WAR) -- Signed 3-year deal with NYM (Dec. 1)

Kevin Gausman (31, 6.4) -- Signed 5-year deal with TOR (Nov. 30)

Carlos Rodón (29, 5.0) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (March 14)

Clayton Kershaw (34, 4.8) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 13)

Eduardo Rodriguez (29, 3.8) -- Signed 5-year deal with DET (Nov. 16)

Robbie Ray (30, 3.5) -- Signed 5-year deal with SEA (Nov. 30)

Zack Greinke (38, 3.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with KC (March 16)

Marcus Stroman (30, 3.4) -- Signed 3-year deal with CHC (Dec. 1)

Alex Cobb (34, 3.1) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Nov. 30)

Anthony DeSclafani (32, 3.0) -- Signed 3-year deal with SF (Nov. 22)

Tyler Anderson (32, 2.8) -- Signed 1-deal with LAD (March 18)

Jon Gray (30, 2.7) -- Signed 4-year deal with TEX (Dec. 1)

Michael Pineda (33, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with DET (March 19)

Alex Wood (31, 2.5) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Dec. 1)

Andrew Heaney (31, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (Nov. 10)

Rich Hill (42, 2.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1)

Yusei Kikuchi (31, 2.2) -- Signed 3-year deal with TOR (March 14)

Danny Duffy (33, 2.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 17)

Steven Matz (31, 2.1) -- Signed 4-year deal with STL (Nov. 29)

Dylan Bundy (29, 2.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (Dec. 1)

Johnny Cueto (36, 2.0) -- Signed MiLB deal with CWS (April 8)

Kwang Hyun Kim (33, 1.8) -- Signed with KBO team (March 7)

Garrett Richards (34, 1.7) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 20)

Brett Anderson (34, 1.5)

Corey Kluber (36, 1.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with TB (Dec. 1)

Matt Harvey (33, 1.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (April 8)

Zach Davies (29, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with ARI (March 24)

Matthew Boyd (31, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with SF (March 20)

Drew Smyly (33, 1.3) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 19)

J.A. Happ (39, 1.1)

Michael Wacha (30, 1.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Nov. 27)

Martín Pérez (31, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 14)

Steven Brault (30, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 22)

Trevor Cahill (33, 0.9)

Wily Peralta (33, 0.7) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 16)

Tommy Milone (35, 0.6)

Chris Ellis (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (March 16)

José Quintana (33, 0.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with PIT (Nov. 29)

Aaron Sanchez (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 16)

Vince Velasquez (30, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with CWS (March 14)

James Paxton (33, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1)

Mike Fiers (37, 0.3)

Chi Chi González (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with MIN (March 20)

José Ureña (30, 0.3)

Jon Lester (38, 0.3) -- Retired

Carlos Martínez (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with SF (March 20)

Chris Archer (33, 0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (March 28)

Aníbal Sánchez (38, 0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 14)

Cole Hamels (38, 0.1)

Ervin Santana (39, 0.1)

Jhoulys Chacín (34, 0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (Nov. 13)

Sean Nolin (32, 0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Jan. 8)

Justin Verlander (39, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with HOU (Dec. 1)

Noah Syndergaard (29, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAA (Nov. 16)

Wade LeBlanc (37, 0.0) -- Retired

Ivan Nova (35, -0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Dec. 20)

Thomas Eshelman (28, -0.1) -- Signed MiLB deal with SD (March 20)

Chad Kuhl (29, -0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (March 16)

Scott Kazmir (38, -0.2)

Matt Moore (33, -0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with TEX (March 14)

Jordan Lyles (31, -0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with BAL (March 12)

Jake Arrieta (36, -0.2) -- Retired

Chase Anderson (34, -0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 14)

Tanner Roark (35, -0.7)

Matt Shoemaker (35, -0.7) -- Signed with NPB team (Feb. 5)

Julio Teheran (31, -0.9)

Mike Foltynewicz (30, -1.1)

Félix Hernández (36, N/A)

Jasseel De La Cruz (25, N/A) -- Signed MiLB deal with ATL (March 13)

 

There were a few pitcher around when we signed Story. I can see arguing we could have signed pitchers not Story, but I don't recall anyone suggesting any one who was signed after April 4th.

 

Just about everyone on that list except Wacha had a lower ERA this year than last year.

[moonslav59]

Just about everyone on that list except Wacha had a lower ERA this year than last year.

 

Lower?

[Old Red]

12 games left, and 6 games under 500. 9-3 will get you there. Not going to happen this year.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yanks take the next two and they can also mathematically knock the Sox out of playoffs

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yanks take the next two and they can also mathematically knock the Sox out of playoffs

 

Well, they already failed scientifically and geographically, and withdrew philosophically. They even flunked gym class.

 

But Kike swears Chaim told him they're going to hire new tutors this winter so they can prepare to retake the entrance exam into the AL East next spring.

[Old Red]

Well, they already failed scientifically and geographically, and withdrew philosophically. They even flunked gym class.

 

But Kike swears Chaim told him they're going to hire new tutors this winter so they can prepare to retake the entrance exam into the AL East next spring.

Maybe we could petition to get into a weaker Div, so we wouldn’t look so bad especially since the O’s don’t look like a bottom feeder anymore.

[moonslav59]

This team has been bad- no doubt, at least when compared to top teams like the AL East is stacked with plus Houston.

 

I guess I don't see what any tiny bit of optimism needs to be squashed, immediately and thoroughly.

 

Did anyone really expect the farm system to be fully re-stocked in a year?

 

Worse, does anyone think a re built farm should start infusing players onto the b ig club year one?

 

We are now seeing the results of the farm built 3-6 years ago. Houck, Dalbec, Crawford, and recently Bello. Whitlock, Wink and recently German are the first Bloom "prospects" to come into the bigs, and they had to be acquired by trade or Rule 5 to get here so quickly.

 

Years of low draft picks, penalties due to cheating and trading away a large chunk of the farm has come full circle. Expecting miracles is not realistic.

 

Some seem to think the solution is to repeat the cycle, again. Trade promising prospects to get back to the glory days of 2026-2018. Some think JH has to just change his formula, which has brought us more rings than any point in Sox history over the last 100 years. All he has to do is spend more- maybe way more.

 

Some think some sort of combination is needed, or that Bloom has to hit on 80-90% of his expenditures and additions, something I'm thinking no GM has ever done.

 

This team is bad. There is no sugar coating that. I've watched the Astros more, this year, than ever before. It's easy to see we are far from their level. That being said, I don't think we are quite as bad as many feel we are or as our record indicates. We play the toughest schedule in MLB and are 18th in W-L%. We are a half game behind MN for 17th and 1.5 behind SFG for 16th. We are 3.5 games behind being in the top half of the league (CWS.) That's really not horrific, but it's scary when you figure we are on the cusp of losing some key players from those glory years: Bogey, Nate, JD and possibly Devers, the following season.

 

I'm frustrated, too. I'm disappointed, too. I had much higher hopes for this team than they showed us. The massive injuries in key areas, like pitching, CF and 2B, seemingly all at once, taxed a system not yet deep enough to handle that strain. I still expected better, and I was probably unrealistic, too. Many of us were fooled by 2021's promise. We took that team and added Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Strahm and Hill, but somehow got worse.

 

The JBJ trade hurt like hell, and to some, outweighed the gains by Wacha and the others I just listed. I hated the deal from the first second it was done. Many did. More mistakes were made than just that one, and Bloom and Cora deserve to be called out on each and every one. There is a lengthy list of grievances that are worthy of criticism- some more so than others, but in my opinion the main priority Bloom and Cora were given- was to rebuild the system- bottom up, while trying to maintain the perception and reality of being a somewhat competitive team. They failed in 2020, which was certainly understandable, given the budget JH laid on Bloom and Sale & ERod missing the whole season. They failed in 2022, when most of us have been expecting steady improvement from year-to year.

 

Should we have? I think the vast majority of Sox fans, think yes, especially when the budget has been increasing since 2020's low point. I don't disagree, but I also see context is needed. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, here are just some of the significant contexts involved:

 

1. Aging stars in decline, but hard to trade or be given lesser roles.

2. A limited budget weighed down by pre-Bloom heft contracts giving back litte to no returns.

3. A homegrown farm that has given us just Houck, Dalbec and Crawford, since DD departed. A farm that, other than (big) maybe Bello, Mata and German, may not give us much in 2024, either.

4. A spate of injuries that defied anyone's worst expectations, and seemingly, all at once.

5. The rise of divisional foes that outpaced and rise we might have shown, had we been in another division. The O's have proven the are for real. The Jays did not reach expectations, but they have built up, mostly by costly additions, but certainly a lot of home grown talent, that were acquired through the drafts and IFA 3-6 years ago, I might add. They Rays remain the Rays, and the Yanks became a juggernaut for much of the season.

6. Expected continuation or improvements from pre-prime and prime players failed to materialize. Bogey, Devers and Vaz improved or stayed about the same as 2023, but nearly everyone else declined- some by a ton, an d not just because of missed time due to injuries- many sucked when healthy, too.

Plawecki was never great on offense, but he dropped over 150 points in OPS *0 from career).

Dalbec dropped over 150 points from 2021 and his career mark before '22.

JD dropped 100 points from '21 and 150 from his previous 4 yrs w BOS.

Dugo dropped 40 points from 2021 and 60 from his previous career mark.

The RBI drops by Bogey and JD, when we really needed more, hurt, too.

While Cordero & Arroyo may have done better off the bench than before, it wasn't enough.

Nate dropped off.

Barnes dropped off.

Whitlock and Houck did fine, but injuries and other factors negated any gains.

Sawamura, Davis and Robles declined so much, they are no longer here.

Sale was Sale, again.

 

It was a major confluence of bad luck and bad play that seemed to feed off each other, giving us one of the worst seasons, based on prior expectations since 2019- maybe even more than 2019.

 

I'm not happy at all with the 2022 Sox, but I do think there is reason to be optimistic going forward. The farm looks stronger- much stronger. The 40 man roster is much deeper than 2020 and even 2021. Yes, we lose some key players, but we also lose Price's money and should be able to improve on JD's 2022 numbers with his $22M. It won't be easy to replace the pre-2022 Nate, but $17M should be able to more than replace the 2022 Nate.

 

Replacing Wacha, Bogey and even Hill and Strahm at their contractual levels will be harder and the key to our hopes in 2024. Bringing Bogey back just keeps us even, and maybe for a just a couple more years, before he may start declining. Brining Wacha back will cost way more and may not get us the same 2022 results.

 

It's not going to be an easy off season for Bloom & Co, but he should have a budget nearly double anyone he has had to date (counting the Kike extension.)

 

I'm cautiously optimistic we will reach glory again. Hopefully in 2023 but more likely afterwards.

 

[Old Red]

This team has been bad- no doubt, at least when compared to top teams like the AL East is stacked with plus Houston.

 

I guess I don't see what any tiny bit of optimism needs to be squashed, immediately and thoroughly.

 

Did anyone really expect the farm system to be fully re-stocked in a year?

 

Worse, does anyone think a re built farm should start infusing players onto the b ig club year one?

 

We are now seeing the results of the farm built 3-6 years ago. Houck, Dalbec, Crawford, and recently Bello. Whitlock, Wink and recently German are the first Bloom "prospects" to come into the bigs, and they had to be acquired by trade or Rule 5 to get here so quickly.

 

Years of low draft picks, penalties due to cheating and trading away a large chunk of the farm has come full circle. Expecting miracles is not realistic.

 

Some seem to think the solution is to repeat the cycle, again. Trade promising prospects to get back to the glory days of 2026-2018. Some think JH has to just change his formula, which has brought us more rings than any point in Sox history over the last 100 years. All he has to do is spend more- maybe way more.

 

Some think some sort of combination is needed, or that Bloom has to hit on 80-90% of his expenditures and additions, something I'm thinking no GM has ever done.

 

This team is bad. There is no sugar coating that. I've watched the Astros more, this year, than ever before. It's easy to see we are far from their level. That being said, I don't think we are quite as bad as many feel we are or as our record indicates. We play the toughest schedule in MLB and are 18th in W-L%. We are a half game behind MN for 17th and 1.5 behind SFG for 16th. We are 3.5 games behind being in the top half of the league (CWS.) That's really not horrific, but it's scary when you figure we are on the cusp of losing some key players from those glory years: Bogey, Nate, JD and possibly Devers, the following season.

 

I'm frustrated, too. I'm disappointed, too. I had much higher hopes for this team than they showed us. The massive injuries in key areas, like pitching, CF and 2B, seemingly all at once, taxed a system not yet deep enough to handle that strain. I still expected better, and I was probably unrealistic, too. Many of us were fooled by 2021's promise. We took that team and added Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Strahm and Hill, but somehow got worse.

 

The JBJ trade hurt like hell, and to some, outweighed the gains by Wacha and the others I just listed. I hated the deal from the first second it was done. Many did. More mistakes were made than just that one, and Bloom and Cora deserve to be called out on each and every one. There is a lengthy list of grievances that are worthy of criticism- some more so than others, but in my opinion the main priority Bloom and Cora were given- was to rebuild the system- bottom up, while trying to maintain the perception and reality of being a somewhat competitive team. They failed in 2020, which was certainly understandable, given the budget JH laid on Bloom and Sale & ERod missing the whole season. They failed in 2022, when most of us have been expecting steady improvement from year-to year.

 

Should we have? I think the vast majority of Sox fans, think yes, especially when the budget has been increasing since 2020's low point. I don't disagree, but I also see context is needed. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, here are just some of the significant contexts involved:

 

1. Aging stars in decline, but hard to trade or be given lesser roles.

2. A limited budget weighed down by pre-Bloom heft contracts giving back litte to no returns.

3. A homegrown farm that has given us just Houck, Dalbec and Crawford, since DD departed. A farm that, other than (big) maybe Bello, Mata and German, may not give us much in 2024, either.

4. A spate of injuries that defied anyone's worst expectations, and seemingly, all at once.

5. The rise of divisional foes that outpaced and rise we might have shown, had we been in another division. The O's have proven the are for real. The Jays did not reach expectations, but they have built up, mostly by costly additions, but certainly a lot of home grown talent, that were acquired through the drafts and IFA 3-6 years ago, I might add. They Rays remain the Rays, and the Yanks became a juggernaut for much of the season.

6. Expected continuation or improvements from pre-prime and prime players failed to materialize. Bogey, Devers and Vaz improved or stayed about the same as 2023, but nearly everyone else declined- some by a ton, an d not just because of missed time due to injuries- many sucked when healthy, too.

Plawecki was never great on offense, but he dropped over 150 points in OPS *0 from career).

Dalbec dropped over 150 points from 2021 and his career mark before '22.

JD dropped 100 points from '21 and 150 from his previous 4 yrs w BOS.

Dugo dropped 40 points from 2021 and 60 from his previous career mark.

The RBI drops by Bogey and JD, when we really needed more, hurt, too.

While Cordero & Arroyo may have done better off the bench than before, it wasn't enough.

Nate dropped off.

Barnes dropped off.

Whitlock and Houck did fine, but injuries and other factors negated any gains.

Sawamura, Davis and Robles declined so much, they are no longer here.

Sale was Sale, again.

 

It was a major confluence of bad luck and bad play that seemed to feed off each other, giving us one of the worst seasons, based on prior expectations since 2019- maybe even more than 2019.

 

I'm not happy at all with the 2022 Sox, but I do think there is reason to be optimistic going forward. The farm looks stronger- much stronger. The 40 man roster is much deeper than 2020 and even 2021. Yes, we lose some key players, but we also lose Price's money and should be able to improve on JD's 2022 numbers with his $22M. It won't be easy to replace the pre-2022 Nate, but $17M should be able to more than replace the 2022 Nate.

 

Replacing Wacha, Bogey and even Hill and Strahm at their contractual levels will be harder and the key to our hopes in 2024. Bringing Bogey back just keeps us even, and maybe for a just a couple more years, before he may start declining. Brining Wacha back will cost way more and may not get us the same 2022 results.

 

It's not going to be an easy off season for Bloom & Co, but he should have a budget nearly double anyone he has had to date (counting the Kike extension.)

 

I'm cautiously optimistic we will reach glory again. Hopefully in 2023 but more likely afterwards.

 

 

Your optimism is more tied to 40 man rosters, and the farm system, and if the team has gone all in on any certain year, and that is good for you. On the other hand like myself I’m more concerned on here, and now, which is good for me. Once again two entirely different philosophies, and the old different strokes for different folks.

[moonslav59]

Your optimism is more tied to 40 man rosters, and the farm system, and if the team has gone all in on any certain year, and that is good for you. On the other hand like myself I’m more concerned on here, and now, which is good for me. Once again two entirely different philosophies, and the old different strokes for different folks.

 

Well, when you think about 2023, it's hard to use the here and now philosophy, especially with so many players from the now becoming FAs.

 

Next year's team will be very different from this year's team. It kinda has to be.

 

Again, I understand your point of view and that many feel like you do. I'm not sure why you keep having to say it, but I do appreciate your change in tone towards me. I'm trying hard to keep my tone more civil, too, towards you and others.

 

Thanks.

[Old Red]

Well, when you think about 2023, it's hard to use the here and now philosophy, especially with so many players from the now becoming FAs.

 

Next year's team will be very different from this year's team. It kinda has to be.

 

Again, I understand your point of view and that many feel like you do. I'm not sure why you keep having to say it, but I do appreciate your change in tone towards me. I'm trying hard to keep my tone more civil, too, towards you and others.

 

Thanks.

I thought we had a great relationship, and even talked about doing a talk show together. It doesn’t get any better than that.

[moonslav59]

Your optimism is more tied to 40 man rosters, and the farm system, and if the team has gone all in on any certain year, and that is good for you. On the other hand like myself I’m more concerned on here, and now, which is good for me. Once again two entirely different philosophies, and the old different strokes for different folks.

 

At one point, Betts, Bogey, Devers, Beni, and others were on the farm. No Sox team has ever won without major contributions from the farm that was built up 3-6b years prior to their accomplishments and success.

 

There is always a lag between building up a farm and seeing the results in the "here and now."

 

Patiences is needed. If you jump the gun and trade them most away for the "here and now," and you end up with the 2020-2022 Sox, 3-6 years from now.

[oldtimer]

This team has been bad- no doubt, at least when compared to top teams like the AL East is stacked with plus Houston.

 

I guess I don't see what any tiny bit of optimism needs to be squashed, immediately and thoroughly.

 

Did anyone really expect the farm system to be fully re-stocked in a year?

 

Worse, does anyone think a re built farm should start infusing players onto the b ig club year one?

 

We are now seeing the results of the farm built 3-6 years ago. Houck, Dalbec, Crawford, and recently Bello. Whitlock, Wink and recently German are the first Bloom "prospects" to come into the bigs, and they had to be acquired by trade or Rule 5 to get here so quickly.

 

Years of low draft picks, penalties due to cheating and trading away a large chunk of the farm has come full circle. Expecting miracles is not realistic.

 

Some seem to think the solution is to repeat the cycle, again. Trade promising prospects to get back to the glory days of 2026-2018. Some think JH has to just change his formula, which has brought us more rings than any point in Sox history over the last 100 years. All he has to do is spend more- maybe way more.

 

Some think some sort of combination is needed, or that Bloom has to hit on 80-90% of his expenditures and additions, something I'm thinking no GM has ever done.

 

This team is bad. There is no sugar coating that. I've watched the Astros more, this year, than ever before. It's easy to see we are far from their level. That being said, I don't think we are quite as bad as many feel we are or as our record indicates. We play the toughest schedule in MLB and are 18th in W-L%. We are a half game behind MN for 17th and 1.5 behind SFG for 16th. We are 3.5 games behind being in the top half of the league (CWS.) That's really not horrific, but it's scary when you figure we are on the cusp of losing some key players from those glory years: Bogey, Nate, JD and possibly Devers, the following season.

 

I'm frustrated, too. I'm disappointed, too. I had much higher hopes for this team than they showed us. The massive injuries in key areas, like pitching, CF and 2B, seemingly all at once, taxed a system not yet deep enough to handle that strain. I still expected better, and I was probably unrealistic, too. Many of us were fooled by 2021's promise. We took that team and added Wacha, Schreiber, Refsnyder, Strahm and Hill, but somehow got worse.

 

The JBJ trade hurt like hell, and to some, outweighed the gains by Wacha and the others I just listed. I hated the deal from the first second it was done. Many did. More mistakes were made than just that one, and Bloom and Cora deserve to be called out on each and every one. There is a lengthy list of grievances that are worthy of criticism- some more so than others, but in my opinion the main priority Bloom and Cora were given- was to rebuild the system- bottom up, while trying to maintain the perception and reality of being a somewhat competitive team. They failed in 2020, which was certainly understandable, given the budget JH laid on Bloom and Sale & ERod missing the whole season. They failed in 2022, when most of us have been expecting steady improvement from year-to year.

 

Should we have? I think the vast majority of Sox fans, think yes, especially when the budget has been increasing since 2020's low point. I don't disagree, but I also see context is needed. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, here are just some of the significant contexts involved:

 

1. Aging stars in decline, but hard to trade or be given lesser roles.

2. A limited budget weighed down by pre-Bloom heft contracts giving back litte to no returns.

3. A homegrown farm that has given us just Houck, Dalbec and Crawford, since DD departed. A farm that, other than (big) maybe Bello, Mata and German, may not give us much in 2024, either.

4. A spate of injuries that defied anyone's worst expectations, and seemingly, all at once.

5. The rise of divisional foes that outpaced and rise we might have shown, had we been in another division. The O's have proven the are for real. The Jays did not reach expectations, but they have built up, mostly by costly additions, but certainly a lot of home grown talent, that were acquired through the drafts and IFA 3-6 years ago, I might add. They Rays remain the Rays, and the Yanks became a juggernaut for much of the season.

6. Expected continuation or improvements from pre-prime and prime players failed to materialize. Bogey, Devers and Vaz improved or stayed about the same as 2023, but nearly everyone else declined- some by a ton, an d not just because of missed time due to injuries- many sucked when healthy, too.

Plawecki was never great on offense, but he dropped over 150 points in OPS *0 from career).

Dalbec dropped over 150 points from 2021 and his career mark before '22.

JD dropped 100 points from '21 and 150 from his previous 4 yrs w BOS.

Dugo dropped 40 points from 2021 and 60 from his previous career mark.

The RBI drops by Bogey and JD, when we really needed more, hurt, too.

While Cordero & Arroyo may have done better off the bench than before, it wasn't enough.

Nate dropped off.

Barnes dropped off.

Whitlock and Houck did fine, but injuries and other factors negated any gains.

Sawamura, Davis and Robles declined so much, they are no longer here.

Sale was Sale, again.

 

It was a major confluence of bad luck and bad play that seemed to feed off each other, giving us one of the worst seasons, based on prior expectations since 2019- maybe even more than 2019.

 

I'm not happy at all with the 2022 Sox, but I do think there is reason to be optimistic going forward. The farm looks stronger- much stronger. The 40 man roster is much deeper than 2020 and even 2021. Yes, we lose some key players, but we also lose Price's money and should be able to improve on JD's 2022 numbers with his $22M. It won't be easy to replace the pre-2022 Nate, but $17M should be able to more than replace the 2022 Nate.

 

Replacing Wacha, Bogey and even Hill and Strahm at their contractual levels will be harder and the key to our hopes in 2024. Bringing Bogey back just keeps us even, and maybe for a just a couple more years, before he may start declining. Brining Wacha back will cost way more and may not get us the same 2022 results.

 

It's not going to be an easy off season for Bloom & Co, but he should have a budget nearly double anyone he has had to date (counting the Kike extension.)

 

I'm cautiously optimistic we will reach glory again. Hopefully in 2023 but more likely afterwards.

 

 

I am not that optimistic for 2023 and think that until the situation is settled with Bogey and Devers other decisions are secondary. I don't know what constraints were on him this year but I look at some of the decisions and the results, I don't think he can be afforded high marks. The inability to resolve the first base problems and the poor approach to the RF problem. I also wonder at his continual dumpster diving for the BP. I also wonder why so many red sox players declined in 2022. Some of that has to fall on Cora. He of course presided over the team in 2021 where the performances were much better.

 

Will Bloom and Cora make the hard decisions needed to move this team forward? Will JH encourage them to do so? Like I say,, I am not that optimistic.

[notin]

I am not that optimistic for 2023 and think that until the situation is settled with Bogey and Devers other decisions are secondary. I don't know what constraints were on him this year but I look at some of the decisions and the results, I don't think he can be afforded high marks. The inability to resolve the first base problems and the poor approach to the RF problem. I also wonder at his continual dumpster diving for the BP. I also wonder why so many red sox players declined in 2022. Some of that has to fall on Cora. He of course presided over the team in 2021 where the performances were much better.

 

Will Bloom and Cora make the hard decisions needed to move this team forward? Will JH encourage them to do so? Like I say,, I am not that optimistic.

 

And should the Sox sign Bogaerts?

 

He is having a great season in the surface, minus the power numbers.

 

But he’s also striking out more than ever, walking less than ever, hitting the ball hard less often than ever, hitting fewer barrels than ever.

 

But he does have that BABIP thing.

 

And he has stepped up the D, which is good…

[moonslav59]

I am not that optimistic for 2023 and think that until the situation is settled with Bogey and Devers other decisions are secondary. I don't know what constraints were on him this year but I look at some of the decisions and the results, I don't think he can be afforded high marks. The inability to resolve the first base problems and the poor approach to the RF problem. I also wonder at his continual dumpster diving for the BP. I also wonder why so many red sox players declined in 2022. Some of that has to fall on Cora. He of course presided over the team in 2021 where the performances were much better.

 

Will Bloom and Cora make the hard decisions needed to move this team forward? Will JH encourage them to do so? Like I say,, I am not that optimistic.

 

My optimism on 2023 is not as high as it was pre-2022, but I think we should get better. Brining back Bogey and Wacha will take up a significant chunk of the winter spending budget, but we should have enough to improve on the 2022 JD, Hill, JBJ, Diekman and Strahm.

 

I think we have already improved our 1B for 2023 with Casas and Hosmer. We should be able to equal or better our .750 DH OPS by using some sort of rotation or platoon which may include some from this group: Arroyo, Refsnyder, Casas or Hosmer (whoever is not at 1B), Dalbec, Cordero, Pham or E Valdez. It's not glitzy, but if we can improve at 1B/DH without spending a dime, we can then upgrade other slots with more resources:

 

SS (Bogey or Swanson?) or 2B (K Wong?), if Story can play SS.

RF (Nimmo?)

SP 1 or 2 (via trade?)

RP (too many to list)

SP 3 or 4 (too many to list)

 

Bloom has to hit on nearly all of these key 5 slots, but he'll have more money than he had in 2020, 2021 and 2022.

[notin]

My optimism on 2023 is not as high as it was pre-2022, but I think we should get better. Brining back Bogey and Wacha will take up a significant chunk of the winter spending budget, but we should have enough to improve on the 2022 JD, Hill, JBJ, Diekman and Strahm.

 

I think we have already improved our 1B for 2023 with Casas and Hosmer. We should be able to equal or better our .750 DH OPS by using some sort of rotation or platoon which may include some from this group: Arroyo, Refsnyder, Casas or Hosmer (whoever is not at 1B), Dalbec, Cordero, Pham or E Valdez. It's not glitzy, but if we can improve at 1B/DH without spending a dime, we can then upgrade other slots with more resources:

 

SS (Bogey or Swanson?) or 2B (K Wong?), if Story can play SS.

RF (Nimmo?)

SP 1 or 2 (via trade?)

RP (too many to list)

SP 3 or 4 (too many to list)

 

Bloom has to hit on nearly all of these key 5 slots, but he'll have more money than he had in 2020, 2021 and 2022.

 

No Swanson.

 

Here’s the thing. His real name is James. As in James Dansby Swanson.

 

He could have been Jimmy Swanson, Boy Hero. Or Jim Swanson. Or even JD Swanson.

 

But he chose to go by Dansby. Of all the options, he chose to spent his life being referred to like he was the upper class foppish villain in a Dickens novel.

 

That shows poor decision-making skills. And I don’t want a shortstop with poor decision-making skills

[moonslav59]

No Swanson.

 

Here’s the thing. His real name is James. As in James Dansby Swanson.

 

He could have been Jimmy Swanson, Boy Hero. Or Jim Swanson. Or even JD Swanson.

 

But he chose to go by Dansby. Of all the options, he chose to spent his life being referred to like he was the upper class foppish villain in a Dickens novel.

 

That shows poor decision-making skills. And I don’t want a shortstop with poor decision-making skills

 

I’m called by my middle name as many are. I did not choose it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No Swanson.

 

Here’s the thing. His real name is James. As in James Dansby Swanson.

 

He could have been Jimmy Swanson, Boy Hero. Or Jim Swanson. Or even JD Swanson.

 

But he chose to go by Dansby. Of all the options, he chose to spent his life being referred to like he was the upper class foppish villain in a Dickens novel.

 

That shows poor decision-making skills. And I don’t want a shortstop with poor decision-making skills

 

He's also a frozen TV dinner kind of guy, and those peas never thaw out... even in the microwave.

[harmony]

No Swanson.

 

Here’s the thing. His real name is James. As in James Dansby Swanson.

 

He could have been Jimmy Swanson, Boy Hero. Or Jim Swanson. Or even JD Swanson.

 

But he chose to go by Dansby. Of all the options, he chose to spent his life being referred to like he was the upper class foppish villain in a Dickens novel.

 

That shows poor decision-making skills. And I don’t want a shortstop with poor decision-making skills

FWIW I attended the minor league game when Dansby Swanson hit his first professional home run:

 

https://www.milb.com/gameday/hawks-vs-hops/2015/08/20/420760#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box,game=420760

 

... and an MLB game earlier this month when Swanson hit his 18th homer of the season:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK202209070.shtml

[notin]

He's also a frozen TV dinner kind of guy, and those peas never thaw out... even in the microwave.

 

Eating peas in itself is just a sign of poor decision-making.

 

Plus he went to Vanderbilt. When was the last time the Sox had a Vanderbilt alum that worked out? David Price? Yeah. Good argument!

 

Not to mention - by going to Vanderbilt, that means Swanson is a former Commodore. Know who else is a former Commodore? LIONEL RICHIE!! Do you really want a shortstop who thinks Sunday mornings are easy while he’s dancing on the ceiling?

 

No Dansby Swanson!

[Old Red]

11 games to go, and 7 games under 500. 9-2, or losing team for you.