2022 Spring Training

[dgalehouse]

Annual rite of spring: Early spring training performances, both good and bad, will be given way too much importance by eager fans.

[a700hitter]

I watched him and while I know that this is the proverbial SSS I thought that "horrible" was an understatement. When a pitcher faces five hitters, gets nobody out and all five scored it's had to find good things to say about him

How did Groome look?

[S5Dewey]

How did Groome look?

 

Outstanding! He only pitched one inning (3 hitters, 1K) but IMO he overpowered every batter.

 

However, I temper that with this: I don't know what other teams are doing with their home/away games but with the exception of the first game the Sox are putting 7-8 'regulars' on the field for every home game while the visiting team is sending a bunch of players who are down on their depth chart only 2-4 regulars.

 

The Sox lost to Baltimore (BALTIMORE!) 8-5 yesterday but Kiki was the only player for the Sox who is one of (my definition of) the starting 9. So very possibly the Sox are doing the same thing.

 

A few meaningless ST notes:

If the crowd is any indication RSN is glad to see JBJ back. Every time he gets introduced he gets a loud round of cheering and applause, more than any other player.

 

The Sox signed Story on Wednesday, they played at the O's yesterday and they're on the road again today. I'm hoping to see Story for the first time at JBP tomorrow when they take on Tampa Bay.

 

Because of the shortened ST the Sox are only playing home games with teams that are geographically close to Ft. Myers. The home schedule seems to be a rotation of Tampa Bay (2x), the Braves (2x), and the Twins (4x) with one game each with Baltimore and the Pirates thrown in just for good measure. Oh well, it beats waiting around hoping for positive information from their negotiations - and it is, after all, baseball!

[notin]

Groome should make his debut at some point this year…

[Old Red]

Annual rite of spring: Early spring training performances, both good and bad, will be given way too much importance by eager fans.

 

Yes, and how about Fitzy at 2B? Could have spent that $140M spent on Story on some real pitching instead.

[mvp 78]

Groome should make his debut at some point this year…

 

Maybe? His curveball is what it once was.

[mvp 78]

Yes, and how about Fitzy at 2B? Could have spent that $140M spent on Story on some real pitching instead.

 

Fitzgerald is a backup UTIL guy. He's not good enough to start 140 games at 2b.

[TylerD]

Groome should make his debut at some point this year…

 

Im sure he will

 

Maybe.

[Old Red]

Fitzgerald is a backup UTIL guy. He's not good enough to start 140 games at 2b.

 

It was a comment in jest according to the subject. I was fully aware at 27 Fitzy is nothing more than a utility guy. Having a good ST though.

[Old Red]

Groome should make his debut at some point this year…

 

What ever happened to Trey Ball? He was a #1 too, but never made it.

[mvp 78]

What ever happened to Trey Ball? He was a #1 too, but never made it.

 

Trey Ball was drafted because he was athletic, not because of his actual pitching. Bad pick.

 

Groome already had a devastating curve.

Edited March 25, 2022 by mvp 78

[Bellhorn04]

Im sure he will

 

Maybe.

 

Perfectly stated.

[dgalehouse]

Will Groome be the Best Man?

[mvp 78]

Will Groome be the Best Man?

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Trey Ball was drafted because he was athletic, not because of his actual pitching. Bad pick.

 

Groome already had a devastating curve.

 

Ball was a devastating pick. Sincere post alert...

[mvp 78]

Ball was a devastating pick. Sincere post alert...

 

If they were determined to sign a pitcher, the next few pitchers drafter were:

Phil Bickford - current LA reliever

Braden Shipley - AAA arm

Chris Anderson - retired, no MLB experience

Marco Gonzales - starter for SEA

Jonathon Crawford - retired, no MLB experience

Hunter Harvey - NAT reliever

Chi Chi Gonzales - MIN spot starter, signed to MiLB deal

 

It's a crapshoot.

 

The very next pick was Hunter Dozier. Does having him fix our organization?

[notin]

If they were determined to sign a pitcher, the next few pitchers drafter were:

Phil Bickford - current LA reliever

Braden Shipley - AAA arm

Chris Anderson - retired, no MLB experience

Marco Gonzales - starter for SEA

Jonathon Crawford - retired, no MLB experience

Hunter Harvey - NAT reliever

Chi Chi Gonzales - MIN spot starter, signed to MiLB deal

 

It's a crapshoot.

 

The very next pick was Hunter Dozier. Does having him fix our organization?

 

 

Heck the three pitchers drafted ahead of Ball were Mark Appel, Jon Gray and Kohl Stewart. I think Sox fans overreact to the flop that was the Trey Ball pick as it it was some short of shameful anomaly. It’s the kind of thing that happens multiple times every year…

[Larry Cook]

Heck the three pitchers drafted ahead of Ball were Mark Appel, Jon Gray and Kohl Stewart. I think Sox fans overreact to the flop that was the Trey Ball pick as it it was some short of shameful anomaly. It’s the kind of thing that happens multiple times every year…

 

High school pitchers are a gamble.

[moonslav59]

High school pitchers are a gamble.

 

Our top college pitcher picks (round/overall pick):

 

2003 Abe Alvarez 2/49

2004 Andrew Dobies 3/95

2005 Craig Hansen 1/26

2006 Daniel Bard 1/28

2007 Nick Hagadone 1/55

2008 Bryan Price 1/45

2009 Alex Wilson 2/77

2010 Anthony Ranaudo 1/39

2011 Matt Barnes 1/19

2012 Brian Johnson 1/31

2013 Teddy Stankiewicz 2/43

2014 Jake Cosart 3/103

2015 Travis Lakins 6/171

2016 Shaun Anderson 3/88

2017 Tanner Houck 1/24

2018 Durbin Feltman 3/100

2019 Ryan Zeferjahn 3/107

2020 Jeremy Wu-Yelland 4/118

2021 Wyatt Olda 1/195

 

[Old Red]

Heck the three pitchers drafted ahead of Ball were Mark Appel, Jon Gray and Kohl Stewart. I think Sox fans overreact to the flop that was the Trey Ball pick as it it was some short of shameful anomaly. It’s the kind of thing that happens multiple times every year…

 

It’s not a shameful anomaly to mess up on Ball, but i think it is a bigger deal when you mess up when you draft so many pitchers #1, and they don’t pan out to be any good. It’s not like the Red Sox have the market on home grown talent on their pitching staffs through the years, and that’s why they have to go out, and spend millions on pitching from other teams. How many homegrown pitchers are on the staff right now?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It’s not a shameful anomaly to mess up on Ball, but i think it is a bigger deal when you mess up when you draft so many pitchers #1, and they don’t pan out to be any good. It’s not like the Red Sox have the market on home grown talent on their pitching staffs through the years, and that’s why they have to go out, and spend millions on pitching from other teams. How many homegrown pitchers are on the staff right now?

 

Looking at Moon's list, the highest overall picks were Barnes and Houck; both made the majors with varying levels of success and promise over any of the other lower selections. However, I've wondered for awhile now if it's not just the ratings but how the Sox system fails to properly develop its pitching prospects that is part of the problem.

 

We can't help comparing Boston to Tampa -- which always has an endless supply of young guys who throw 95 with a change-up... but then again, most of those arms are picked off other teams' depth charts in the Rays' constant trade turnover.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The problem with Ball is that before last year, the Sox never picked higher than #7 overall in half a century. So it seemed important to select more of a sure thing, maybe a college position player instead of a kid they weren't even sure was a pitcher or hitter. Someone can probably compile a list of #7 picks this century; there are a lot of good big leaguers, including Benintendi (who helped win a World Series).

[Bellhorn04]

We read a lot on here about all the blunders the Red Sox organization has made.

 

Considering that the Red Sox have the most championships of any team this century, just think of all the blunders the other teams must be making!

[notin]

It’s not a shameful anomaly to mess up on Ball, but i think it is a bigger deal when you mess up when you draft so many pitchers #1, and they don’t pan out to be any good. It’s not like the Red Sox have the market on home grown talent on their pitching staffs through the years, and that’s why they have to go out, and spend millions on pitching from other teams. How many homegrown pitchers are on the staff right now?

 

8 on the 40 man roster.

 

It would have been nice if Ball had even been a middle reliever, but, again, we’re talking about one pick almost 10 years ago. And one failure in only one method of acquiring young pitching.

 

The Sox have acquired numerous other young, cheap, controllable pitchers via other methods (trade, IFA, Rule 5 draft). Is there any difference between drafted pitchers and pitchers acquired by any other method?

 

For years, Sox fans kept crying “we haven’t developed a starter since Lester”. Odd, as it forgets about Buchholz. And also, we had other equivalent (in terms of control, salary, service time, etc.) starters like ERod on the staff serving the exact same purpose.

 

One could argue some of the arms traded away, like Montas, for example, were far more detrimental than not hitting the mark on a single draft pick…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

one failure in only one method of acquiring young pitching.

 

 

You know it's not one failure if you scan Moon's list again. And I don't mean we should load up on high schoolers instead of college arms (Detroit jumped on Jobe at #3, but he's not nearly considered the prospect Leiter is... yet). What we don't know is how much more effective other organizations are in actually developing their pitching prospects.

[notin]

The problem with Ball is that before last year, the Sox never picked higher than #7 overall in half a century. So it seemed important to select more of a sure thing, maybe a college position player instead of a kid they weren't even sure was a pitcher or hitter. Someone can probably compile a list of #7 picks this century; there are a lot of good big leaguers, including Benintendi (who helped win a World Series).

 

But the Ball pick in the grand scheme was meaningless, and there was no need to take a “sure thing”.

 

The same process that decided Ball was a good draft pick also identified Mookie Betts, Travis Shaw, Jarren Duran and Thad Ward in later rounds

[Old Red]

8 on the 40 man roster.

 

It would have been nice if Ball had even been a middle reliever, but, again, we’re talking about one pick almost 10 years ago. And one failure in only one method of acquiring young pitching.

 

The Sox have acquired numerous other young, cheap, controllable pitchers via other methods (trade, IFA, Rule 5 draft). Is there any difference between drafted pitchers and pitchers acquired by any other method?

 

For years, Sox fans kept crying “we haven’t developed a starter since Lester”. Odd, as it forgets about Buchholz. And also, we had other equivalent (in terms of control, salary, service time, etc.) starters like ERod on the staff serving the exact same purpose.

 

One could argue some of the arms traded away, like Montas, for example, were far more detrimental than not hitting the mark on a single draft pick…

 

Why are we only talking about Ball? Houck was a #1 pick, and is a work in progress, who has been very inconsistent up to this point. I hope he turns out to be a good reliable starting pitcher, but at this point he is not. Groome was a #1 pick also, and yes he’s been injured, but at this point the jury is out on him too. There is a difference between a drafted pitcher, and one that comes in a trade. You have to give up something for them, and sometimes they cost more. I don’t really care how many pitchers are on the 40:man, but just what’s on the current big league staff. Like I’ve said before I don’t care about prospects until they are in a Red Sox uniform, and produce, or are used in a trade to get something good back.

[Bellhorn04]

Why are we only talking about Ball? Houck was a #1 pick, and is a work in progress, who has been very inconsistent up to this point.

 

"Very inconsistent."

 

He's pitched in 21 MLB games, with a 2.93 ERA and a 1.08 WHIP.

 

What are you expecting, no-hit bids every time out?

[notin]

"Very inconsistent."

 

He's pitched in 21 MLB games, with a 2.93 ERA and a 1.08 WHIP.

 

What are you expecting, no-hit bids every time out?

 

Not to mention, the entire point with Ball is he was #7 overall and how horrible and “devastating” it was to fail with a pick that high. Houck was 24th. Is missing with tthe 24th pick supposed to be equally devastating?

[Old Red]

"Very inconsistent."

 

He's pitched in 21 MLB games, with a 2.93 ERA and a 1.08 WHIP.

 

What are you expecting, no-hit bids every time out?

 

I was talking more about last year, and especially in Sept, and Oct, which I thought was inconsistent .I like Houck, and no i don’t expect him to come nowhere’s near a no hitter every time out. I just want to see what he does for a full year as a starter.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Old Red