2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[mvp 78]

The two current FIP leaders were both FA this offseason: Rodon and Gausman.

[moonslav59]

After watching the flabbergasting Gausman make the Sox look ghastly, did anyone else agree you get what you pay for?

 

For those against investing in top pitchers for market rates, maybe it's just a matter of accepting the inevitable drag of the backend of a longterm contract for the elite front end of the front enders...

 

When the Jays get Teoscar Hernandez back they'll be even harder to beat, and could even go all the way... as soon as they install a real shortstop and shift Bichette somewhere safer.

 

I'm always for upgrading the rotation, but some of these prices are just beyond overpays.

 

BTW, we are paying a lot for our starters:

 

$25.6 Sale

$17.0 Eovaldi

$10.0 Paxton

$7.00 Wacha

$5.00 Hill

$2.65 Pivetta

 

That's over $67M.

 

If you count Price's $16M, we're at $83M, which is over a third of our total player budget of about $225M.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Yes the "relievers are less reliable" thing is just a myth.

 

Got any proof?

 

We're talking FA RP'er, right?

 

Biggest RP'er contracts 20-21

54/3 L Hendricks

18/2 Treinen

16/2 T May

13/2 P Baez

11/1 Rosenthal

11/1 Hand

 

19-20

40/3 W Smith

34/4 Pomeranz

24/3 W Harris

14/2 C Martin

11/1 D Hudson

11/1 Betances

10/1 Treinen

 

18-19

43/3 Kimbrel

39/3 Britton

30/3 Familia

27/3 Ottavino

25/2 A Miller

25/3 J Kelly

23/2 D Robertson

18/2 Herrera

15/2 Soria

10/2 J Wilson

 

17-18

52/3 W Davis

28/2 M Minor

27/3 B Shaw

27/3 J McGee

21/2 Morrow

18/2 T Hunter

17/2 Nicasio

17/2 A Reed

16/2 Neshek

15/2 J Smith

14/2 Swarzak

14/1 G Holland

13/2 Cishek

11/2 Gregrson

 

16-17

86/5 Chapman

80/5 Jansen

62/4 Melancon

31/3 Cecil

19/3 Dunn

16/2 Ziegler

12/2 Wood & Tazawa

11/2 Rzepczynski, D Hudson & Casilla

 

 

I know the top FA SP'ers have often failed, too, but show me they failed more than these clowns!

 

[mvp 78]

Got any proof?

 

I know the top FA SP'ers have often failed, too, but show me they failed more than these clowns!

 

 

You're the one who originally stated that relievers fail more often than starters. YOU show me the proof.

[moonslav59]

You're the one who originally stated that relievers fail more often than starters. YOU show me the proof.

 

I just did, and it was you who called it a "myth." Tell us why.

[Bellhorn04]

Got any proof?

 

We're talking FA RP'er, right?

 

Biggest RP'er contracts 20-21

54/3 L Hendricks

18/2 Treinen

16/2 T May

13/2 P Baez

11/1 Rosenthal

11/1 Hand

 

19-20

40/3 W Smith

34/4 Pomeranz

24/3 W Harris

14/2 C Martin

11/1 D Hudson

11/1 Betances

10/1 Treinen

 

18-19

43/3 Kimbrel

39/3 Britton

30/3 Familia

27/3 Ottavino

25/2 A Miller

25/3 J Kelly

23/2 D Robertson

18/2 Herrera

15/2 Soria

10/2 J Wilson

 

17-18

52/3 W Davis

28/2 M Minor

27/3 B Shaw

27/3 J McGee

21/2 Morrow

18/2 T Hunter

17/2 Nicasio

17/2 A Reed

16/2 Neshek

15/2 J Smith

14/2 Swarzak

14/1 G Holland

13/2 Cishek

11/2 Gregrson

 

16-17

86/5 Chapman

80/5 Jansen

62/4 Melancon

31/3 Cecil

19/3 Dunn

16/2 Ziegler

12/2 Wood & Tazawa

11/2 Rzepczynski, D Hudson & Casilla

 

 

I know the top FA SP'ers have often failed, too, but show me they failed more than these clowns!

 

 

They are hardly all clowns.

 

Usually you highlight the clowns in red or something.

[mvp 78]

I just did, and it was you who called it a "myth." Tell us why.

 

You didn't provide s***.

[moonslav59]

They are hardly all clowns.

 

Usually you highlight the clowns in red or something.

 

How many reached even 75% of expectations?

[mvp 78]

They are hardly all clowns.

 

Usually you highlight the clowns in red or something.

 

He doesn't think Jansen, Chapman and Hendriks are good?

[moonslav59]

You didn't provide s***.

 

What have you provided other than illusions?

[mvp 78]

How many reached even 75% of expectations?

 

You tell us. You posted a bunch of guys' contracts, but with nothing else?

[Nick]

I tend to agree with Moon on relievers...hit and miss

 

Gee, all you have to do is look at Barnes...2 year $18.75M is no chump change...how many of these mistakes do you want?

 

He's at best our #5 reliever right now...

[mvp 78]

What have you provided other than illusions?

 

Just as much as you have.

 

My point was you made a statement and now can't even back it up.

[notin]

I tend to agree with Moon on relievers...hit and miss

 

Gee, all you have to do is look at Barnes...2 year $18.75M is no chump change...how many of these mistakes do you want?

 

He's at best our #5 reliever right now...

 

 

Again

 

I’ll use today’s terminology

 

Relievers are not “hit or miss” pitchers. But “hit or miss” pitchers do usually end up as relievers.

[mvp 78]

I tend to agree with Moon on relievers...hit and miss

 

Gee, all you have to do is look at Barnes...2 year $18.75M is no chump change...how many of these mistakes do you want?

 

He's at best #5 reliever right now...

 

Sox have never had a bad starter contract?

[notin]

Sox have never had a bad starter contract?

 

Not since Price. Unless you count Sale…

[mvp 78]

Not since Price. Unless you count Sale…

 

Richards?

[notin]

I tend to agree with Moon on relievers...hit and miss

 

Gee, all you have to do is look at Barnes...2 year $18.75M is no chump change...how many of these mistakes do you want?

 

He's at best our #5 reliever right now...

 

The Sox are paying Price and Sale $100 million for the remainder of their deals. You’re not souring me on Barnes and his comparative pocket change contract. At least he’s here and pitching…

[notin]

Richards?

 

And a couple guys named Martin Perez. Or were they both the same guy?

[notin]

Richards?

 

The interesting thing about Richards is he was pretty hit or miss as a starter. But as a reliever he was a bastion of consistency…

[mvp 78]

And a couple guys named Martin Perez. Or were they both the same guy?

 

Perez was a lot cheaper. I felt like his deal was closer to being worth it than the bonfire of money for Richards.

[mvp 78]

The interesting thing about Richards is he was pretty hit or miss as a starter. But as a reliever he was a bastion of consistency…

 

I think you've blown this case wide open.

[moonslav59]

You tell us. You posted a bunch of guys' contracts, but with nothing else?

 

I thought the names spoke for themselves.

[moonslav59]

Just as much as you have.

 

My point was you made a statement and now can't even back it up.

 

You want ERAs or OPS against for 75% or more of the names I listed?

 

You know most sucked, but you won't admit it.

[moonslav59]

Sox have never had a bad starter contract?

 

Where did I say signing starters was a sure bet?

 

I just inferred they were less hit or miss than RP'ers.

 

The Sox examples are not indicative of MLB, as a whole, and counting just free agents, like I think the debate was referencing, discounts the Beckett, Pedro, Porcello and many other extensions, but here are our biggest FA pitching singings:

 

Eovaldi -Good

Price- Not so good, but some argue otherwise

Lackey- Pretty good

Dempster- Many thought it worked out fine

Clement- disaster

 

If you want to count Paxton, Richards & Masterson, then is skews downward.

 

Look, lots of SP'ers flopped or got hurt, too, but I think significantly more did better than top FA RP'ers did over the last 4-6 years.

[moonslav59]

The Sox are paying Price and Sale $100 million for the remainder of their deals. You’re not souring me on Barnes and his comparative pocket change contract. At least he’s here and pitching…

 

I never mentioned anything about the cost of a flopping SP'er outweighing that of RP'ers, just the hit-or-miss factor.

[mvp 78]

I thought the names spoke for themselves.

 

Got it.

[mvp 78]

You want ERAs or OPS against for 75% or more of the names I listed?

 

You know most sucked, but you won't admit it.

 

I don't know most sucked. I haven't been given any evidence towards it. It's just a random list.

[mvp 78]

Look, lots of SP'ers flopped or got hurt, too, but I think significantly more did better than top FA RP'ers did over the last 4-6 years.

 

Interesting.

[mvp 78]

I never mentioned anything about the cost of a flopping SP'er outweighing that of RP'ers, just the hit-or-miss factor.

 

So no difference between signing an ace for top dollar than some relief rental? Makes sense to me.