2022 Bullpen Thread

[moonslav59]

Pham has been a negative dWAR in the field and a 30% K-rate at the plate for the Sox; we can do better. DH will be a platoon with Arroyo and the regulars he subs for on their days off. Not sure how Dalbec as a bench piece can improve and make contributions without regular at bats...

 

We all know not to count on Sale or Houck (it's not automatic to assume a pitcher will immediately bounce back to 100% after back surgery), so the starting rotation needs three acquisitions. It's unlikely Boston will pay Wacha what someone else will on the open market.

 

soxprospects seems to try to minimize the amount of "acquisitions" we will make over the coming winter.

 

I doubt Dalbec makes the bench, unless Hosmer is viewed as a near FT DH.

 

I could see the plan being a Dalbec-Hosmer platoon at DH with Hosmer being the b ack-up 1Bman and Dalbec being the back-up 3Bman.

 

E Valdez or Arroyo might challenge them for PAs at DH, but I don't expect Valdez to be on the opening day 26.

 

Pham does have a nice career split v LHPs at .850, but I agree, there may not be room for him on the 26, especially if we add a SS/2B and RF/DH type, like I hope we do.

 

The 13 might be:

 

C: McGuire & Wong

1B/DH: Casas (Hosmer/ Dalbec- see DH)

2B: Story. Arroyo

SS: __________

3B: Devers

LF: Verdugo

CF: Kike

RF: ___________, Refsnyder

DH: Hosmer

1 from: Dalbec, Franchy or Valdez or _________ (Pham?)

[moonslav59]

Do you have high hopes for him?

 

How high or low are your hopes?

[moonslav59]

German gets the call!

 

Finally!

 

German's 2022 Farm Numbers

 

AA

11.1 IP

6 Hits

3 BB

18 Ks

.493 OPS Against

 

AAA

38.1 IP

20 Hits

16 BB (rather high)

46 Ks

.496 OPS Against

 

Overall

2.72 ERA

0.91 WHIP

.495 OPS Against

49.2 IP- 26 Hits

64 K:19 BB

 

[notin]

Do you have high hopes for him?

 

 

I do. Although I know there’s a good chance he doesn’t hit the ground running….

[dgalehouse]

Hopefully, German can live up to the hype and be a big part of a revamped and much improved bullpen next season. This year's Sox would be in much better shape today if they had a better bullpen. It has cost them far too many games.

[Larry Cook]

Hopefully, German can live up to the hype and be a big part of a revamped and much improved bullpen next season. This year's Sox would be in much better shape today if they had a better bullpen. It has cost them far too many games.

 

It’s all about command and control for him.

[moonslav59]

It’s all about command and control for him.

 

True.

 

Only 26 hits in 50 innings shows some skills, but 19 BBs is a bit worrisome.

[Hugh2]

I don't know if German will have a good, great, or bad MLB career, but I know he will be judged here by what he does in his first 5 IP.

[notin]

I don't know if German will have a good, great, or bad MLB career, but I know he will be judged here by what he does in his first 5 IP.

 

Probably true, but with only 18 games left, he won’t give us a much larger sample size…

[dgalehouse]

German had an inauspicious debut. It can only get better from here.

[Larry Cook]

German had an inauspicious debut. It can only get better from here.

 

He pooped the bed!

[a700hitter]

I do. Although I know there’s a good chance he doesn’t hit the ground running….

He hit the ground with a thud.

[a700hitter]

How high or low are your hopes?

Not high. I don’t think the Yankees would give us an arm with a lot of upside for some salary relief. I don’t think he will be another Whitlock if that is what people are hoping.

[moonslav59]

Not high. I don’t think the Yankees would give us an arm with a lot of upside for some salary relief. I don’t think he will be another Whitlock if that is what people are hoping.

 

I like how you waited to answer.

 

The Whitlock case shows the Yanks can misjudge young talented pitchers. Plus, as jacko will tell you, they have som many great young arms, they can't protect them all.

 

[a700hitter]

I like how you waited to answer.

 

The Whitlock case shows the Yanks can misjudge young talented pitchers. Plus, as jacko will tell you, they have som many great young arms, they can't protect them all.

 

i didn’t wait to answer. I answered a few minutes after seeing your question.

[Hugh2]

I like how you waited to answer.

 

The Whitlock case shows the Yanks can misjudge young talented pitchers. Plus, as jacko will tell you, they have som many great young arms, they can't protect them all.

 

 

Wasn’t German acquired around the same time as Whitlock? Seems kind of strange that the Yankees would have someone no good to trade and yet have more talented guys not protected on the 40.

 

German is a relief only profile, has flashed plus stuff this year, not getting my hopes up, but certainly you’d never see me talking down a prospect after one bad outing on the majors. I’m not that shallow.

[a700hitter]

Wasn’t German acquired around the same time as Whitlock? Seems kind of strange that the Yankees would have someone no good to trade and yet have more talented guys not protected on the 40.

 

German is a relief only profile, has flashed plus stuff this year, not getting my hopes up, but certainly you’d never see me talking down a prospect after one bad outing on the majors. I’m not that shallow.

No one would describe you as shallow.

[moonslav59]

Wasn’t German acquired around the same time as Whitlock? Seems kind of strange that the Yankees would have someone no good to trade and yet have more talented guys not protected on the 40.

 

Yes, it was the same winter.

 

DEC 2020 to Jan 2021

Ottavino & German (Trade)

Whitlock (Rule 5)

Ort & T Reed (Minor League Rule 5)

 

[Hugh2]

No one would describe you as shallow.

 

No one who matters at least.

[Bellhorn04]

German had an inauspicious debut. It can only get better from here.

 

"Inauspicious" - exactly the word I was going to use. Says it all, but in a dignified fashion.

[notin]

"Inauspicious" - exactly the word I was going to use. Says it all, but in a dignified fashion.

 

The box score looked horrible, but he was actually hitting 97-98 regularly and at least keeping it around the zone. The arm has life, and not every debut is representative.

 

The last real flamethrower like this the Sox brought up was Darwinzon Hernandez, and German certainly appeared to have better control than him…

[a700hitter]

No one who matters at least.

That’s my exact sentiment.

[dgalehouse]

The Sox are 26th out of 30 teams in bullpen ERA. If you look at the list, you will see that the teams with the highest bullpen ERAs are the teams at the bottom of the standings. The teams with the lowest bullpen ERAs are, for the most part, the playoff teams. With very few exceptions, there is a strong correlation between bullpen ERA and the success of the team. Building a better bullpen should be the number one priority this off season.

[Hugh2]

The Sox are 26th out of 30 teams in bullpen ERA. If you look at the list, you will see that the teams with the highest bullpen ERAs are the teams at the bottom of the standings. The teams with the lowest bullpen ERAs are, for the most part, the playoff teams. With very few exceptions, there is a strong correlation between bullpen ERA and the success of the team. Building a better bullpen should be the number one priority this off season.

 

You're not wrong, but it's also one of the trickiest things to accomplish.

[moonslav59]

The Sox are 26th out of 30 teams in bullpen ERA. If you look at the list, you will see that the teams with the highest bullpen ERAs are the teams at the bottom of the standings. The teams with the lowest bullpen ERAs are, for the most part, the playoff teams. With very few exceptions, there is a strong correlation between bullpen ERA and the success of the team. Building a better bullpen should be the number one priority this off season.

 

Our pen has certainly been one of many weak points on the team.

 

I do question the use of ERA, especially for RP'ers, since they often enter innings with 1-2 outs already and the full amount of runs allowed my be lessened by walk off hits.

 

In other areas, our pen still looks bad, buy not always bottom 5.

 

9th in IP, which hints at forced overuse- shifting some of "the blame" to the starters or manager

 

21st in fWAR at 2.7

21st WHIP at 1.35

23rd xFIP at 4.55 (20th in FIP)

26th in ERA- at 110

 

Our SP'ers are...

 

21st in IP.

 

18th in FWAR at 8.8

18th xFIP at 4.09

21st in ERA- at 109 (about the same as the pen)

24th in WHIP at 1.34 (about the same as the pen)

 

The pen deserves criticism, but you seem to focus only on them, when the starters forced more IP on them, and their injuries forced Houck and Whitlock to start some games and a few "pen games," along the way, as well.

[dgalehouse]

The Sox are 26th out of 30 teams in bullpen ERA. If you look at the list, you will see that the teams with the highest bullpen ERAs are the teams at the bottom of the standings. The teams with the lowest bullpen ERAs are, for the most part, the playoff teams. With very few exceptions, there is a strong correlation between bullpen ERA and the success of the team. Building a better bullpen should be the number one priority this off season.

Here is the list.

Team ERA SV H ER WHIP HR BB SO

Pittsburgh 4.84 30 612 331 1.45 68 282 562

Colorado 4.77 40 511 285 1.39 60 235 496

Cincinnati 4.72 30 547 305 1.42 78 281 596

Kansas City 4.70 32 553 290 1.49 58 276 516

Boston 4.55 35 537 299 1.35 65 259 597

Arizona 4.55 31 527 269 1.38 62 210 455

Oakland 4.44 33 520 267 1.38 61 225 504

Chi. Cubs 4.25 40 570 295 1.33 97 264 678

Philadelphia 4.20 40 454 234 1.37 47 234 547

Miami 4.16 36 515 241 1.40 63 216 546

Chi. White Sox 4.12 44 510 253 1.31 56 214 574

San Francisco 4.01 38 599 266 1.37 61 218 532

LA Angels 4.00 33 481 251 1.24 80 216 527

Washington 3.99 28 553 265 1.30 80 226 548

Milwaukee 3.93 50 470 243 1.22 77 208 601

Minnesota 3.89 27 572 269 1.30 76 238 645

Toronto 3.85 43 509 247 1.24 76 204 569

San Diego 3.81 46 447 213 1.22 50 165 493

Texas 3.78 35 513 253 1.26 61 245 584

NY Mets 3.67 40 460 213 1.24 66 189 597

St. Louis 3.65 36 470 219 1.24 57 198 480

Baltimore 3.46 43 542 230 1.23 61 196 557

Detroit 3.46 34 491 220 1.25 43 223 557

Seattle 3.34 38 387 188 1.10 59 173 538

Tampa Bay 3.32 43 555 241 1.15 82 197 625

Cleveland 3.09 47 398 176 1.13 50 179 546

NY Yankees 3.06 44 417 181 1.18 36 214 540

Atlanta 3.05 51 419 177 1.16 50 185 592

LA Dodgers 2.97 40 403 178 1.05 52 164 577

Houston 2.78 50 359 145 1.14 32 174 535

[mvp 78]

The Sox are 26th out of 30 teams in bullpen ERA. If you look at the list, you will see that the teams with the highest bullpen ERAs are the teams at the bottom of the standings. The teams with the lowest bullpen ERAs are, for the most part, the playoff teams. With very few exceptions, there is a strong correlation between bullpen ERA and the success of the team. Building a better bullpen should be the number one priority this off season.

 

I don't think you'll find many people than would disagree with you.

[mvp 78]

Here is the list.

Team ERA SV H ER WHIP HR BB SO

Pittsburgh 4.84 30 612 331 1.45 68 282 562

Colorado 4.77 40 511 285 1.39 60 235 496

Cincinnati 4.72 30 547 305 1.42 78 281 596

Kansas City 4.70 32 553 290 1.49 58 276 516

Boston 4.55 35 537 299 1.35 65 259 597

Arizona 4.55 31 527 269 1.38 62 210 455

Oakland 4.44 33 520 267 1.38 61 225 504

Chi. Cubs 4.25 40 570 295 1.33 97 264 678

Philadelphia 4.20 40 454 234 1.37 47 234 547

Miami 4.16 36 515 241 1.40 63 216 546

Chi. White Sox 4.12 44 510 253 1.31 56 214 574

San Francisco 4.01 38 599 266 1.37 61 218 532

LA Angels 4.00 33 481 251 1.24 80 216 527

Washington 3.99 28 553 265 1.30 80 226 548

Milwaukee 3.93 50 470 243 1.22 77 208 601

Minnesota 3.89 27 572 269 1.30 76 238 645

Toronto 3.85 43 509 247 1.24 76 204 569

San Diego 3.81 46 447 213 1.22 50 165 493

Texas 3.78 35 513 253 1.26 61 245 584

NY Mets 3.67 40 460 213 1.24 66 189 597

St. Louis 3.65 36 470 219 1.24 57 198 480

Baltimore 3.46 43 542 230 1.23 61 196 557

Detroit 3.46 34 491 220 1.25 43 223 557

Seattle 3.34 38 387 188 1.10 59 173 538

Tampa Bay 3.32 43 555 241 1.15 82 197 625

Cleveland 3.09 47 398 176 1.13 50 179 546

NY Yankees 3.06 44 417 181 1.18 36 214 540

Atlanta 3.05 51 419 177 1.16 50 185 592

LA Dodgers 2.97 40 403 178 1.05 52 164 577

Houston 2.78 50 359 145 1.14 32 174 535

 

Of course Dombrowski is the big outlier here. He couldn't ever build a pen either.

[moonslav59]

I don't think you'll find many people than would disagree with you.

 

With no Wacha, Nate of Hill, is the pen really a higher priority than the rotation, especially if Houck and Whitlock are locked into pen-only roles? (We only lose Strahm from the pen- the rest are addition by subtraction.)

[Old Red]

With no Wacha, Nate of Hill, is the pen really a higher priority than the rotation, especially if Houck and Whitlock are locked into pen-only roles? (We only lose Strahm from the pen- the rest are addition by subtraction.)

 

You can’t just bring everyone else back, but Strahm, so it’s not we only lose Strahm. I’ve said since opening day this year that a reliable closer is needed, and I still feel that way, and to me that reliable closer is not on the team now. Yes we probably need 2 more starters too, and that’s taking a big chance that Sale will be healthy, and that is a big if. Houck, and Whitlock are coming off injuries, and who knows what Barnes will give you. I’m not counting on Schreiber to be as good next year, but if it happens great. Everyone has known all these holes were going to be there before this season even started, so filling those holes is nothing new.