2022 Bullpen Thread

[notin]

I heard he threw 17 straight change ups once.......must have great arm motion to deceive the hitters.

 

Or he just got flat out pummeled….

[moonslav59]

Game by Game Breakdown

 

Starters IP/ER vs Relievers IP/ER

 

SP- RP

L 5.0/3 - 5.0/1 (2 ghost runs allowed)

L 5.2/4 - 2.1/0

W 3.1/3 - 5.2/1

L 4.1/1 - 3.2/2

W 4.1/3 - 4.2/0

W 5.0/2 - 4.0/5

L 2.0/5 - 7.0/4

W 5.2/0 - 3.1/0

W 5.0/0 - 4.0/1

L 4.2/4 - 4.1/4

W 4.2/1 - 4.1/1

L 4.0/5 - 5.0/1

L 5.0/2 - 4.0/1

W 5.0/2- 4.0/0

L 4.0/0- 5.2/3

L 4.0/ 0- 4.0/5

L 7.0/2- 1.0/4

 

The pen has done better in 8 games.

The starters have done better in 7.

They did about the same in 2 games.

 

The pen as done okay to well in 11 games.

The starters have done okay to well in 10 games.

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by moonslav59

[Larry Cook]

Game by Game Breakdown

 

Starters IP/ER vs Relievers IP/ER

 

SP- RP

L 5.0/3 - 5.0/1 (2 ghost runs allowed)

L 5.2/4 - 2.1/0

W 3.1/3 - 5.2/1

L 4.1/1 - 3.2/2

W 4.1/3 - 4.2/0

W 5.0/2 - 4.0/5

L 2.0/5 - 7.0/4

W 5.2/0 - 3.1/0

W 5.0/0 - 4.0/1

L 4.2/4 - 4.1/4

W 4.2/1 - 4.1/1

L 4.0/5 - 5.0/1

L 5.0/2 - 4.0/1

 

The pen has done better in 7 games.

The starters have done better in 4.

They did about the same in 2 games.

 

The pen as done okay to well in 9 games.

The starters have done okay to well in 6 games.

 

 

 

 

At the beginning of the season, I thought the bullpen was a dumpster fire. But at this point, relievers not named kutter, have surprised me greatly.

[mvp 78]

I heard he threw 17 straight change ups once.......must have great arm motion to deceive the hitters.

 

Going through his game log:

 

4/11/21 10 straight changeups (Mountcastle out, then a 9 pitch walk to DJ Stewart).

6/6/21 12 straight changeups (hits Clint Frazier with a sinker and then 6 changeups to Andujar for GDP and 4 changeups to Tyler Wade for a 1b and LeMahieu grounds out after 2 changeups)

 

I didn't see any others where he threw 10+ changeups in a row. I mean, I believe it could happen for sure.

[Nick]

Going through his game log:

 

4/11/21 10 straight changeups (Mountcastle out, then a 9 pitch walk to DJ Stewart).

6/6/21 12 straight changeups (hits Clint Frazier with a sinker and then 6 changeups to Andujar for GDP and 4 changeups to Tyler Wade for a 1b and LeMahieu grounds out after 2 changeups)

 

I didn't see any others where he threw 10+ changeups in a row. I mean, I believe it could happen for sure.

 

My source if I heard it correctly was Eck during recent appearance by Valdez on NESN telecast. Eck was impressed with his change and added how many in a row he had thrown. Anyone else hear it? Even 12 straight is impressive.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Nick

[Nick]

Robles 16 pitches (4 outs), Dieckman 28 pitches (2 outs)

 

If it's all about pitch count, I was little surprised we didn't go with Robles to start the 9th inning. I'm sure the pitching coach wanted Dieckman to have a clean inning.

I just thought Robles had decent command and the first batter in 9th was right handed (maybe he was a switch hitter).

 

On his second walk, he was ahead in count 1-2 and I thought he got little cute throwing 3 breaking balls to walk the hitter. Then he also had the next hitter 1-2, and even thought the batter looked overmatched, Dieckman again got away from his fastball couple of times.

 

If you allow Dieckman 28 pitches, why not a longer outing for Robles? Do you count the warm up pitches on top? Just asking.

[Nick]

Going through his game log:

 

4/11/21 10 straight changeups (Mountcastle out, then a 9 pitch walk to DJ Stewart).

6/6/21 12 straight changeups (hits Clint Frazier with a sinker and then 6 changeups to Andujar for GDP and 4 changeups to Tyler Wade for a 1b and LeMahieu grounds out after 2 changeups)

 

I didn't see any others where he threw 10+ changeups in a row. I mean, I believe it could happen for sure.

 

My source if I heard it correctly was Eck during recent appearance by Valdez on NESN telecast. Eck was impressed with his change and added how many in a row he had thrown. Anyone else hear it?

 

I'm beginning to be less impressed by all the one inning guys.

[moonslav59]

We all knew this pen would end up having some rough times. All-in-all our pens have been over performing, despite some scary times and a few stretches of failures.

 

[Bellhorn04]

Robles 16 pitches (4 outs), Dieckman 28 pitches (2 outs)

 

If it's all about pitch count, I was little surprised we didn't go with Robles to start the 9th inning. I'm sure the pitching coach wanted Dieckman to have a clean inning.

I just thought Robles had decent command and the first batter in 9th was right handed (maybe he was a switch hitter).

 

On his second walk, he was ahead in count 1-2 and I thought he got little cute throwing 3 breaking balls to walk the hitter. Then he also had the next hitter 1-2, and even thought the batter looked overmatched, Dieckman again got away from his fastball couple of times.

 

If you allow Dieckman 28 pitches, why not a longer outing for Robles? Do you count the warm up pitches on top? Just asking.

 

I think there's a lot of stuff that factors in. Robles is a hard thrower who is generally going to give you 3 or 4 outs and throw 15 to 20 pitches. He was working on 2 days rest after throwing 23 pitches last time out. And as you say they wanted Diekman to have a clean inning. Unfortunately he made a mess that someone else had to clean up.

[notin]

Robles 16 pitches (4 outs), Dieckman 28 pitches (2 outs)

 

If it's all about pitch count, I was little surprised we didn't go with Robles to start the 9th inning. I'm sure the pitching coach wanted Dieckman to have a clean inning.

I just thought Robles had decent command and the first batter in 9th was right handed (maybe he was a switch hitter).

 

On his second walk, he was ahead in count 1-2 and I thought he got little cute throwing 3 breaking balls to walk the hitter. Then he also had the next hitter 1-2, and even thought the batter looked overmatched, Dieckman again got away from his fastball couple of times.

 

If you allow Dieckman 28 pitches, why not a longer outing for Robles? Do you count the warm up pitches on top? Just asking.

 

Walls is a switch hitter.

 

They don’t count warmup pitches, but I don’t think they’re completely ignored either…

[Kimmi]

My source if I heard it correctly was Eck during recent appearance by Valdez on NESN telecast. Eck was impressed with his change and added how many in a row he had thrown. Anyone else hear it? Even 12 straight is impressive.

 

I heard this. I can't remember how many they said, but I think you're right that they said 17 straight. They specifically remembered counting them during the game.

[Kimmi]

We all knew this pen would end up having some rough times. All-in-all our pens have been over performing, despite some scary times and a few stretches of failures.

 

 

Our pen has looked pretty good, IMO.

 

I can't say the same about our offense. Putrid.

[moonslav59]

Our pen has looked pretty good, IMO.

 

I can't say the same about our offense. Putrid.

 

True.

 

This "tough times" was helped along by key errors and ghost runners.

[Larry Cook]

The dumpster fire, aka our bullpen, strikes again tonight in Toronto.

[moonslav59]

Did anyone really expect the pen to keep being that good?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Did anyone really expect the pen to keep being that good?

 

This line may prove most useful for all aspects of the roster Bloom has assembled from the bargain bins.

 

Did anyone really expect the pen to keep being that good?

 

Did anyone really expect the rotation to keep being that good?

 

Did anyone really expect the short-handed pitching staff that will travel to Toronto all year to be any good?

 

Did anyone really expect the production of the rightfielders to be any good?

 

Did anyone really expect the bench to be any good?

 

Did anyone really expect the batting order to be not as good... (with Story, but minus Schwarber and Renfroe)? Well, most of us, there.

[mvp 78]

Did anyone really expect the pen to keep being that good?

 

I have a reasonable expectation that the GM should be able to construct a competent bullpen. Especially since the Rays have always seemed to have a decent pen.

[moonslav59]

I have a reasonable expectation that the GM should be able to construct a competent bullpen. Especially since the Rays have always seemed to have a decent pen.

 

Yes, I expected Bloom to build a good pen, but the pen I saw on paper, this spring was not what I had hoped for. That was one reason I preferred having Houck at closer and Whitlock as the magic man.

[notin]

I have a reasonable expectation that the GM should be able to construct a competent bullpen. Especially since the Rays have always seemed to have a decent pen.

 

The Sox bullpen is average. They rank in the middle of the pack using any metric you like - ERA, fWAR, FIP, xFIP.

 

The problem is still a lineup that hasn’t scored as many as 4 runs in a game for 8 straight games. That this average bullpen has more fWAR than the offense should speak volumes about where the trouble is, and one game doesn’t change this…

[mvp 78]

Yes, I expected Bloom to build a good pen, but the pen I saw on paper, this spring was not what I had hoped for. That was one reason I preferred having Houck at closer and Whitlock as the magic man.

 

So the question is, why can the Rays have a decent pen with lots of reclamation projects, but the Sox have seemed to fall short in the area the past 3 seasons?

[mvp 78]

The Sox bullpen is average. They rank in the middle of the pack using any metric you like - ERA, fWAR, FIP, xFIP.

 

The problem is still a lineup that hasn’t scored as many as 4 runs in a game for 8 straight games. That this average bullpen has more fWAR than the offense should speak volumes about where the trouble is, and one game doesn’t change this…

 

I agree. The Sox never led in the game. The offense was supposed to carry this team. It has not done so yet.

 

I just think the bullpen seems like an afterthought and I don't see the plan to fix it.

[moonslav59]

So the question is, why can the Rays have a decent pen with lots of reclamation projects, but the Sox have seemed to fall short in the area the past 3 seasons?

 

Maybe Bloom had better scouts and a better organization with the Rays.

 

Maybe it was just good luck with the Rays or bad luck with us.

 

Also, our pen has done pretty well with under the radar arms under Bloom with the Sox- certainly better than expected.

 

[moonslav59]

I agree. The Sox never led in the game. The offense was supposed to carry this team. It has not done so yet.

 

I just think the bullpen seems like an afterthought and I don't see the plan to fix it.

 

To me, the only "plan" is Sale and Paxton joining the staff and pushing others down by attrition.

 

I'm not sure how well the starters pushed into the pen will do, unless it's Whitlock and or Houck.

[mvp 78]

Maybe Bloom had better scouts and a better organization with the Rays.

 

Maybe it was just good luck with the Rays or bad luck with us.

 

Also, our pen has done pretty well with under the radar arms under Bloom with the Sox- certainly better than expected.

 

 

The under the radar guys that worked out:

Valdez - maybe? He stunk last year.

Whitlock

Sawamura

Robles

Rios

 

The under the radar guys that didn't work out:

Davis

Crawford

Andriese

Workman - return of

Brice

Weber

Brewer

Springs

Osich

Covey

Kickham

Stock

 

It's hard to rate the 2022 guys just yet. The list is loaded with the garbage pile from 2020. It remains to be seen if the 2022 looks like last year's pen or the year prior.

[mvp 78]

To me, the only "plan" is Sale and Paxton joining the staff and pushing others down by attrition.

 

I'm not sure how well the starters pushed into the pen will do, unless it's Whitlock and or Houck.

 

Sale was very diminished last year. I'm not sure what he'll be coming back this year after another injury.

 

Paxton has only pitched 21.2 innings the since 1/1/20. I can't project what he'll do this year. He may not even have an appearance, or he could just be a force down the stretch. Too much variability with him.

[moonslav59]

The under the radar guys that worked out:

Valdez - maybe? He stunk last year.

Whitlock

Sawamura

Robles

Rios

 

The under the radar guys that didn't work out:

Davis

Crawford

Andriese

Workman - return of

Brice

Weber

Brewer

Springs

Osich

Covey

Kickham

Stock

 

It's hard to rate the 2022 guys just yet. The list is loaded with the garbage pile from 2020. It remains to be seen if the 2022 looks like last year's pen or the year prior.

 

Did all of his additions with the Rays do well?

 

(I'm guessing more did, but do we have a breakdown?)

 

Also, Richards did well in the pen, although he was not acquired for that role.

 

What list do you place Ottavino on?

[mvp 78]

Did all of his additions with the Rays do well?

 

(I'm guessing more did, but do we have a breakdown?)

 

Also, Richards did well in the pen, although he was not acquired for that role.

 

What list do you place Ottavino on?

 

Richards and Ottavino aren't "under the radar" guys.

 

I'm not going to go through all of Tampa's transactions under Bloom. Of course not "all" of his additions with the Rays would do well, but they have been known for finding reclamation projects that worked out.

[moonslav59]

Richards and Ottavino aren't "under the radar" guys.

 

I'm not going to go through all of Tampa's transactions under Bloom. Of course not "all" of his additions with the Rays would do well, but they have been known for finding reclamation projects that worked out.

 

Agreed, and he also had a longer time to establish a system of scouts and advisors, there, too.

[mvp 78]

Agreed, and he also had a longer time to establish a system of scouts and advisors, there, too.

 

This was the first offseason that he could poach guys from the Rays. I didn't hear of him grabbing too many this offseason.

[mvp 78]

Looks like Sox will get to keep 9 relievers a little longer.

 

@Joelsherman1

MLB and MLBPA have agreed to delay going to a 13-pitcher limit on Monday, May 2. It will now go into effect on May 30. But the rosters still drop in size from 28 to 26 on Monday.