Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

I’d explore Mayer heading that deadline first. Now you have a cheap pitcher and a 1B next year.

 

You are assuming Casas steps right into a plus producer at 1B, where guys like Hosmer or low cost FAs like Mancini, Abreu, Bell or maybe Santana may outperform him in 2023, anyway.

 

It's harder and more costly to try and fill SS, CF and SP slots.

[moonslav59]

I was talking at the time about getting MAJOR LEAGUE talent back, and not prospects., so NO I wasn’t talking about getting a HOF back in a trade. Pedro was not exactly on his way to the HOF until he pitched for the Red Sox, so no just get Major League players back in trades.

 

So, trades like Betts for 5 yrs of ML'er Dugo and near ML ready Wong & Downs?

[Hugh2]

You are assuming Casas steps right into a plus producer at 1B, where guys like Hosmer or low cost FAs like Mancini, Abreu, Bell or maybe Santana may outperform him in 2023, anyway.

 

It's harder and more costly to try and fill SS, CF and SP slots.

 

You make that assumption with 100% of MLBers.

 

But with a system flushed with talent, why are you so eager to trade a potential middle of the order bat?

 

There’s other guys, who don’t have a place next year you could trade away? It just seems so unnecessary.

[Hugh2]

So, trades like Betts for 5 yrs of ML'er Dugo and near ML ready Wong & Downs?

 

It’s looking like Wong is going to be the better prospect out of that deal. In hindsight.

[notin]

I was talking at the time about getting MAJOR LEAGUE talent back, and not prospects., so NO I wasn’t talking about getting a HOF back in a trade. Pedro was not exactly on his way to the HOF until he pitched for the Red Sox, so no just get Major League players back in trades.

 

Pedro was the reigning NL Cy Young winner coming off back-to-back All Star games. If someone had called him a future Hall of Famer then, at best you could call that judgment “premature”.

 

The problem is only a few trade are MLB player for MLB player, at least when compared to MLB player for prospect trades. So in order to trade for MLB players, you really do need prospects. This is to go along with the ones you need to make minimum wage in MLB so you can afford and retain your stats.

 

So if the Sox want to trade for MLB players, they really need to have some prospects (re: trade capital) first…

[notin]

Yes, 39.7 to 35.0, but I'd still give more- like a player who is a bubble 40 man roster guy we can include and not be so squeezed, this winter.

 

Winckowski, Seabold, RHern, Downs...

 

I'd love to try and pry Stallings from them, despite his -0.8 BTV score.

 

Casas, RHern and Seabold for Lopez & Stallings. Accepted as a Major Overpay on BTV.

 

 

Casas and Duran for Pablo Lopez and CF JJ Bleday (excellent walk rate in MiLB)

 

Then sign Josh Bell to DH/1b with Hosmer. At least we know with Bell, the QO will not be an issue…

[notin]

Also why Stallings? He’s just a fatter version Reese McGuire.

 

How about we meet you halfway and just stuff McGuire full of cupcakes?

[Hugh2]

I’m fine with a McGuire/Wong platoon next year.

 

If anything I’d sign Vasquez or Contreras and save my trade chips for some pitching. Which we need more than a catcher right now.

[Hugh2]

I honestly don’t get the allure of stallings, he’s not that good. A Wong/McGuire platoon might be much better than him.

[moonslav59]

You make that assumption with 100% of MLBers.

 

But with a system flushed with talent, why are you so eager to trade a potential middle of the order bat?

 

There’s other guys, who don’t have a place next year you could trade away? It just seems so unnecessary.

 

I don't "want to trade" Casas, but we have urgent needs and you can't get a guy like Lopez for Nick Yorke and scraps. If we could, I'd do that.

 

Do we have a need at 2B and CF? Would you rather trade Rafaela?

 

Do we have a need at SS, if Story stays at 2B? You say you'd rather trade the higher -valued Mayer?

 

To me, I don't see any FA SP'ers that would meet our needs, plus the ones that are close would cost so much, we'd have little left to fill the other 4-6 slots in high need. That's the only reason I see making a trade for a low-cost SP'er as the best option. It's not because I want to trade our future 1Bman. Now, I might not be as high on Casas as some, here, but I value him highly enough that I think he's worth 2 years of an ace-quality SP'er like Lopez.

 

Who costs more? deGrom or Mancini? (The money saved allows us to get Mancini & Swanson or Nimmo.)

[moonslav59]

Casas and Duran for Pablo Lopez and CF JJ Bleday (excellent walk rate in MiLB)

 

Then sign Josh Bell to DH/1b with Hosmer. At least we know with Bell, the QO will not be an issue…

 

Are they open to trading Bleday?

[moonslav59]

Also why Stallings? He’s just a fatter version Reese McGuire.

 

How about we meet you halfway and just stuff McGuire full of cupcakes?

 

I think the loe OPS by Stallings, this year is an outlier.

 

If they think McGuire has the same profile as Stallings, then fine.

[Hugh2]

I don't "want to trade" Casas, but we have urgent needs and you can't get a guy like Lopez for Nick Yorke and scraps. If we could, I'd do that.

 

Do we have a need at 2B and CF? Would you rather trade Rafaela?

 

Do we have a need at SS, if Story stays at 2B? You say you'd rather trade the higher -valued Mayer?

 

To me, I don't see any FA SP'ers that would meet our needs, plus the ones that are close would cost so much, we'd have little left to fill the other 4-6 slots in high need. That's the only reason I see making a trade for a low-cost SP'er as the best option. It's not because I want to trade our future 1Bman. Now, I might not be as high on Casas as some, here, but I value him highly enough that I think he's worth 2 years of an ace-quality SP'er like Lopez.

 

Who costs more? deGrom or Mancini? (The money saved allows us to get Mancini & Swanson or Nimmo.)

 

Yes I’d trade Mayer for him In a heartbeat. I’d expect a prospect back with Lopez and other working pieces, but he’s not going to be a MLBer for several years. And if we’ve signed a Dansby type our infield is set anyways. We’re also flush with up the middle talent now too.

[Hugh2]

BTW if you trade for a SP and keep Casas without signing a 1B you have even more money.

[moonslav59]

I honestly don’t get the allure of stallings, he’s not that good. A Wong/McGuire platoon might be much better than him.

 

Remember, Vaz has had several bad offensive years, too. Apparently, Stallings is very good at handling the staff and on defense. The Marlins also have about 4 young catchers in their system, so they'd likely be willing to trade him.

 

I'm okay with McGuire and Wong, but I'm not sure how well they handle a pitching staff. If Sox brass has faith they can do better than Vaz did, in this area, I'm fine with going the whole year with .650 from a catching tandem on McGuire & Wong.

[moonslav59]

Yes I’d trade Mayer for him In a heartbeat. I’d expect a prospect back with Lopez and other working pieces, but he’s not going to be a MLBer for several years. And if we’ve signed a Dansby type our infield is set anyways. We’re also flush with up the middle talent now too.

 

Mayer has way more upside than Casas, and that trade could really come back to haunt us.

 

Yes, it works much better for the 2023 and 2024 outlook, but I'd keep a SS over a 1Bman everyday of the week.

 

BTW, who do you think will have better 2023-2024 number from this group:

 

Casas

Mancini

Abreu

Bell

 

And, how much better is Casas expected to be over a combination of Arroyo, Hosmer and Dalbec with Jordan & Kavadas for the future?

[Hugh2]

Mayer has way more upside than Casas, and that trade could really come back to haunt us.

 

Yes, it works much better for the 2023 and 2024 outlook, but I'd keep a SS over a 1Bman everyday of the week.

 

BTW, who do you think will have better 2023-2024 number from this group:

 

Casas

Mancini

Abreu

Bell

 

And, how much better is Casas expected to be over a combination of Arroyo, Hosmer and Dalbec with Jordan & Kavadas for the future?

 

And Lopez has more potential than Casas, I don’t care what BTV says. I’d be willing to bet by years end he out values him. How often do they update their values? Lopez is putting himself in the convo as a top 30 pitcher in all of baseball who could be even more than that next year.

 

Remember a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. The other side has to like the trade too. As fans our trade proposals are often biased.

[notin]

Are they open to trading Bleday?

 

No idea. Certainly not for Duran…

[moonslav59]

BTW if you trade for a SP and keep Casas without signing a 1B you have even more money.

 

Casas is valued higher than Lopez on BTV, so they actually support your position.

 

I vale an ace-type SP'er at arb costs very highly, and don't think we can win without adding someone like him. I'm fine with the idea of adding someone like him while keeping Casas, but I don't agree on trading mayer to do it.

 

Pablo is 26 1/2. he's just now entering peak prime.

 

2020-2022 (ages 24-26)

3.44 ERA

122 ERA+

3.48 FIP

1.16 WHIP

6.8 bWAR is just over 2 seasons (counting 2020 + 2022 as about just over 1 season) 6.0 fWAR

 

I'm not locked on Lopez, either, but apparently he's on the market, because MIA can't afford even his arb costs.

3.6 K/BB

[moonslav59]

No idea. Certainly not for Duran…

 

6 years of team control. I doubt they trade him. These are the guys they keep for 4 more years.

[moonslav59]

No idea. Certainly not for Duran…

 

BTV accepts this great trade for the Sox, but I am near certain, MIA would laugh at the offer:

 

Casas, Dalbec, Duran, Yorke & Wink

for

Lopez, Luzardo, Bleday

[Hugh2]

Casas is valued higher than Lopez on BTV, so they actually support your position.

 

I vale an ace-type SP'er at arb costs very highly, and don't think we can win without adding someone like him. I'm fine with the idea of adding someone like him while keeping Casas, but I don't agree on trading mayer to do it.

 

Pablo is 26 1/2. he's just now entering peak prime.

 

2020-2022 (ages 24-26)

3.44 ERA

122 ERA+

3.48 FIP

1.16 WHIP

6.8 bWAR is just over 2 seasons (counting 2020 + 2022 as about just over 1 season) 6.0 fWAR

 

I'm not locked on Lopez, either, but apparently he's on the market, because MIA can't afford even his arb costs.

3.6 K/BB

 

Sale cost the #1 prospect in baseball plus 3 more. Effectively two mayers. Lopez isn’t exactly Sale, but Mayer isn’t exactly Moncada/Kopech either.

 

I’d also expect to get more than Lopez back in a trade, with more moving parts, maybe even a third team to bring in a closer type or someone with closing potential too.

 

Also, with Mayer, you. An shoot a little higher than Lopez maybe.

[Hugh2]

And I think it’s worth noting, I’m not dead set on trading Mayer, I’d prefer not too, but I wouldn’t hate it for a TOTRS type.

[moonslav59]

And I think it’s worth noting, I’m not dead set on trading Mayer, I’d prefer not too, but I wouldn’t hate it for a TOTRS type.

 

I'd trade Mayer for a TOTRS, if the pitcher had 4+ years of control, maybe 3 if better than Lopez... like Rogers on MIA (4 yrs).

 

BTV does accept Casas & Duran for Lopez and Bleday, but I think it might take Casas and Yorke to get those two. (BTV accepted as "minor overpay" by Sox.)

 

[notin]

BTV accepts this great trade for the Sox, but I am near certain, MIA would laugh at the offer:

 

Casas, Dalbec, Duran, Yorke & Wink

for

Lopez, Luzardo, Bleday

 

I do think an offer of Casas and Duran might get back Pablo Lopez and second year arb Jon Berti, who is absolutely a Bloom-type player and would give Cora a better alternative at 2b to compliment Arroyo than Enmanuel Valdez.

 

In fact, deal almost makes sense for both teams…

[moonslav59]

I do think an offer of Casas and Duran might get back Pablo Lopez and second year arb Jon Berti, who is absolutely a Bloom-type player and would give Cora a better alternative at 2b to compliment Arroyo than Enmanuel Valdez.

 

In fact, deal almost makes sense for both teams…

 

He does get on base, nicely, but at 32, I'm not so sure.

 

Since my value of Duran is lower than what BTV gives him, I'd do it. Would they take that deal adding Yorke and Bleday?

[notin]

He does get on base, nicely, but at 32, I'm not so sure.

 

Since my value of Duran is lower than what BTV gives him, I'd do it. Would they take that deal adding Yorke and Bleday?

 

 

It’s a tough call, because I don’t know what they look for in a player. But with Yorke’s down season and Bleday already in some games, the safe answer is they probably stick with the cheap guy they have…

[notin]

He does get on base, nicely, but at 32, I'm not so sure.

 

 

Berti isn’t a building block for the future, he’s just a useful player with a diverse skill set to serve as a throw-in to this deal because at some point, possibly this year, possibly next, his salary will be more than the Marlins care to pay him…

[moonslav59]

Berti isn’t a building block for the future, he’s just a useful player with a diverse skill set to serve as a throw-in to this deal because at some point, possibly this year, possibly next, his salary will be more than the Marlins care to pay him…

 

I get the part about them wanting to trade him, and I'm not high on Duran, but I don't see him as our 2bman. I'd rather go with Arroyo/Valdez, if we choose to go light at 2B.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Mayer has way more upside than Casas, and that trade could really come back to haunt us.

 

Yes, it works much better for the 2023 and 2024 outlook, but I'd keep a SS over a 1Bman everyday of the week.

 

BTW, who do you think will have better 2023-2024 number from this group:

 

Casas

Mancini

Abreu

Bell

 

And, how much better is Casas expected to be over a combination of Arroyo, Hosmer and Dalbec with Jordan & Kavadas for the future?

 

Trading Triston Casas unchecks all the boxes for a position the Red Sox shouldn't have to worry about for years.

 

At 22, Casas is the top-rated first base prospect in all of baseball (26th overall). He is everything the Red Sox lack at that position: a good offensive player who chokes up and goes opposite field when down in the count, and was also just named the best defensive first sacker in the International League. For a parent club suddenly severely lacking in the longall, Casas' power potential only adds to his allure. He is 6'4, 250+ pounds and batted third for Manager Mike Scoscia's Team USA as a 21-year-old a year ago.

 

Finally, when Casas makes the big leagues, he will be making minimum wage... until he enjoys some success, at which point Boston will sign him to a longterm contract that will make him rich -- but not break the budget -- and most importantly, lock up his prime years as part of the core of a sustained contender.