2022 Starting Rotation Thread

[Bellhorn04]

It might be a little early to write off Hill and Paxton

 

Paxton hasn't done a damn thing!

[Bellhorn04]

How would we be feeling about it right now if we re-signed E-Rod for 77 million?

[moonslav59]

It might be a little early to write off Hill and Paxton

 

That's what "the jury is still out" on them means.

[moonslav59]

Personally I look at all his acquisitions in totality.

 

As for the 5 you listed, the only clear bust was Richards.

 

I'd rank him behind Perez.

[Bellhorn04]

That's what "the jury is still out" on them means.

 

But you start out by saying Bloom is 1 for 5, so the messaging is a bit muddy.

[notin]

That's what "the jury is still out" on them means.

 

The jury is still out on Wacha, too. Just because the early returns are promising doesn’t quite make him a success just yet.

 

But it just leaves me confused by your “1 for 5” comment…

[Bellhorn04]

I'd rank him behind Perez.

 

Richards 1.0 fWAR in 2021

Perez 1.0 total fWAR in 2020-2021 - 1.4 seasons

 

Both minor busts.

[notin]

Richards 1.0 fWAR in 2021

Perez 1.0 total fWAR in 2020-2021 - 1.4 seasons

 

Both minor busts.

 

True, although Richards was a lot better when he was cheating…

[notin]

Paxton hasn't done a damn thing!

 

You’re such a “the pitcher is half-injured” pessimistic guy. He’s literally allowed 0 earned runs this year…

[Nick]

I was dead set against signing a long term deal with E Rod. I wish him well. The year he was traded for, he was the only starter I cared to watch.

 

I like the Paxton deal. Bloom is hoping for 2 solid years for 3 years worth of money. (the last two is for $13M per annum). Whatever he's able to give us this year is big bonus. If he breaks a leg, well it cost us $10M and we can walk away.

 

Wacha looks like he'll give the innings we need from a starter. As you have alluded to, Bloom saw something in his last few starts last year.

 

Hill is Hill. He's hittable but can provide us with innings. At $4M, not a big risk.

 

I think Moon and I always think alike in that we think the way to go is to sign a #1 pitcher and slide everyone else down a slot. But that's expensive and risky.

I would not want to own G Cole's contract. Another 7 years at $36M annually (counting 2022). I would only do it if we have a very good team and the signing is way over the top. (ie blow away others in AL EAST)

 

Ultimately Bloom is buying time to get some of our younger pitcher time develop. Need Bello to continue ascending and Matta to come back from TJ.

[notin]

I was dead set against signing a long term deal with E Rod. I wish him well. The year he was traded for, he was the only starter I cared to watch.

 

I like the Paxton deal. Bloom is hoping for 2 solid years for 3 years worth of money. (the last two is for $13M per annum). Whatever he's able to give us this year is big bonus. If he breaks a leg, well it cost us $10M and we can walk away.

 

Wacha looks like he'll give the innings we need from a starter. As you have alluded to, Bloom saw something in his last few starts last year.

 

Hill is Hill. He's hittable but can provide us with innings. At $4M, not a big risk.

 

I think Moon and I always think alike in that we think the way to go is to sign a #1 pitcher and slide everyone else down a slot. But that's expensive and risky.

I would not want to own G Cole's contract. Another 7 years at $36M annually (counting 2022). I would only do it if we have a very good team and the signing is way over the top. (ie blow away others in AL EAST)

 

Ultimately Bloom is buying time to get some of our younger pitcher time develop. Need Bello to continue ascending and Matta to come back from TJ.

 

This.

 

It’s one thing to fail with pitchers making $4-8mill for 1-2 years. Those will happen and you move on. What happens when you fail with a pitcher making $155 mill over the next 5 years? Those happen, too. But moving on is not so easy.

 

The only way to move on is the 1-2 year $4-8mill AAV deals (and hope big on the farm system). I would imagine that paying $45mill this year to Sale and Price (and their combined 0 IP) is a big factor in why we signed Wacha and Hill…

[Bellhorn04]

The only way to move on is the 1-2 year $4-8mill AAV deals (and hope big on the farm system). I would imagine that paying $45mill this year to Sale and Price (and their combined 0 IP) is a big factor in why we signed Wacha and Hill…

 

There are only so many slices in the pie. Our 2022 pie is costing about $240 mill as it is.

[notin]

There are only so many slices in the pie. Our 2022 pie is costing about $240 mill as it is.

 

So much for the Tampa North rhetoric

 

People keep complaining about the bargain basement signings keep forgetting the pitchers were bought from the top shelf are at home broken again and in LA. But that doesn’t mean they don’t exist…

[moonslav59]

But you start out by saying Bloom is 1 for 5, so the messaging is a bit muddy.

 

Yes, a bit premature on this year's signings, but I'm talking more about the strategy of not even going over $10M, let alone $15 or $20M.

[moonslav59]

I was dead set against signing a long term deal with E Rod. I wish him well. The year he was traded for, he was the only starter I cared to watch.

 

I like the Paxton deal. Bloom is hoping for 2 solid years for 3 years worth of money. (the last two is for $13M per annum). Whatever he's able to give us this year is big bonus. If he breaks a leg, well it cost us $10M and we can walk away.

 

Wacha looks like he'll give the innings we need from a starter. As you have alluded to, Bloom saw something in his last few starts last year.

 

Hill is Hill. He's hittable but can provide us with innings. At $4M, not a big risk.

 

I think Moon and I always think alike in that we think the way to go is to sign a #1 pitcher and slide everyone else down a slot. But that's expensive and risky.

I would not want to own G Cole's contract. Another 7 years at $36M annually (counting 2022). I would only do it if we have a very good team and the signing is way over the top. (ie blow away others in AL EAST)

 

Ultimately Bloom is buying time to get some of our younger pitcher time develop. Need Bello to continue ascending and Matta to come back from TJ.

 

I'm okay with signing low budget starters as depth, but at some point we need to look at quality over quantity, and that will cost more than $10M/1.

 

I'm thinking we'll eventually have to part with a prized prospect or two to trade for one, but I'm not sure Bloom thinks that way.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, a bit premature on this year's signings, but I'm talking more about the strategy of not even going over $10M, let alone $15 or $20M.

 

Because

 

Sale 29 mill

Eovaldi 17 mill

Price 16 mill

 

Payroll for tax purposes 242 mill

[notin]

I'm okay with signing low budget starters as depth, but at some point we need to look at quality over quantity, and that will cost more than $10M/1.

 

I'm thinking we'll eventually have to part with a prized prospect or two to trade for one, but I'm not sure Bloom thinks that way.

 

Again, we have two pitchers making over $10mill this year. Just because one is a Dodger and one is injured doesn’t change this.

 

It’s the downside of signing effective but expensive pitchers; they usually stop being effective before they stop being expensive…

[moonslav59]

Again, we have two pitchers making over $10mill this year. Just because one is a Dodger and one is injured doesn’t change this.

 

It’s the downside of signing effective but expensive pitchers; they usually stop being effective before they stop being expensive…

 

Bloom hasn't spent over $10M.

 

There's a big gap between $10M and what Price and Sale got.

 

Eovaldi and Price's $16M come off the books, this winter. How will Bloom spend on starters, then? Bigger money for free agents or trading prospects for a good one?

 

Or, does he hope some of our prospects fill the open slots?

[notin]

Bloom hasn't spent over $10M.

 

There's a big gap between $10M and what Price and Sale got.

 

Eovaldi and Price's $16M come off the books, this winter. How will Bloom spend on starters, then? Bigger money for free agents or trading prospects for a good one?

 

Or, does he hope some of our prospects fill the open slots?

 

 

Paxton is making $10mill this year. With bigger options.

 

But my point is there is a lot of posts about not spending on pitching. And a big part of the reason is the team already has large commitments to pitching. And these big deals from the past impact present and sometimes future spending…

Edited April 23, 2022 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom hasn't spent over $10M.

 

There's a big gap between $10M and what Price and Sale got.

 

Eovaldi and Price's $16M come off the books, this winter. How will Bloom spend on starters, then? Bigger money for free agents or trading prospects for a good one?

 

Or, does he hope some of our prospects fill the open slots?

 

All options are open.

[moonslav59]

Paxton is making $10mill this year. With bigger options.

 

But my point is there is a lot of posts about not spending on pitching. And a big part of the reason is the team already has large commitments to pitching. And these big deals from the past impact present and sometimes future spending…

 

I get that. I really do, but I just can't see us ever getting to be a top 3-4 contender without adding quality pitching.

 

Maybe, at some point, one of these bargain guys will far exceed expectations and give us what we'd expect from a $17-27M FA starter.

 

Maybe, a prospect will become an ace, or Houck and or Whitlock will.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible to create an excellent rotation without signing or trading for an ace, but that's a lot of hopes and prayers having to come through and soon.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I get that. I really do, but I just can't see us ever getting to be a top 3-4 contender without adding quality pitching.

 

Maybe, at some point, one of these bargain guys will far exceed expectations and give us what we'd expect from a $17-27M FA starter.

 

Maybe, a prospect will become an ace, or Houck and or Whitlock will.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible to create an excellent rotation without signing or trading for an ace, but that's a lot of hopes and prayers having to come through and soon.

 

 

This is a logical post that sums up a lot of my feelings about the Sox' pitching the past few years. Teams need an ace to get them over the top, but they also need one when rebuilding to stabilize a staff in both the rotation and to preserve the bullpen.

 

The problem is, investing in guys for 7+ years usually isn't worth it (Price, Cole, etc). The number of albatross seasons at the end always seems to nullify the first few great ones...

 

It may seem prudent to sign three average guys each year instead of one above-average longterm. But three new guys each and every year just doesn't seem conducive to building a core of sustained contenders...

[jacksonianmarch]

Whitlock just dragged his enormous balls out, slapped them on the table and dared the Sox not to start him again

[moonslav59]

This is a logical post that sums up a lot of my feelings about the Sox' pitching the past few years. Teams need an ace to get them over the top, but they also need one when rebuilding to stabilize a staff in both the rotation and to preserve the bullpen.

 

The problem is, investing in guys for 7+ years usually isn't worth it (Price, Cole, etc). The number of albatross seasons at the end always seems to nullify the first few great ones...

 

It may seem prudent to sign three average guys each year instead of one above-average longterm. But three new guys each and every year just doesn't seem conducive to building a core of sustained contenders...

 

Pedro: trade & ring

Schilling: trade & ring

Beckett: trade & ring

ERod: trade & ring

Porcello: trade & ring

Sale: trade & ring

Eovaldi: trade & ring

 

I see a pattern.

[Nick]

Whitlock just dragged his enormous balls out, slapped them on the table and dared the Sox not to start him again

 

Many fans on this board complain about not spending 'real' money to acquire a 'real' starter. Same fans argue Whitlock is more valuable in the pen.

 

I don't f***ing get it.

 

We have a 2nd year pro, who to me matches the command that Maddox of Braves had in 1990's.

 

He's got good stuff to go with his command.

 

Stretch him out for God's sake.

 

Give him the f***ing ball every fifth day and let him start 32 games.

 

Maybe Sale should go to the pen. At this point in his career, he seems more physically frail than say Whitlock.

 

Whitlock is efficient. He has chance to go into 6/7th innings....and if our offense can put up couple of runs, we have chance to win the game.

 

Wake up man. I don't want to hear anyone complain about our starters when we have have a starter hidden in the pen.

[moonslav59]

Many fans on this board complain about not spending 'real' money to acquire a 'real' starter. Same fans argue Whitlock is more valuable in the pen.

 

I don't f***ing get it.

 

We have a 2nd year pro, who to me matches the command that Maddox of Braves had in 1990's.

 

He's got good stuff to go with his command.

 

Stretch him out for God's sake.

 

Give him the f***ing ball every fifth day and let him start 32 games.

 

Maybe Sale should go to the pen. At this point in his career, he seems more physically frail than say Whitlock.

 

Whitlock is efficient. He has chance to go into 6/7th innings....and if our offense can put up couple of runs, we have chance to win the game.

 

Wake up man. I don't want to hear anyone complain about our starters when we have have a starter hidden in the pen.

 

You promise to now not bitch about the pen?

 

(BTW, I wanted Whitlock starting and Houck closing, but once Sale went down, again, the writing was on the wall.)

[notin]

Many fans on this board complain about not spending 'real' money to acquire a 'real' starter. Same fans argue Whitlock is more valuable in the pen.

 

I don't f***ing get it.

 

We have a 2nd year pro, who to me matches the command that Maddox of Braves had in 1990's.

 

He's got good stuff to go with his command.

 

Stretch him out for God's sake.

 

Give him the f***ing ball every fifth day and let him start 32 games.

 

Maybe Sale should go to the pen. At this point in his career, he seems more physically frail than say Whitlock.

 

Whitlock is efficient. He has chance to go into 6/7th innings....and if our offense can put up couple of runs, we have chance to win the game.

 

Wake up man. I don't want to hear anyone complain about our starters when we have have a starter hidden in the pen.

 

Maybe they are stretching him out. The guy has only topped 73 IP once in his career and that was back in A ball in 2018. He followed up in 2019 by getting shut down for Tommy John surgery. So maybe throwing him right into a 150-200IP role right away isn’t the best idea.

 

But the Sox didn’t give him a big extension so he could spend his career in middle relief, either…

Edited April 24, 2022 by notin

[notin]

I get that. I really do, but I just can't see us ever getting to be a top 3-4 contender without adding quality pitching.

 

Maybe, at some point, one of these bargain guys will far exceed expectations and give us what we'd expect from a $17-27M FA starter.

 

Maybe, a prospect will become an ace, or Houck and or Whitlock will.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible to create an excellent rotation without signing or trading for an ace, but that's a lot of hopes and prayers having to come through and soon.

 

 

 

The Sox were in the ALCS last year. By definition, that makes them a top 3-4 contender…

[moonslav59]

The Sox were in the ALCS last year. By definition, that makes them a top 3-4 contender…

 

If you say so.

[jacksonianmarch]

Honestly, I’m wondering if Pivetta might be the odd man out. He has looked awful. Cannot locate in and out of the zone and finds himself giving up too many homers