Fire Bloom .

[dgalehouse]

Iron sharpens iron. There are a ton of Wild Card spots now. I don't think the "tough schedule" thing is a good excuse in the Wild Card era.

 

You can say that you are getting your ass kicked every day because you live in a tough neighborhood. But nobody cares. Unless you move or get a lot stronger, you are still going to get your ass kicked.

[Old Red]

You keep saying "his injury was known."

 

They put him on the IL on April 4th. Please read the last sentence.)

 

Boston placed left-hander Chris Sale on the 60-day injured list with a right rib stress fracture, the team announced on Monday (April 4th). The seven-time All-Star won't be eligible to return until at least June.

 

The news comes on the heels of Sale saying earlier in the day that he hoped to return to throwing by the end of the week or early next week.

 

Was Bloom supposed to find an ace after April 4th?

 

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/04/boston-red-soxs-chris-sale-on-60-day-il-stint-i-definitely-thought-i-was-going-to-be-ready-quicker-than-that.html

Who said anything about trying to find a Ace? No one did. April 4th? The Red Sox announced the injury on March 16th, which was plenty of time to go out, and find a starting pitcher, so Houck, and Whitlock wouldn’t have been messed with.

[moonslav59]

Who said anything about trying to find a Ace? No one did. April 4th? The Red Sox announced the injury on March 16th, which was plenty of time to go out, and find a starting pitcher, so Houck, and Whitlock wouldn’t have been messed with.

 

So, explain what you were getting at when you said, "They knew about Sale's injury."

 

Also, They did not know Sale was going to miss significant time until April 4th. (Read the last sentence of Sale quote.)

[moonslav59]

Who said anything about trying to find a Ace? No one did. April 4th? The Red Sox announced the injury on March 16th, which was plenty of time to go out, and find a starting pitcher, so Houck, and Whitlock wouldn’t have been messed with.

 

"Plenty of time?

 

Who was still out there on April 4th?

 

We had also just signed Story in the end of March, so I'm not sure how much budget is left.

[Old Red]

"Plenty of time?

 

Who was still out there on April 4th?

 

We had also just signed Story in the end of March, so I'm not sure how much budget is left.

Once again in all of MLB there was no one out there? Wow! Once again March 16th is when the injury was announced, so why you clinging to April 4th? 4 weeks wasn’t enough time to find someone? This was before the Story signing too, so no excuse there either.

[mvp 78]

So, explain what you were getting at when you said, "They knew about Sale's injury."

 

Also, They did not know Sale was going to miss significant time until April 4th. (Read the last sentence of Sale quote.)

 

They had set up a rotation with Sale, Wacha, Eovaldi and Hill. It was more than obvious that they'd need to wait on the side of the road for AAA a few times this year. Not having a better plan or Houck already up and running on day one is malfeasance IMO. When you get to the TOR series where Houck is out, just sign some schlub off the street or call up a AAA guy for a spot start rather than moving everything around to make matters worse.

[Old Red]

No, it's not. Currently, they are 4 games behind SEA for the last WC slot, and finishing with the 7th best AL record, with their schedule is nothing for them to be ashamed of.

 

Two days ago you were saying the Red Sox would have been in 3rd place in 3 other divisions, and 4th place in 2 other division besides that if they didn’t play in the BBE (Big Bad East), and of course you would have to do schedule adjustments too. Well unfortunately they are not in another Div, and they are what they are. Playoffs? Did someone say playoffs? Not in Boston. Not this year, but if we just could have been in another Div we had a chance with a weaker schedule. Oh well better luck next year.

[Old Red]

They had set up a rotation with Sale, Wacha, Eovaldi and Hill. It was more than obvious that they'd need to wait on the side of the road for AAA a few times this year. Not having a better plan or Houck already up and running on day one is malfeasance IMO. When you get to the TOR series where Houck is out, just sign some schlub off the street or call up a AAA guy for a spot start rather than moving everything around to make matters worse.

I guess that was just not obvious to the powers at be, and yes things were made worse, because of it.

[moonslav59]

Once again in all of MLB there was no one out there? Wow! Once again March 16th is when the injury was announced, so why you clinging to April 4th? 4 weeks wasn’t enough time to find someone? This was before the Story signing too, so no excuse there either.

 

I'm asking you. I don't think many FAs were out there in early April. I could be wrong.

 

I wasn't the one making the point about knowing Sale was out, and why didn't se do something. Tell us what we might have done?

 

You did the same thing with 1Bmen at the end of May. You never named one guy who was available or traded to someone else.

[moonslav59]

Two days ago you were saying the Red Sox would have been in 3rd place in 3 other divisions, and 4th place in 2 other division besides that if they didn’t play in the BBE (Big Bad East), and of course you would have to do schedule adjustments too. Well unfortunately they are not in another Div, and they are what they are. Playoffs? Did someone say playoffs? Not in Boston. Not this year, but if we just could have been in another Div we had a chance with a weaker schedule. Oh well better luck next year.

 

I was just making that point to say I think our team is better than our schedule and divisional ranking shows. It was meant to imply anything else.

[mvp 78]

I guess that was just not obvious to the powers at be, and yes things were made worse, because of it.

 

Well, not every can be as smart and good looking as me. It's my cross to bear.

[moonslav59]

They had set up a rotation with Sale, Wacha, Eovaldi and Hill. It was more than obvious that they'd need to wait on the side of the road for AAA a few times this year. Not having a better plan or Houck already up and running on day one is malfeasance IMO. When you get to the TOR series where Houck is out, just sign some schlub off the street or call up a AAA guy for a spot start rather than moving everything around to make matters worse.

 

I've never said mistakes were not made. IMO, we should never have piggy-backed Houck or jerked Houck and Whitlock all over the place.

 

We should have just called up Crawford, Seabold and Wink, earlier- not like that would have worked, but it would have helped the pen.

 

I have no issue using the word malfeasance in this area and others, too. I've never said Bloom and Cora have been perfect. (BTW, you forgot Pivetta as part of the opening day plan that blew up when Sale went on the IL.)

 

We had 5 starters. We thought Sale might miss a few games, but it wasn't until April 4th that we knew he was out for 60+ days.

 

I shouldn't be the only one to do research. I'm asking what other options were out there, and would the cost be reasonable to JF after just signing Story a couple weeks earlier.

 

One could argue, we should have signed a pitcher and not Story, and I'm hardly ever against adding top pitchers.

[Old Red]

I'm asking you. I don't think many FAs were out there in early April. I could be wrong.

 

I wasn't the one making the point about knowing Sale was out, and why didn't se do something. Tell us what we might have done?

 

You did the same thing with 1Bmen at the end of May. You never named one guy who was available or traded to someone else.

You always want me to do Bloom’s work for him. Why are you limiting finding a pitcher to a FA. Go out, and make a deal.same excuse on the 1B front. Go out, and make a deal. In all of MLB there was no 1B out there that could have been better than Franchy Strangeglove? Bloom it seems to have a pattern of not being able to do something at the time of need, and those 2 examples made the team worse off, and you can deny that all you want. He’s the HOBO, so go out, and make a deal.

[Old Red]

Well, not every can be as smart and good looking as me. It's my cross to bear.

 

The old gift, and a curse.

[dgalehouse]

Two days ago you were saying the Red Sox would have been in 3rd place in 3 other divisions, and 4th place in 2 other division besides that if they didn’t play in the BBE (Big Bad East), and of course you would have to do schedule adjustments too. Well unfortunately they are not in another Div, and they are what they are. Playoffs? Did someone say playoffs? Not in Boston. Not this year, but if we just could have been in another Div we had a chance with a weaker schedule. Oh well better luck next year.

 

Rule change needed. Five wild cards next year.

[Old Red]

I was just making that point to say I think our team is better than our schedule and divisional ranking shows. It was meant to imply anything else.

 

It was grasping at straws if anything else.

[moonslav59]

It was grasping at straws if anything else.

 

Call it what ever you want. There is no doubt, we are better than many teams- some with better records than us.

 

You can doubt that or disagree, but it is not straw grasping.

[moonslav59]

Here are all the SP'ers signed over the off season:

Story was signed on March 20th.

Sale was placed on 60 Day IL on April 4th and was previously believed to be possibly missing a few starts, only.

 

STARTING PITCHERS

 

Max Scherzer (37, 7.2 WAR) -- Signed 3-year deal with NYM (Dec. 1)

Kevin Gausman (31, 6.4) -- Signed 5-year deal with TOR (Nov. 30)

Carlos Rodón (29, 5.0) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (March 14)

Clayton Kershaw (34, 4.8) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 13)

Eduardo Rodriguez (29, 3.8) -- Signed 5-year deal with DET (Nov. 16)

Robbie Ray (30, 3.5) -- Signed 5-year deal with SEA (Nov. 30)

Zack Greinke (38, 3.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with KC (March 16)

Marcus Stroman (30, 3.4) -- Signed 3-year deal with CHC (Dec. 1)

Alex Cobb (34, 3.1) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Nov. 30)

Anthony DeSclafani (32, 3.0) -- Signed 3-year deal with SF (Nov. 22)

Tyler Anderson (32, 2.8) -- Signed 1-deal with LAD (March 18)

Jon Gray (30, 2.7) -- Signed 4-year deal with TEX (Dec. 1)

Michael Pineda (33, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with DET (March 19)

Alex Wood (31, 2.5) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Dec. 1)

Andrew Heaney (31, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (Nov. 10)

Rich Hill (42, 2.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1)

Yusei Kikuchi (31, 2.2) -- Signed 3-year deal with TOR (March 14)

Danny Duffy (33, 2.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 17)

Steven Matz (31, 2.1) -- Signed 4-year deal with STL (Nov. 29)

Dylan Bundy (29, 2.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (Dec. 1)

Johnny Cueto (36, 2.0) -- Signed MiLB deal with CWS (April 8)

Kwang Hyun Kim (33, 1.8) -- Signed with KBO team (March 7)

Garrett Richards (34, 1.7) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 20)

Brett Anderson (34, 1.5)

Corey Kluber (36, 1.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with TB (Dec. 1)

Matt Harvey (33, 1.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (April 8)

Zach Davies (29, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with ARI (March 24)

Matthew Boyd (31, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with SF (March 20)

Drew Smyly (33, 1.3) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 19)

J.A. Happ (39, 1.1)

Michael Wacha (30, 1.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Nov. 27)

Martín Pérez (31, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 14)

Steven Brault (30, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 22)

Trevor Cahill (33, 0.9)

Wily Peralta (33, 0.7) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 16)

Tommy Milone (35, 0.6)

Chris Ellis (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (March 16)

José Quintana (33, 0.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with PIT (Nov. 29)

Aaron Sanchez (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 16)

Vince Velasquez (30, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with CWS (March 14)

James Paxton (33, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1)

Mike Fiers (37, 0.3)

Chi Chi González (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with MIN (March 20)

José Ureña (30, 0.3)

Jon Lester (38, 0.3) -- Retired

Carlos Martínez (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with SF (March 20)

Chris Archer (33, 0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (March 28)

Aníbal Sánchez (38, 0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 14)

Cole Hamels (38, 0.1)

Ervin Santana (39, 0.1)

Jhoulys Chacín (34, 0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (Nov. 13)

Sean Nolin (32, 0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Jan. 8)

Justin Verlander (39, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with HOU (Dec. 1)

Noah Syndergaard (29, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAA (Nov. 16)

Wade LeBlanc (37, 0.0) -- Retired

Ivan Nova (35, -0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Dec. 20)

Thomas Eshelman (28, -0.1) -- Signed MiLB deal with SD (March 20)

Chad Kuhl (29, -0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (March 16)

Scott Kazmir (38, -0.2)

Matt Moore (33, -0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with TEX (March 14)

Jordan Lyles (31, -0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with BAL (March 12)

Jake Arrieta (36, -0.2) -- Retired

Chase Anderson (34, -0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 14)

Tanner Roark (35, -0.7)

Matt Shoemaker (35, -0.7) -- Signed with NPB team (Feb. 5)

Julio Teheran (31, -0.9)

Mike Foltynewicz (30, -1.1)

Félix Hernández (36, N/A)

Jasseel De La Cruz (25, N/A) -- Signed MiLB deal with ATL (March 13)

 

There were a few pitcher around when we signed Story. I can see arguing we could have signed pitchers not Story, but I don't recall anyone suggesting any one who was signed after April 4th.

[Old Red]

Here are all the SP'ers signed over the off season:

Story was signed on March 20th.

Sale was placed on 60 Day IL on April 4th and was previously believed to be possibly missing a few starts, only.

 

STARTING PITCHERS

 

Max Scherzer (37, 7.2 WAR) -- Signed 3-year deal with NYM (Dec. 1)

Kevin Gausman (31, 6.4) -- Signed 5-year deal with TOR (Nov. 30)

Carlos Rodón (29, 5.0) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (March 14)

Clayton Kershaw (34, 4.8) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 13)

Eduardo Rodriguez (29, 3.8) -- Signed 5-year deal with DET (Nov. 16)

Robbie Ray (30, 3.5) -- Signed 5-year deal with SEA (Nov. 30)

Zack Greinke (38, 3.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with KC (March 16)

Marcus Stroman (30, 3.4) -- Signed 3-year deal with CHC (Dec. 1)

Alex Cobb (34, 3.1) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Nov. 30)

Anthony DeSclafani (32, 3.0) -- Signed 3-year deal with SF (Nov. 22)

Tyler Anderson (32, 2.8) -- Signed 1-deal with LAD (March 18)

Jon Gray (30, 2.7) -- Signed 4-year deal with TEX (Dec. 1)

Michael Pineda (33, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with DET (March 19)

Alex Wood (31, 2.5) -- Signed 2-year deal with SF (Dec. 1)

Andrew Heaney (31, 2.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (Nov. 10)

Rich Hill (42, 2.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1)

Yusei Kikuchi (31, 2.2) -- Signed 3-year deal with TOR (March 14)

Danny Duffy (33, 2.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAD (March 17)

Steven Matz (31, 2.1) -- Signed 4-year deal with STL (Nov. 29)

Dylan Bundy (29, 2.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (Dec. 1)

Johnny Cueto (36, 2.0) -- Signed MiLB deal with CWS (April 8)

Kwang Hyun Kim (33, 1.8) -- Signed with KBO team (March 7)

Garrett Richards (34, 1.7) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 20)

Brett Anderson (34, 1.5)

Corey Kluber (36, 1.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with TB (Dec. 1)

Matt Harvey (33, 1.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (April 8)

Zach Davies (29, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with ARI (March 24)

Matthew Boyd (31, 1.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with SF (March 20)

Drew Smyly (33, 1.3) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 19)

J.A. Happ (39, 1.1)

Michael Wacha (30, 1.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Nov. 27)

Martín Pérez (31, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with TEX (March 14)

Steven Brault (30, 1.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with CHC (March 22)

Trevor Cahill (33, 0.9)

Wily Peralta (33, 0.7) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 16)

Tommy Milone (35, 0.6)

Chris Ellis (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with BAL (March 16)

José Quintana (33, 0.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with PIT (Nov. 29)

Aaron Sanchez (29, 0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 16)

Vince Velasquez (30, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with CWS (March 14)

James Paxton (33, 0.4) -- Signed 1-year deal with BOS (Dec. 1)

Mike Fiers (37, 0.3)

Chi Chi González (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with MIN (March 20)

José Ureña (30, 0.3)

Jon Lester (38, 0.3) -- Retired

Carlos Martínez (30, 0.3) -- Signed MiLB deal with SF (March 20)

Chris Archer (33, 0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with MIN (March 28)

Aníbal Sánchez (38, 0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with WSH (March 14)

Cole Hamels (38, 0.1)

Ervin Santana (39, 0.1)

Jhoulys Chacín (34, 0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (Nov. 13)

Sean Nolin (32, 0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Jan. 8)

Justin Verlander (39, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with HOU (Dec. 1)

Noah Syndergaard (29, 0.0) -- Signed 1-year deal with LAA (Nov. 16)

Wade LeBlanc (37, 0.0) -- Retired

Ivan Nova (35, -0.1) -- Signed with KBO team (Dec. 20)

Thomas Eshelman (28, -0.1) -- Signed MiLB deal with SD (March 20)

Chad Kuhl (29, -0.1) -- Signed 1-year deal with COL (March 16)

Scott Kazmir (38, -0.2)

Matt Moore (33, -0.2) -- Signed MiLB deal with TEX (March 14)

Jordan Lyles (31, -0.2) -- Signed 1-year deal with BAL (March 12)

Jake Arrieta (36, -0.2) -- Retired

Chase Anderson (34, -0.4) -- Signed MiLB deal with DET (March 14)

Tanner Roark (35, -0.7)

Matt Shoemaker (35, -0.7) -- Signed with NPB team (Feb. 5)

Julio Teheran (31, -0.9)

Mike Foltynewicz (30, -1.1)

Félix Hernández (36, N/A)

Jasseel De La Cruz (25, N/A) -- Signed MiLB deal with ATL (March 13)

 

There were a few pitcher around when we signed Story. I can see arguing we could have signed pitchers not Story, but I don't recall anyone suggesting any one who was signed after April 4th.

 

March 16th is the date to start with, and not April 4th, and that’s my last mention of the subject.

[harmony]

The Red Sox roster is filled with red flags.

 

However, the historically resilient Red Sox have overcome red flags in the past.

 

A fascinating franchise over the past 11 seasons with two World Series championships, four division titles and heading to a fifth last-place finish.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

no idea what the plan ever was for Whitlock or Houck…

 

Could be an organizational issue, not just totally the fault of only the GM and manager. Like every MLB club, Bloom has an entire department analyzing data to determine -- or at least trend -- personnel decisions; Cora also has a coaching staff of specialists.

 

Boston's weakest links of 2022 included a bad bullpen, shoddy defense (mainly from players playing out of position), and anemic offense with runners in scoring position. If roles were reversed -- and Cora assembled the same roster, and Bloom the line-up cards -- would the same posters be calling for a change in skippers?

 

My main gripe with Cora was in extra innings -- but only if all decisions were his, which is dubious. The Red Sox proved over and over they were miserably inept at moving runners over and driving them in. How many Ks does a ghost runner have to witness in horror before someone takes mercy on his soles (of his spikes) and mixes in a bunt?

 

But for all the fans know, Cora may just be complying with the modern company philosophy: refusing to give up an out. But when your team leads the league in extra inning losses, maybe it's time to try something else... Another half dozen wins in extras for the Sox could've kept them in the hunt -- like Cleveland; behind Boston in virtually every team batting category, but 12-4 in extras, and winning the Central (I know, I know: the Guards also have an actual big league bullpen).

[moonslav59]

March 16th is the date to start with, and not April 4th, and that’s my last mention of the subject.

 

Sale was not expected to miss more than a start or two, until April 4th.

 

Look, I'm always for adding more SP'ers. We should have had better depth than we had, but with a limited budget, we'd have had to rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

They misjudged Sale's return date. That sucked.

 

We could have signed another pitcher or traded some future assets to get better SP'ers. I do not think that was part of this year's plan. I don't think it was only Bloom & Cora determining not to go all in, this year.

 

Personally, I did not like many FA SP'ers, last winter. I complained when Bassitt and Manaea seemed to be traded for light returns. I'm not sure if we had what OAK wanted, or if they wanted too much from us, but even if I liked the deal, if the plan was not to trade any top propsects, than our options were severely limited.

[Deja Doh]

Joey Meneses is looking better than Juan Soto and Josh Bell combined so far.

[Old Red]

Call it what ever you want. There is no doubt, we are better than many teams- some with better records than us.

 

You can doubt that or disagree, but it is not straw grasping.

The Washington FB Team won their Div a few years ago with a losing record. Right place at the right time.

[Bellhorn04]

Could be an organizational issue, not just totally the fault of only the GM and manager. Like every MLB club, Bloom has an entire department analyzing data to determine -- or at least trend -- personnel decisions; Cora also has a coaching staff of specialists.

 

Boston's weakest links of 2022 included a bad bullpen, shoddy defense (mainly from players playing out of position), and anemic offense with runners in scoring position. If roles were reversed -- and Cora assembled the same roster, and Bloom the line-up cards -- would the same posters be calling for a change in skippers?

 

My main gripe with Cora was in extra innings -- but only if all decisions were his, which is dubious. The Red Sox proved over and over they were miserably inept at moving runners over and driving them in. How many Ks does a ghost runner have to witness in horror before someone takes mercy on his soles (of his spikes) and mixes in a bunt?

 

But for all the fans know, Cora may just be complying with the modern company philosophy: refusing to give up an out. But when your team leads the league in extra inning losses, maybe it's time to try something else... Another half dozen wins in extras for the Sox could've kept them in the hunt -- like Cleveland; behind Boston in virtually every team batting category, but 12-4 in extras, and winning the Central (I know, I know: the Guards also have an actual big league bullpen).

 

It's one of those things that some people don't buy into, but hitting with RISP is considered by metrics people to be a "clutch" skill that is not repeatable.

[dgalehouse]

It's one of those things that some people don't buy into, but hitting with RISP is considered by metrics people to be a "clutch" skill that is not repeatable.

 

With the metrics people, it's all about numbers and probabilities . They don't consider the psychology involved in the game.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's one of those things that some people don't buy into, but hitting with RISP is considered by metrics people to be a "clutch" skill that is not repeatable.

 

I intentionally didn't use the C word, because in the ghost runner age, all that's needed is for the first batter to make freaking contact. A hit isn't necessary to move the runner to third... and then there are many ways to score him with what is often the winning run.

 

Bunting, slashing, just choking up and putting the ball in play -- actually are repeatable skills... with reps of practice, of course.

[moonslav59]

The Washington FB Team won their Div a few years ago with a losing record. Right place at the right time.

 

My point was not anything related to this example.

[moonslav59]

With the metrics people, it's all about numbers and probabilities . They don't consider the psychology involved in the game.

 

Totally false.

[Old Red]

My point was not anything related to this example.

 

I didn’t say it was. That’s my point. Like I said earlier you were grasping at straws, but it didn’t change anything especially the all important WL record.