2022 Bullpen Thread

[Bellhorn04]

5 days ago his ERA was 0.00. Certainly no one thought he morphed into Sparky Lyle, but how many people thought he wasn’t wry good?

 

Two outings later and 1.1 IP later it’s 6.76 and he was a clear mistake?

 

I don't know. He's 35 and his 2021 fWAR was -0.1. He doesn't inspire much confidence.

[vegasbob]

One thing about the Sale related comments and Bloom's response to that situation is that Sale's rib injury apparently occurred in February , well before the new CBA was settled. Did the Red Sox not know they had an issue there? Did Sale not let anyone know, "Hey, I can't breathe too deeply" ?

 

I think Bloom could have moved more aggressively once Sale's current injury was known , certainly when dealmaking resumed in mid-March.

[notin]

I don't know. He's 35 and his 2021 fWAR was -0.1. He doesn't inspire much confidence.

 

 

Fair, although he is typically in the 0.5 to 1.0 fWAR range, which is pretty good fr a position where almost no one gets 3.0 fWAR…

[notin]

One thing about the Sale related comments and Bloom's response to that situation is that Sale's rib injury apparently occurred in February , well before the new CBA was settled. Did the Red Sox not know they had an issue there? Did Sale not let anyone know, "Hey, I can't breathe too deeply" ?

 

I think Bloom could have moved more aggressively once Sale's current injury was known , certainly when dealmaking resumed in mid-March.

 

Due to the lockout, Sale was not allowed to let the team know of his condition…

[Old Red]

It tells me that MLB managers place some importance on defense and not so much on batting average less than 3 weeks into a season…

 

And that has gotten you a 7-11 record. I don’t think Duran is a butcher in the OF, so much that he can’t play.

[Old Red]

Due to the lockout, Sale was not allowed to let the team know of his condition…

 

Either way when Bloom did know he did nothing.

[notin]

Either way when Bloom did know he did nothing.

 

I agree.

 

I expected him to move on the arms in Oakland, and I assume he checked in but I really don’t know what transpired beyond no trade.

 

I’m not surprised he didn’t sign a starter. The market was pretty barren. But I did at the very least expect an arm. Obviously he bypassed the names I recommended (and probably with good reason) but I was surprised nobody was added…

[notin]

And that has gotten you a 7-11 record. I don’t think Duran is a butcher in the OF, so much that he can’t play.

 

So you think he’s worthy of starting but not good enough to fetch a reliever in a trade? That’s a pretty small gray area…

[Old Red]

I agree.

 

I expected him to move on the arms in Oakland, and I assume he checked in but I really don’t know what transpired beyond no trade.

 

I’m not surprised he didn’t sign a starter. The market was pretty barren. But I did at the very least expect an arm. Obviously he bypassed the names I recommended (and probably with good reason) but I was surprised nobody was added…

 

It wouldn’t be such a big deal if the offense wasn’t this bad, but it is, and all things are magnified, because of the record

, and how the losses has occurred.

[Old Red]

So you think he’s worthy of starting but not good enough to fetch a reliever in a trade? That’s a pretty small gray area…

 

I think he is only worth starting, because Kike, and JBJ can’t hit 200 at the moment. I don’t think Duran would be otherwise.

[Old Red]

So you think he’s worthy of starting but not good enough to fetch a reliever in a trade? That’s a pretty small gray area…

 

Maybe sweeten the pot a little with two other of Bloom’s prizes Jeter, and Wong, and even then it might not be enough. You didn’t just say reliever you said shut down reliever. Big difference.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Old Red

[vegasbob]

Since this is the BP thread, why pick on the hitters here ?

 

Instead , didn't the hitters in the last 3 games tie or gain a lead by the top of the 8th ? Then wasn't it the BP who gave up the winning ( losing) runs . The reality is that the talent level below Whitlock isn't amazing, it's marginal and in the most recent pressure situations blew the game , along with the Story/Dalbec fiasco.

[vegasbob]

No team is currently so far out of it that they would trade off a shutdown reliever, much less legit closer, except for a big premium. The current bunch will need to slog through the AL East getting better weekly and then make a move in July. If they plod along at a .500 pace ( not there just yet), they won't need to deal for an established reliever this year. But they will be sellers at the deadline unless in contention.

[moonslav59]

Updated. The starters are catching up.

 

Had we traded for Bassitt and or Manaea, Houck and or Whitlock would still be in the pen.

[Old Red]

No team is currently so far out of it that they would trade off a shutdown reliever, much less legit closer, except for a big premium. The current bunch will need to slog through the AL East getting better weekly and then make a move in July. If they plod along at a .500 pace ( not there just yet), they won't need to deal for an established reliever this year. But they will be sellers at the deadline unless in contention.

 

I can just see this bullpen getting worse, and worse even if they were good just by the over use of having to pitch 5+ innings game after game, and just wearing down. You can only slog for so long.

[notin]

No team is currently so far out of it that they would trade off a shutdown reliever, much less legit closer, except for a big premium. The current bunch will need to slog through the AL East getting better weekly and then make a move in July. If they plod along at a .500 pace ( not there just yet), they won't need to deal for an established reliever this year. But they will be sellers at the deadline unless in contention.

 

 

I was talking about in the off-season, post lockout. And plenty of relievers were moved very late in the off-season. Baltimore, Minnesota, Chicago (AL) and San Diego all shook up their bullpens with trades very close to opening day. Including moving 4 pitchers with closing experience…

[notin]

Had we traded for Bassitt and or Manaea, Houck and or Whitlock would still be in the pen.

 

My point all along.

 

And that was just one potential solution…

[dgalehouse]

Sox management ( Bloom) has a philosophy of trying to piece together a bullpen without spending very much. It is a popular method among the analytical folks. A lot of that thinking comes from the disciples of Bill James. Sometimes it works. But is it really a good idea when trying to build a championship team?

[moonslav59]

Updated. The starters are catching up.

 

My point all along.

 

And that was just one potential solution…

 

Mine, too. I only mentioned the A's starters, because it was well-known they were being shopped and the return for Manaea was rather weak. He had a BTV of about 14. I suggested many trades accepted by BTV. Herer were some:

 

Downs for Manaea & Piscotty (Neg 8.6 value)

Duran, Dalbec, Downs, Lugo & Wong for Manaea, Langeliers & Trivino

Duran & Jordan for Manaea, Pache & Trivino

But, I also once suggested Wikelman, Jordan and Seabold for Manaea & Trivino

 

Bassitt had a value around 17. I once offered Mata, Winckowski, Seabold & Sawamura for Bassitt, Piscotty & Trivino

[redsoxrules]

Based on how this team is being managed it doesnt look they give a s*** about this year. It's like they are testing out things for next year which makes sense for the reset.

[mvp 78]

@SoxNotes

Most strikeouts as a reliever, Red Sox history:

 

1. Dick Radatz – 629

2. Matt Barnes – 517

3. Bob Stanley – 516

 

Not sure Barnes will catch up to the Monster at this point.

[Old Red]

@SoxNotes

Most strikeouts as a reliever, Red Sox history:

 

1. Dick Radatz – 629

2. Matt Barnes – 517

3. Bob Stanley – 516

 

Not sure Barnes will catch up to the Monster at this point.

 

Radatz was the best I have seen the Sox ever had, but wore his arm out by throwing so many innings in a short period of time. I believe he struck out Mickey Mantle something like 47 out of 63 AB.

[Old Red]

Mine, too. I only mentioned the A's starters, because it was well-known they were being shopped and the return for Manaea was rather weak. He had a BTV of about 14. I suggested many trades accepted by BTV. Herer were some:

 

Downs for Manaea & Piscotty (Neg 8.6 value)

Duran, Dalbec, Downs, Lugo & Wong for Manaea, Langeliers & Trivino

Duran & Jordan for Manaea, Pache & Trivino

But, I also once suggested Wikelman, Jordan and Seabold for Manaea & Trivino

 

Bassitt had a value around 17. I once offered Mata, Winckowski, Seabold & Sawamura for Bassitt, Piscotty & Trivino

 

These would have never happened, because Duran, and Downs that you keep trying to pawn off are not that well sot after by other teams rather BTV accepts, or not.

[mvp 78]

Radatz was the best I have seen the Sox ever had, but wore his arm out by throwing so many innings in a short period of time. I believe he struck out Mickey Mantle something like 47 out of 63 AB.

 

Mantle vs Radatz

 

19PA, 12k, 3BB, 3 H, 1 HR, 753 OPS

Edited April 27, 2022 by mvp 78

[dgalehouse]

" The Monster " There is a rather interesting story about Radatz in Jim Bouton's book . I'm not going to tell it on here.

[Old Red]

Mantle vs Radatz

 

19PA, 12k, 3BB, 3 H, 1 HR, 311 OPS

 

I just looked it up again, and appears to be conflicting reports on this does it not?

[Bellhorn04]

" The Monster " There is a rather interesting story about Radatz in Jim Bouton's book . I'm not going to tell it on here.

 

And Mantle as well...

[mvp 78]

I just looked it up again, and appears to be conflicting reports on this does it not?

 

The report I pulled must not have had all the info.

[dgalehouse]

And Mantle as well...

 

And others. " Ball Four" was scandalous before scandalous was cool.

[notin]

Sox management ( Bloom) has a philosophy of trying to piece together a bullpen without spending very much. It is a popular method among the analytical folks. A lot of that thinking comes from the disciples of Bill James. Sometimes it works. But is it really a good idea when trying to build a championship team?

 

You keep all this complaining about analytics. Perhaps you liked the team better when there were no analytics but we did have the occasional 86 year championship drought?